Nikkor Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 On 5/29/2022 at 8:09 AM, IronFilm said: With bonus audio! For err... note taking audio notes existed before RED was even created Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 14 hours ago, Django said: I wouldn't place FX9/FX6/FS7 in the same conversation as RED/ARRI. I did broaden the statement to say not just high end DoPs but "even just your average run of the mill mid tier mid career professional DoP", and if we're not talking about only REDs which are the latest Helium/Monstro/Gemini/etc but even Dragon/MX sensors as well, then FX9/FX6 (and even FS7) are definitely potentially part of the same general conversation. 14 hours ago, Django said: However, Netflix with it's high-resolution requirements has reshuffled the cards and Venice, Varicam & RED have been the popular choice among DoPs. RED has been the choice for many ultra popular shows: Squid Game, Stranger Things, Narcos, Glow, Sabrina.. Army of the Dead, Guardians of Galaxy 2. It's compact size, modularity and high resolution often being the key selling point I agree, Netflix's 4K demands has pushed up the usage of VENICE/Varicam/RED. Is why ARRI had to come out with their LF cameras! (& I think now ARRI is back on top as the most popular choice for Netflix commissioned movies/series?) Will be interesting if VENICE2 / Varicam (where is the successor??) / Raptor etc will be able to grow their market share for their respective companies, once the ARRI S35 4K is out. 14 hours ago, TomTheDP said: Stranger Things Season 4 was shot on the ARRI Alexa LF though. Around me Sony seems to be preferred over RED if ARRI is not in the budget. I am curious, what does a VENICE rent for vs a Mini LF or Mini OG, not sure the exact prices locally, but I looked it up on Lens Rentals and it says: US$2.5K for 7 days for Sony VENICE (slightly more than $2.5K with all the firmware goodies enabled, slightly less than $2.5K if it is without): https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/sony-venice-6k-camera-w-ff-hfr-and-anamorphic-licenses https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/sony-venice-6k-digital-motion-picture-camera Sony VENICE 2 is $3.3K for 7 days: https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/sony-venice-2-8k-digital-motion-picture-camera (for reference, the FX9 goes for $564 and FX6 for $355, mere pennies in comparison! But then again I'm sure deals can be got very very cheap for a VENICE. I know of a TVC I worked on, that was going to shot on the DoP's FX9, but the rental house threw in a VENICE for free with the set of anamorphic lenses they rented) ARRI Mini LF is $2.5K for seven days: https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/arri-alexa-mini-lf-body ARRI Mini is US$2.3K for seven days: https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/arri-alexa-mini-body Hmmm... doesn't seem like there is a budgetary reason to go for Sony VENICE over ARRI after all?? (unless, as I mentioned before, Rental Houses are chucking out some insane deals, even lower than the listed prices. Which is very possible?) Panasonic Varicam LT is silly cheap, $683 for the body for seven days: https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/panasonic-varicam-lt-4k-s35-pl-mount Sony PMW-F5 is $1K for seven days (F55 is $1.9K/7days): https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/sony-pmw-f5-cinealta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 It's funny how Andrew became a RED fanboy the very moment he bought the dragon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 15 hours ago, nathlas said: Sure That's why so many films that costs hundrends of million dollars use them. https://www.red.com/shot-on-red Eh, when you look at the truly high end, the movies which win Oscars and such, then RED is very much underrepresented vs ARRI. And when you look at the overall big big picture of films that are shot (not just only the ones which win Oscars, but say look at everything that is shot with a budget of more than say $5M or $10M), then once again, RED gets shot on "lots", but still RED is very much underrepresented vs ARRI. 2 hours ago, BenEricson said: Here in Seattle it is definitely Arri or Canon. That's about it. Nobody uses Sony. Red gets used more than Sony. I do wonder if it is a little bit of a regional thing, if you have a local region which was very slow off the mark to go from C300mk1 to FS7, then all you need is a few productions to decide upon C300mk2 and thus Canon keeps their grip on the local productions for another generation, then no surprise if now in 2022 that C300mk3/C500mk2 are the preferred cameras. But some other part of the world might have moved quicker away from the C300mk1 which was so popular for a while, to the Sony FS7 (which came out long before the C300mk2), and then if FS7 is everywhere, you'll find it more natural if now in 2022 people are using a FX6/FX9 over anything from Canon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Nikkor said: audio notes existed before RED was even created Yeah, that was kinda my joke. The Nikon D2H for instance came out years before the RED ONE, and the Nikon D2H had voice memo feature. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_D2H Nikkor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 I would be amazed many Indie films are shot with an Arri, hell you could just buy a Red after a few weeks rental. Not like you are only going to shoot one or two films a year as an Indie person. But you know more about that stuff than I do. Way out of my price range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 1 hour ago, webrunner5 said: I would be amazed many Indie films are shot with an Arri, hell you could just buy a Red after a few weeks rental. You'd be amazed how cheaply ARRI cameras can be sourced for by desperate indie filmmakers. I mixed a feature film a few years ago which got an AMIRA "for free" from Panavision. Did a few months ago the sound for a feature film which used an ARRI Mini for all of it, not sure about the exact cost, but based on what I know then I wouldn't be surprised if that was obtained at no cost as well. In fact, I'm nearly certain about that. Plus even if you're paying full rental price (no ULB indie film should ever be doing that, you should either get better connections or/and shoot on an URSA Mini Pro / Pocket 6K Pro instead. Or FS7/FX6/Varicam/etc) then if you're shooting it in a couple of weeks (which an indie film should probably aim for, and not drag out the filming) then that's only $5K of camera rental. What's the best RED you could buy for that? An old RED Epic Dragon perhaps?? Nah, an ARRI is streets ahead better than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathlas Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 7 hours ago, IronFilm said: Eh, when you look at the truly high end, the movies which win Oscars and such, then RED is very much underrepresented vs ARRI. And when you look at the overall big big picture of films that are shot (not just only the ones which win Oscars, but say look at everything that is shot with a budget of more than say $5M or $10M), then once again, RED gets shot on "lots", but still RED is very much underrepresented vs ARRI. Studios are not really wellcoming working their projects on 8k especially for feature films where the files are really enormus. Many studios that priority one for them is giving their films feature proof by having the largest possible resolution prefer using RED for that reason. Since Arri just released their first trully 4k camera and following that rythm they will touch 8k not really soon, RED will continue to play in that field for all those reasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 9 hours ago, IronFilm said: Sony VENICE 2 is $3.3K for 7 days: https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/sony-venice-2-8k-digital-motion-picture-camera (for reference, the FX9 goes for $564 and FX6 for $355, mere pennies in comparison! But then again I'm sure deals can be got very very cheap for a VENICE. I know of a TVC I worked on, that was going to shot on the DoP's FX9, but the rental house threw in a VENICE for free with the set of anamorphic lenses they rented) ARRI Mini LF is $2.5K for seven days: https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/arri-alexa-mini-lf-body ARRI Mini is US$2.3K for seven days: https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/arri-alexa-mini-body Hmmm... doesn't seem like there is a budgetary reason to go for Sony VENICE over ARRI after all?? VENICE is definitely not more affordable than ARRI. Neither retail or rental. VENICE 2 & Mini LF both retail at around $59K. While the Mini is at $36K. What it brings is FF and what it has over Mini LF is few main things: 5.8K90p/6K/8K60p, Dual-Base ISO & Rialto. Rialto is kind of a game changer, allowing the lens to decouple from the body: Ozark DP explains: “VENICE has a smaller footprint. Ozark is a physically difficult show, shot in remote locations, and not on stage. So we needed a camera that could hang off the side of a boat and perform in random scenarios. It’s a great camera for the Steadicam, no question, but it has this great accessory, Rialto, which cables off the body. It provides a package smaller than anything else that’s available. For tight locations, like the Byrd house, there are narrow hallways, so machines, dollies, and multiple actors interacting is tough. With Rialto, you can suspend it off a modest rig, slam it against a wall, allowing actors to pass easily. The smaller presence you can have can only benefit the actors in their ability to forget about production and act.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 59 minutes ago, Django said: Rialto is kind of a game changer, allowing the lens to decouple from the body Yeah I worked on a Netflix show where they had the VENICE head on a gimbal for the cam op, while a grip walked closely behind with the VENICE body in a backpack. But anyway, ARRI did this before Sony!! 😉 With their ARRI ALEXA M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpc Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 5 hours ago, IronFilm said: Yeah I worked on a Netflix show where they had the VENICE head on a gimbal for the cam op, while a grip walked closely behind with the VENICE body in a backpack. But anyway, ARRI did this before Sony!! 😉 With their ARRI ALEXA M Dunno what's a game changer, but almost 15 years ago the SI2k Mini was winning people Academy awards for cinematography. Incidentally, the SI2k is a camera that's relevant in this thread for other reasons. 🙂 PannySVHS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 Also, Cesar Charlone put the SI2K to some of its coolest uses with his infamous impeccable EVF style. @cpc 🙂 webrunner5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTheDP Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 that camera looks insane kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathlas Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 15 hours ago, Django said: What it brings is FF and what it has over Mini LF is few main things: 5.8K90p/6K/8K60p, Dual-Base ISO & Rialto. Rialto is kind of a game changer, allowing the lens to decouple from the body: Αrri has done that before bring Alexa mini. Noone liked that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 6 hours ago, nathlas said: Αrri has done that before bring Alexa mini. Noone liked that I have an enduring interest in tiny cameras with high image quality and every now and then I see a BTS with an odd compact camera in it, and it is often the head of the Venice mounted somewhere and connected by its umbilical cable. I would think it's too common a requirement, but it's not too uncommon either? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTheDP Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 1 hour ago, kye said: I have an enduring interest in tiny cameras with high image quality and every now and then I see a BTS with an odd compact camera in it, and it is often the head of the Venice mounted somewhere and connected by its umbilical cable. I would think it's too common a requirement, but it's not too uncommon either? It's definitely a nice feature. However it becomes outdated as soon as the camera body gets small enough to not need it, which happened with the Alexa mini. I am honestly not quite sure why there isn't a smaller version of the Venice. The RED Monstro body, which does 8k RAW, is under 4 pounds. Less than half the weight of the Venice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 8 hours ago, TomTheDP said: It's definitely a nice feature. However it becomes outdated as soon as the camera body gets small enough to not need it, which happened with the Alexa mini. I am honestly not quite sure why there isn't a smaller version of the Venice. The RED Monstro body, which does 8k RAW, is under 4 pounds. Less than half the weight of the Venice. There are still some applications that need to go smaller still.... https://ymcinema.com/2022/05/16/meet-the-cockpit-lens-behind-top-gun-maverick/ I don't think you're getting 4 Alexa Mini bodies into the cockpit of a fighter jet, for example. Besides, the smaller they make the whole camera, the smaller they could make the detachable head, and therefore the smaller the places they could get it compared to the body. webrunner5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTheDP Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 1 hour ago, kye said: There are still some applications that need to go smaller still.... https://ymcinema.com/2022/05/16/meet-the-cockpit-lens-behind-top-gun-maverick/ I don't think you're getting 4 Alexa Mini bodies into the cockpit of a fighter jet, for example. Besides, the smaller they make the whole camera, the smaller they could make the detachable head, and therefore the smaller the places they could get it compared to the body. Very niche. A more practical example of usage is just to make the rigs smaller. But dealing with a smaller body without cables is just easier. kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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