Alexa Classic vs RED Komodo

[Django]

Yeah those specs don't cover the high frame rate drop in resolution and crop factor Kye was talking about.

15 hours ago, kye said:

One gotcha from the Komodo is the cropping for alternative resolutions and higher frame rates - not sure if that's an issue for you, and I can't recall if it also afflicts the C70?  I don't think I ever got a straight answer on if the Komodo could shoot Prores at lower resolutions by downscaling internally, which might be worth considering if you're not always shooting 6K.

 

You can do up to 6K40fps without a crop/res drop and that's actually pretty ok with me. The 2K120p has a 3x crop (on top of the Super35 crop) which seems barely useable. The C70 can do up to 4K120p no crop.

The real tricky part is that any drop in resolution from 6K automatically means a crop. Meaning shooting 4K has a crop and I don't know about any downscaling either. Basically it's really a 6K40p camera. Not the most flexible but that's ok.

Audio is also something I'm concerned with. It only has a 3.5mm input. So its mirrorless type audio unless you go external which in run & gun isn't so practical.

I'm also eyeing the FX6. The fact that it is full-frame, has XLRs and the E-ND really appeals to me.

Still something about the Komodo's 6K R3D Raw IQ I can't shake off, like I really really want that quality in my arsenal.

15 hours ago, kye said:

From what I've read the Achilles heel of the C70 is the screen, which if you were planning to use it with an external monitor would close the gap between the two in terms of rigging etc.  Personally, For run-n-gun stuff I always keep the camera rigged up and ready to go if possible.  I know lots of shooters will tear their rig down for flights etc, but will build out the rig prior to the shoot days and have a bag or case that can take it rigged up and they'll use that to transport it to the shoot location so there's no rigging occurring on set.  I'm lucky with my smaller setups, but I'd be shifting that stuff away from shoot days if at all possible.

The C70 screen is fine in itself, the hinge however is dodgy but Canon will replace and upgrade it if it does fail. So not really a big concern imo. C70/FX6 definitely have the upper hand when it comes to a pretty much rig free ready to shoot solution.

I travel by train/plane for a good chunk of my shoots so yes I tear down the rig for transport which fortunately isn't very complex with the R6 or even the FS7. With the Komodo, I'd probably go with this quite affordable Tilta solution:

I plan on using the top display and the remote iOS app for run & gun monitoring. I wanna avoid rigging an external monitor for weight and balance purposes on solo shoots. For bigger crew shoots SDI out and/or wireless. 

 

[webrunner5]

https://lowepost.com/insider/videogear/build-the-perfect-red-komodo-camera-rig-r63/

[Django]

Yeah I've been to that page actually and have watched countless Komodo rig videos on YT. 

While if I go the Komodo route, I will eventually trick it out, initially chances are I'll be pretty broke from the body purchase alone so won't have a real big budget for rigging!

And while some on YT claim you'll need to spend thousands extra to have it ready for action, that simply isn't true. Power & storage is all you need to go bare bones, and both are inexpensive. Add the 200 buck Tilta kit and I'm good to go.

The official RED side grip is $579 and the RED endorsed 2-channel preamp is $499. Just to give an example of what "recommended" rig accessories go for. I'll probably get them too at some point, just not initially while I recoup from the investment.

On another note, just saw this video:

The R5C does remarkably well, that said there is just something about that Komodo image that is more filmic than the Canon. It may not come through entirely on compressed YT but in Davinci on my 5K monitor its super obvious. 

The ISOless RAW nature of the files is also something very interesting. The highlight rolloff and latitude when adjusting ISO in post is unlike any RAW format I've worked with before. It defies lab tests, the resulting imagery has so much mojo. Apparently RED developed a special highlight rolloff in-cam algorithm and the Komodo is their first cam to have it. Not sure what kind of voodoo science they've got cooked up there but let's just say I'm kind of converted. Seeing is believing lol!

[webrunner5]

Yes, I have seen some Really good footage from it. It seems like the way to go if you are serious about video and have the money. But if you are sort of serious you should be able to make money with it so it is not that bad maybe in the long run.

And just about every client knows about a Red camera, so that would help also make a person able to charge a bit more.

[kye]

6 hours ago, Django said:

Yeah those specs don't cover the high frame rate drop in resolution and crop factor Kye was talking about.

You can do up to 6K40fps without a crop/res drop and that's actually pretty ok with me. The 2K120p has a 3x crop (on top of the Super35 crop) which seems barely useable. The C70 can do up to 4K120p no crop.

The real tricky part is that any drop in resolution from 6K automatically means a crop. Meaning shooting 4K has a crop and I don't know about any downscaling either. Basically it's really a 6K40p camera. Not the most flexible but that's ok.

Audio is also something I'm concerned with. It only has a 3.5mm input. So its mirrorless type audio unless you go external which in run & gun isn't so practical.

I'm also eyeing the FX6. The fact that it is full-frame, has XLRs and the E-ND really appeals to me.

Still something about the Komodo's 6K R3D Raw IQ I can't shake off, like I really really want that quality in my arsenal.

The C70 screen is fine in itself, the hinge however is dodgy but Canon will replace and upgrade it if it does fail. So not really a big concern imo. C70/FX6 definitely have the upper hand when it comes to a pretty much rig free ready to shoot solution.

I travel by train/plane for a good chunk of my shoots so yes I tear down the rig for transport which fortunately isn't very complex with the R6 or even the FS7. With the Komodo, I'd probably go with this quite affordable Tilta solution:

I plan on using the top display and the remote iOS app for run & gun monitoring. I wanna avoid rigging an external monitor for weight and balance purposes on solo shoots. For bigger crew shoots SDI out and/or wireless. 

 

This video confirms that it doesn't crop in Prores for 24fps and will downsample in-camera - I linked to the relevant time:

The caveat is that this only applies at normal speeds (he says 24p) but that makes sense as I don't think it can read the whole sensor faster than the 40p and might not be able to downsample above normal frame rates either.

How much slow motion do you do?  

The C70 certainly has some very usable options, and Canon sure know how to make a cinema camera, so the C70 comes from a long line of expertise so hasn't got any excuses beyond any dents from the cripple hammer that might exist.

If I was to ever end up with a Komodo I'd be rigging it with the external batteries and lens and using the LCD as well.  Did you see the Hassleblad Medium Format viewfinder attachment for the top LCD?  That looks super useful and something I'd consider.

[Ryan Earl]

On 8/10/2022 at 7:26 PM, kye said:

If I was to ever end up with a Komodo I'd be rigging it with the external batteries and lens and using the LCD as well

 

On 8/10/2022 at 3:17 PM, Django said:

And while some on YT claim you'll need to spend thousands extra to have it ready for action, that simply isn't true. Power & storage is all you need to go bare bones, and both are inexpensive. Add the 200 buck Tilta kit and I'm good to go.

I've been using the Komodo for the past 6 weeks or so bare bones as a B cam for corporate.  I mostly leave the Canon 35mm F2 IS on it and sometimes a 100mm Macro.  It really is nice to use, even for corporate where it's just set up for another angle.  The battery life on 2x Canon BP-975 is actually pretty stellar.  I think I've gotten almost the full advertised 6 hours of run time.  The file sizes are decent and the quality is high and malleable even in 6K LQ.  

The little LCD is really usable and I haven't blown any exposures because of the traffic light system and the color reproduction is excellent with RED's lut or the REC709 decode for quicker projects.  

I'm going to add the RED handle and a 5" monitor for when I want to get the camera up for higher angles.  

On 8/10/2022 at 3:17 PM, Django said:

The highlight rolloff and latitude when adjusting ISO in post is unlike any RAW format I've worked with before. It defies lab tests, the resulting imagery has so much mojo. Apparently RED developed a special highlight rolloff in-cam algorithm and the Komodo is their first cam to have it. Not sure what kind of voodoo science they've got cooked up there but let's just say I'm kind of converted. Seeing is believing lol!

The internet tests show it with a dynamic range lower than the manufacturer's claims but I don't feel like I need anymore then they are delivering.  The roll off is just really nice.  The images hardly need any work.  Everything they've done with the image quality makes the price justified over the $2,000 - $4,000 range cameras for me.  Though financing it is another thing. . .

[TomTheDP]

Didn't see a lot of these replies on this thread until now. 

There is definitely something special about RED and ARRI. 

After having used the Komodo more it actually makes me love more what the Alexa does. The simplicity of Prores and their 709 lut is unmatched.

Most people can't or won't want to handle the onset workflow that an Alexa Classic requires. That being said ARRI simply isn't an option for most. I personally think the Komodo can work for just about anything. It is small enough and power efficient enough to be run and gun friendly. I suppose for event type work the FX6 would still crush it though. 

[independent]

For run and gun, Komodo is best with an AC, since the autofocus is not as developed as Canon and Sony's. However, on the upside, you can use the link adapter to monitor w/ your phone with minimal lag, and your entire crew can monitor on their phones/iPads over wifi, within a reasonable distance. 

Definitely global shutter and patent on compressed raw 🖕help the image. 

You can strip down the camera with just a wingtip and a M-mount lens for very low key shooting, although you can rule out the slim BP915 batteries—you won't be able to turn the camera back on after 20 minutes. 

[TomTheDP]

58 minutes ago, independent said:

For run and gun, Komodo is best with an AC, since the autofocus is not as developed as Canon and Sony's. However, on the upside, you can use the link adapter to monitor w/ your phone with minimal lag, and your entire crew can monitor on their phones/iPads over wifi, within a reasonable distance. 

Definitely global shutter and patent on compressed raw 🖕help the image. 

You can strip down the camera with just a wingtip and a M-mount lens for very low key shooting, although you can rule out the slim BP915 batteries—you won't be able to turn the camera back on after 20 minutes. 

I guess it depends how run and gun the job is. I always manual focus but I am probably behind the times.