How to make RAW-like corrections to 10bit log in silly old Premiere

[hyalinejim]

I've long been a fan of 10bit log because of how far it can be pushed without falling apart. However, I still use Premiere for all of my jobs. This is because I'm used to it, have old projects that I often need to incorporate in new ones and sometimes I need to be able to talk nicely to After Effects and Photoshop. I don't mind editing in it. But colour correction sucks for log footage. The Lumetri controls are designed to work on God knows what gamma. It's OK-ish for making luminance adjustments to log gammas (still not by any means perfect) but trying to white balance accurately is basically impossible. The highlights will be over corrected and the shadows undercorrected.

For a while, for critical colour work I had been pasting Premiere timelines into After Effects in order to use an ACES worfklow there using the OpenColorIO plugin. The advantage of working in ACES space is that you can adjust exposure, contrast and colour globally across the luminance range. If you're used to using the White Balance, Exposure and Contrast sliders in Lightroom for photo editing then basically you can do the same thing very easily in ACES colour space. Finally, and thanks in part to a post on the Sigma FP thread I've found a way to do something similar in Premiere.

Here's how to do it. You'll need a free copy of Resolve for this.

Create a Resolve project with these settings and add a clip:

 

Add Color Space Transform effect to a node and set the input to the gamut and gamma of your log footage. Then right click the CLIP thumbnail and generate a 3D lut (65 point). This lut will transform your log footage into an ACES-like condition:

 

Now add a second node and add a Color Space Transform effect. This time the color spaces and gammas are reversed. This gets your footage back to log. Our corrections will go between these two transformations. Disable the first node (or delete it) and generate a second lut:

 

Now in Premiere add the following effects:

 

The first lut, Log to ACES, goes in the first instance of Lumetri (you'll have to find it in the Effects Panel and drag it to the clip. Don't go into the Color workspace as we'll need two instance of Lumetri)
The second lut is ACES to Log and that goes in the second instance of Lumetri (if you put this in the Basic lut slot you can put a log to Rec709 in the Creative lut slot)
Between the two add brightness and contrast. +15 brightness units is one stop.
Also add the obsolete Fast Color Corrector. This simple colour wheel will do all your white balancing for you. There's even a white balance dropper if you need it. The wheel is very sensitive, though, so I lower the Balance Gain to 2 to make it less sensitive.

If you have a nice lut that you like for your log footage then this is all you need to colour correct very, very quickly in Premiere. White balance, exposure, contrast. Done! Next!

I'll post some examples of saving poorly exposed and white balanced shots when I have time.

Premiere stupidly doesn't allow you to save the four effects as a single preset, but you can save the first lumetri as a preset, the two middle effects as a preset, and the last lumetri as a preset. I would love to not use Lumetri at all for this, but can't find a simple "Apply Color LUT" effect like there is in After Effects. Does anyone know of one?

[MrSMW]

Another Premiere user also because I don’t embrace change unless I have to.

It’s possibly/probably why I have never got along with log because try as I might, I can’t get it anywhere near as nice as I can near enough SOOC using a profile.

Whether that was Eterna with Fuji or up to now, Natural with Panny. Though switching to Flat now as after some further play and based on someone else’s editing on The Toob, was convinced to give it a go.

Log is just one big PITFA for me.

I may give it a go and with Da Vinci Resolve right at the back end of my season, but right now, nah.

[hyalinejim]

Actually, I think I made a mistake regarding the colour space. In the Resolve colour space transform effects, all colour space drop down boxes should be at Rec709, otherwise the colours go wonky.

[kye]

@hyalinejim Have you confirmed this works?

I thought LUTs ignored OFX plugins?  I've tried creating LUTs before with it and the OFX plugins were ignored and the LUTs weren't usable because of this.

[hyalinejim]

10 hours ago, kye said:

@hyalinejim Have you confirmed this works?

I thought LUTs ignored OFX plugins?  I've tried creating LUTs before with it and the OFX plugins were ignored and the LUTs weren't usable because of this.

Yes, it works! At least for the workflow I'm describing. All of the below are GH5 V-Log with a lut applied (open in separate tabs to compare):

 

Target image, roughly correct exposure and WB.

 

Wrong image, 3 stops underexposed and wrong white balance.

 

Wrong image corrected with exposure and white balance adjustments within Lumetri, under the lut, so that patch D4 matches the target image. Note that contrast has changed and there are colour is off in the shadows and highlights.


Wrong image corrected as described above. Contrast is correct and colour is almost perfect (I think some colour information is clipped in the underexposure and cannot be recovered from the noise floor).

[FHDcrew]

Man this is huge. I loved this style of functionality in Davinci, in Davinci you can use the HDR “global” slider and set color space/gamma to your log curve, giving very accurate exposure adjustments in post. Works well for my Z6 as N-log has no native ACES support. This is HUGE for premiere pro users and makes lumetri much more viable. Resolve is still a better grading software though :)

[kye]

26 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

Yes, it works! At least for the workflow I'm describing. All of the below are GH5 V-Log with a lut applied (open in separate tabs to compare):

 

Target image, roughly correct exposure and WB.

 

Wrong image, 3 stops underexposed and wrong white balance.

 

Wrong image corrected with exposure and white balance adjustments within Lumetri, under the lut, so that patch D4 matches the target image. Note that contrast has changed and there are colour is off in the shadows and highlights.


Wrong image corrected as described above. Contrast is correct and colour is almost perfect (I think some colour information is clipped in the underexposure and cannot be recovered from the noise floor).

Awesome!

Maybe it's a newer version of Resolve - I tried exposing a power grade to a LUT and it failed because it ignored the CST OFX plugin, and surprisingly, it didn't work right without that CST in the middle of it!!

7 minutes ago, FHDcrew said:

Man this is huge. I loved this style of functionality in Davinci, in Davinci you can use the HDR “global” slider and set color space/gamma to your log curve, giving very accurate exposure adjustments in post. Works well for my Z6 as N-log has no native ACES support. This is HUGE for premiere pro users and makes lumetri much more viable. Resolve is still a better grading software though 🙂

Resolve is better, no doubt.  However, you can do a huge amount even with basic tools, so there's no excuses 🙂 

[FHDcrew]

For sure. Will be useful technique if I need to use premiere for future jobs. Which I think I will need to do. But I am holding on to resolve for as much as I can. It’s just amazing what resolve can do

[hyalinejim]

I would love to be in Resolve 100% of the time but I'm too tied in to Premiere to switch, at least for work stuff. Sometimes I get asked to incorporate bits from an old video by a client. So I have projects within projects within projects sometimes. 

The other great thing is bringing print material from designers from Illustrator and InDesign into After Effects and eventually into a video.

 

[herein2020]

16 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

I would love to be in Resolve 100% of the time but I'm too tied in to Premiere to switch, at least for work stuff. Sometimes I get asked to incorporate bits from an old video by a client. So I have projects within projects within projects sometimes. 

The other great thing is bringing print material from designers from Illustrator and InDesign into After Effects and eventually into a video.

 

So glad I was able to 100% ditch Premier years ago, DR feels light years ahead of it to me by now. i am still looking for a Lightroom replacement, if I can find one, I'll finally be done with Adobe for good. It never ceases to amaze me that no one has been able to beat Lightroom yet.

[kye]

1 minute ago, herein2020 said:

So glad I was able to 100% ditch Premier years ago, DR feels light years ahead of it to me by now. i am still looking for a Lightroom replacement, if I can find one, I'll finally be done with Adobe for good. It never ceases to amaze me that no one has been able to beat Lightroom yet.

There seem to be some discussions appearing now about using Resolve to edit stills.  This thread on the colourist forums has one such discussion.

I haven't tried it myself, as I no longer do stills basically, but I'll admit that Resolve isn't that intuitive a tool for working with stills and the associated workflows.

[herein2020]

7 hours ago, kye said:

There seem to be some discussions appearing now about using Resolve to edit stills.  This thread on the colourist forums has one such discussion.

I haven't tried it myself, as I no longer do stills basically, but I'll admit that Resolve isn't that intuitive a tool for working with stills and the associated workflows.

I actually did watch a video on it, as much as I like Resolve, no way would it work for me with stills. Just because a program has the ability to do something doesn't mean the inefficiencies incurred while doing so would make it worth it in the end. After major events such as fashion shows, I need to cull over 2000 pictures quickly and process about 600-800 within a few hrs, no way would Resolve be able to support that workflow.

Also, for Real Estate, pretty complex retouching is required to get top quality results due to the DR limitations of modern cameras, Resolve would be a nightmare to try to replicate what I can do in a few seconds in PS.

[kye]

58 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

I actually did watch a video on it, as much as I like Resolve, no way would it work for me with stills. Just because a program has the ability to do something doesn't mean the inefficiencies incurred while doing so would make it worth it in the end. After major events such as fashion shows, I need to cull over 2000 pictures quickly and process about 600-800 within a few hrs, no way would Resolve be able to support that workflow.

Also, for Real Estate, pretty complex retouching is required to get top quality results due to the DR limitations of modern cameras, Resolve would be a nightmare to try to replicate what I can do in a few seconds in PS.

Yeah, it's definitely lacking the sorting and retouching parts and if you have a few images would be a reasonable alternative for Lightroom, but absolutely not for Photoshop.

[FHDcrew]

Looks like I’ve reached the point where premiere will be a necessity for some work I do 😞

 

So now I gotta break away from resolve a bit and start learning premiere. I’ll still color in resolve, though this exposure technique first mentioned in this thread will be very useful for quick grades in premiere. Honestly with this, along with turning CST into a LUT, I could probably replicate my grading process in premiere. I don’t do any complex grades, I simply like the organization and behavior of the tools available in resolve. 

[kye]

7 hours ago, FHDcrew said:

Looks like I’ve reached the point where premiere will be a necessity for some work I do 😞

 

So now I gotta break away from resolve a bit and start learning premiere. I’ll still color in resolve, though this exposure technique first mentioned in this thread will be very useful for quick grades in premiere. Honestly with this, along with turning CST into a LUT, I could probably replicate my grading process in premiere. I don’t do any complex grades, I simply like the organization and behavior of the tools available in resolve. 

Just kidding...  🙂

My understanding is that Premier is probably still a better editor than Resolve (although Resolve is closing the gap) and that the main issue with Premier is that it crashes all the time.  Save early, save often.

In terms of colour though, we all love to think that the 5,984 controls that Resolve has are required for good colour, but it's not true - if you get the basics dialled in then you can get great looking images with the tools that basically any NLE has.

[FHDcrew]

1 hour ago, kye said:

Just kidding...  🙂

My understanding is that Premier is probably still a better editor than Resolve (although Resolve is closing the gap) and that the main issue with Premier is that it crashes all the time.  Save early, save often.

In terms of colour though, we all love to think that the 5,984 controls that Resolve has are required for good colour, but it's not true - if you get the basics dialled in then you can get great looking images with the tools that basically any NLE has.

Good stuff Kye 😂 

I’ve sent you an invitation to attend the funeral of Mr. Resolve Workflow 😂 

JK…but yeah I mean I’m glad I started in resolve, because it’s how I learned the foundation of my color grading skills (however much they may be lacking lol).  Had I started in premiere I most likely would not have learned to color in resolve.  One thing I’m doing is remapping the premiere shortcuts to what I’m used to in resolve, to take advantage of the muscle memory I’ve already built up.  Do you think it is worthwhile to learn the default premiere keys, instead of remapping to what i am used to?

 

[FHDcrew]

It is helpful that all the editing skills I learned in resolve are transferable to premiere. I’m finding the switch fairly easy so far. Just a bunch of googling on “how to do *resolve_edit_button* in premiere”

[kye]

25 minutes ago, FHDcrew said:

Good stuff Kye 😂 

I’ve sent you an invitation to attend the funeral of Mr. Resolve Workflow 😂 

JK…but yeah I mean I’m glad I started in resolve, because it’s how I learned the foundation of my color grading skills (however much they may be lacking lol).  Had I started in premiere I most likely would not have learned to color in resolve.  One thing I’m doing is remapping the premiere shortcuts to what I’m used to in resolve, to take advantage of the muscle memory I’ve already built up.  Do you think it is worthwhile to learn the default premiere keys, instead of remapping to what i am used to?

I'm no expert, as I only know Resolve, but from my understanding its normally worth investing in things like shortcuts as they'll pay off in the long-term.  

In terms of learning Premier shortcuts vs customising them, I'd suggest reviewing the Premier ones and seeing if they suit your workflow.  The problem in editing that no-one talks about is workflow and how some peoples workflows are very very different.

Some examples:

• Do you add all your clips into a timeline, then make selects by removing the material that is no good (bad takes etc), or do you review the material from the Bins and add the good stuff?  Fundamentally different shortcuts and even mindset.
   
• For larger non-linear projects, do you sort your selects into timelines (eg, b-roll by location, interviews, events, etc) or do you do this filtering via tagging and metadata and not via timelines at all?  My understanding is that Premier and FCPX have much more power in their media management (like tagging etc) than Resolve, which is why editors don't think Resolve isn't really "ready" for big projects yet.
   
• Do you build your final edit by a subtractive or additive way?  ie, do you pick all the good bits and pull them into a timeline, then cull and re-arrange and tighten in passes until you're done, or do you just pull in the absolute best bits and add and re-arrange things until you're done.  If its the former then you'll spend a lot of time looking at clips that will eventually get cut (if a clip makes it through many passes and gets cut at the last minute), but once you've cut something you're unlikely to ever look at it again.  
  Alternatively, if you add the good stuff then you'll potentially be reviewing your entire collection of clips every time you want to find the next clip to add.  If your media is well curated (metadata, tagging, etc) then this can be an efficient process but if not you could get lost forever as there's no guarantee that you're making progress.
   
• When you're making an edit, do you want to move the timing of the edit point to suit the content of the clips or do you want to change the content of the clips around a fixed timed edit point?  If you were editing dialogue you'd do the first but if you were editing to music you'd do the second - fundamentally different shortcuts and thinking.
   
• When you're editing, are you concentrating on the edit point, or the clip?  For example, if you're looking at the edit point then the Clip End will be of one clip and the Clip Start will be of the next clip - so the editor will be focusing on editing two clips at once.  If you're in a clip focussed approach, Clip Start and Clip End will be of the same clip.  I hit this issue in Resolve as I edit in a clip-centric way and edit to music but some of the Speed Editor controls (very handy ones I might add) are in a edit-point-centric way, and there's no way to change this.

etc...

The other thing to realise is that there are many small tasks that must be done in an NLE, and the different editors may have different ways of doing them.  It's easy to compare shortcuts, but it might be that to accomplish that outcome in one NLE can be done at (potentially) a fraction of the time by using one mindset over another.  This is the hidden aspect of NLEs - they are designed to edit in a particular way and may be less efficient to be used in another way (or may not really support that other approach at all).  

Obviously this is very personal to what you edit, how you edit, how large the projects are, etc, so the answer ultimately can only be determined by you, but don't only learn how Premier can do what Resolve can do, try to learn what Premier can do that Resolve can't do.

[webrunner5]

Get one of those keyboard overlays and that will speed up your shortcuts.

[FHDcrew]

The transition is going well so far; I’m able to do some basic stuff in premiere, a few projects down the line with some googling I should have a decent enough understanding of the program. Over time I’ll get better with the hopes of knowing premiere end-to-end later on. And I did decide that for the most part, other than some very small tweaks I will embrace the default premiere shortcuts. Thus I can have consistency if I have to edit on a computer not my own. Question: any good premiere-style keyboard mappings for resolve?  Blackmagic’s included mappings do not seem accurate. I’d like to have consistency across both programs since I plan to keep using resolve for grading, and also some editing projects.