APS-C vs FF: a hybrid camera for 1000-1250 EUR (used)

[webrunner5]

My suggestion, buy a Blackmagic PK4 for video and a Olympus E-M1 mk II for photos. Problem solved. You can use the same lenses for both.

[TomTheDP]

The FUJI is great for photos. Would definitely take it over a Sony.

You can get a lens turbo focal reducer which I have found to be very nice for like $100. Only way I'd go Sony is for auto focus if you want that.

[webrunner5]

The Fuji has No IBIS, that is a total deal breaker for a photo camera.

[TomTheDP]

3 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

The Fuji has No IBIS, that is a total deal breaker for a photo camera.

for you

[webrunner5]

5 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

for you

This is not 2012 Tom. People do not use tripods for photos anymore. And Fuji has the worse lens line up for video there is. And adopted lens always suck compared to factory ones. Plus he doesn't have the budget for Fuji Lenses.

[TomTheDP]

10 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

This is not 2012 Tom. People do not use tripods for photos anymore. And Fuji has the worse lens line up for video there is.

You don't need tripods unless shooting on long lenses. Most wedding photographers are still using DSLR's with no IBIS and no tripods.

OP didn't say he was shooting birds on 300mm lenses. I don't think he is gonna be shooting his child 3 blocks down the street.

Fuji is my go to choice for family stuff. Small and nice looking images/video. Not great for narrative as there is no 12 bit option but for family stuff it's great.

[IronFilm]

29 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

The Fuji has No IBIS, that is a total deal breaker for a photo camera.

And yet, not a single Canon/Nikon/Sony DSLR on the planet has IBIS. 

[MrSMW]

"help me choose a hybrid camera for amateur use - family and travel"

So many seem to answer these questions as what they would buy rather than reading what the OP's actual requirements are...

He's not shooting a Netflix series. He's not shooting plastic bags on the moon. He just wants something decent to document his life and kids.

Personally...if it was me...I'd just get a decent phone and be done with it.

Great video, great pics, great connectivity, have it with you at all times.

But otherwise, one camera, one lens, not a unit for video and another for photography and then what happens if while in the park, you do get asked to shoot a movie because Villeneuve called in sick? I reckon nothing less than that new Arri is going to cut it...

[Django]

Everybody's got a decent smartphone these days. I can understand wanting something superior even if your an amateur shooting family & travel. He's got a Contax Zeiss 50mm F1.4 that's one of my favourite lenses in the world, lets cut the guy some slack. I maintain that a Sony A7III is probably the best suited choice. It's not a camera I would ever buy but within that budget and his requirements it totally makes sense.

As for IBIS, its totally unnecessary for your regular point & shoot photography needs. That said, for video it can really help for locked handheld shots. The tiny XT3 will produce shaky handheld footage. I'd recommend an XH1 over it for the IBIS alone if going the Fuji route. Cheaper too. 

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

And yet, not a single Canon/Nikon/Sony DSLR on the planet has IBIS. 

And hardly anyone uses one today either.

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

Personally...if it was me...I'd just get a decent phone and be done with it.

Or perhaps a Sony RX10mk2, goes for $500ish on eBay secondhand. 

Simple, compact, all in one, camera that does it all. 

Panasonic FZ1000 is another to consider, even cheaper. 

Covers the main situations which a smartphone does not: when you need lots more reach.  

8 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

And hardly anyone uses one today either.

Any semipro/pro Canon/Sony/Nikon/Pentax DSLR from the last decade still puts more power in a person's hands than 99% of people are capable of fully uralitizing. 

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

"help me choose a hybrid camera for amateur use - family and travel"

So many seem to answer these questions as what they would buy rather than reading what the OP's actual requirements are...

He's not shooting a Netflix series. He's not shooting plastic bags on the moon. He just wants something decent to document his life and kids.

Personally...if it was me...I'd just get a decent phone and be done with it.

Great video, great pics, great connectivity, have it with you at all times.

But otherwise, one camera, one lens, not a unit for video and another for photography and then what happens if while in the park, you do get asked to shoot a movie because Villeneuve called in sick? I reckon nothing less than that new Arri is going to cut it...

And I told him in the beginning to just buy a late model Smartphone that does all as you say also. They have reached a point that in a lot of circumstances now they are better than a high end camera. They have Really moved ahead as of late.  Other than long reach stuff I see no reason to own a real camera anymore for what he is asking to do. And now that applies to about 98% of all people or more.

My Sony Xperia Pro-I puts my Olympus to shame in everyway other than telephoto stuff and maybe DoF at times. It is not even close anymore.

[Django]

smartphones are still terrible at low light. all that AI stuff is horrible. shooting manual is cumbersome.

I mean I get it, they're great point & shoots for daytime snapshots posted on social media. We use them for that every day.

But if you're actually a fan of photography as an art and character lenses I'd still recommend even the most cheap oldest DSLR/MILC.

[webrunner5]

16 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Or perhaps a Sony RX10mk2, goes for $500ish on eBay secondhand. 

Simple, compact, all in one, camera that does it all. 

Panasonic FZ1000 is another to consider, even cheaper. 

Covers the main situations which a smartphone does not: when you need lots more reach.  

Any semipro/pro Canon/Sony/Nikon/Pentax DSLR from the last decade still puts more power in a person's hands than 99% of people are capable of fully uralitizing. 

I have a Canon 1DC I know what a good Canon can do, and it weighs a freaking ton, the good lenses are HUGE and you stick out like a sore thumb using it. And in reality it produces not much better photo output than my phone. Video sure it is great but a total pain in the ass to use with no AF and using live view with no waveform, histogram on and on. 

My phone can shoot Raw video, it can shoot photos at 20fps, HDR, HLG, .264, .265 video, shoots DNG files, has 3 built in lenses, IBIS, 4k OLED 10 bit screen @120 hertz, Venice CS, on and on. DSLR's are a Dinosaur.

[webrunner5]

7 minutes ago, Django said:

smartphones are still terrible at low light. all that AI stuff is horrible. shooting manual is cumbersome.

 

You are just spreading a bullshit opinion.  This forum has become a place for a lot of total misinformation. It is becoming embarrassing. A lot of the new ones are better at low light than real cameras. The Apple iPhone 13 Pro and the Samsung Ultra 22 are great at low light.

[Django]

@webrunner5 I have an iPhone 13 lol.. night mode just uses slow exposure trickery, nothing revolutionary.. but hey let me lift that 1DC paper weight artefact off your shoulders, I will give it a good home I promise !

[MrSMW]

32 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Or perhaps a Sony RX10mk2, goes for $500ish on eBay secondhand. 

Simple, compact, all in one, camera that does it all. 

Another good option.

I had one that I used for a year (personal use) for photo and video but replaced it with an RX100v which had the same sensor, a faster lens (at least at the wide end) and is one of very few cameras you really can stick in your pocket.

I have used one to make entire wedding films...but it did tend to overheat a bit in the Summer of SW France so kept having to take breaks!

I have the ZV1 which is essentially the same thing, just slightly more video-orientated and again, it's a great bit of kit.

I use that for mostly video back up at weddings, - full length ceremony and speeches, on a tripod running off a power bank. Has not overheated once, even last week rolling for over 30 mins non stop, in direct sunshine, 40c/104f in the shade.

But for personal use? Used it once. Phone every time and mine is only an iPhone 8 plus.

Looking at a 12 regular size whatever it's called. Mini I like but doesn't have the extra longer lens and the 13 is still too pricey, but a refurbed 12 would suit me well I think.

I'm not an Apple fanboy but can't be bothered to switch away from anything not Apple as I've had 5, 7, currently 8, ipad and now an M1 MacBook Pro. Keeps it all in house and tidy.

I can't see me ever getting a 'personal' camera ever again. I just wouldn't have it with me when I wanted it, but my phone, always.

[mercer]

I haven't read this thread, so I have no idea what the needs/wants of the OP are. I am only replying because I was added to the discussion...

I really don't understand why people on this forum keep saying that the 5D Mark III with ML Raw is unreliable? It is a hack, in a way, but it's more of a separate OS for the camera that can go back to the factory firmware at any time.

The settings and workflow are a bit convoluted, but I have NEVER heard of anyone bricking their camera with ML Raw. Is it possible? Well, the ML team says it is in their disclaimer, but it's common knowledge that's just a disclaimer so they aren't held responsible in case something were to happen.

Once all of the settings are figured out, the camera literally works like any other camera, other than the ability to play back and watch your files. It was a bit scary at first to not have that option, but once you shoot with it, you just trust that you got the shot. Otherwise it turns on and you're in Magic Lantern's menu and off you go. The only other downside is that you have to format your cards on a computer to exfat. The 5D3 is different than other models because it has an SD card slot and a CF slot. You install the firmware onto the SD card and record onto the CF. Other models require you to load the firmware onto the same card you're shooting on. With the 5D3, you load the firmware to the SD card once and leave it in the camera.

With that said, this information is only based on my experience with the 5D3 using a stable nightly build. I've never used the 5D2 or the eos-m. I did you use the 50D once and that was a hot mess until you got the footage into the computer and saw the image. It's what got me hooked on ML Raw.

And with that said, when asked if somebody should get the 5D3 for ML Raw, I usually say NO. 9 out of 10 times, people don't like the extra workflow and are intrigued by the experimental higher resolution modes which are finicky. For full frame, 1080p 14bit Raw... the camera cannot be beat!

[mercer]

On 6/21/2022 at 12:20 PM, mkabi said:

Its more than just "artifacts"... do your research before going down that route...

If you are bothered by a 30 min. record limit... yeah well... you know what... do your research.

As far as I know, 1080p Raw runs continuous on the 5D Mark III. I've gotten as much as 10 minutes.

If you need 30 minutes... buy a camcorder.

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, Django said:

@webrunner5 I have an iPhone 13 lol.. night mode just uses slow exposure trickery, nothing revolutionary.. but hey let me lift that 1DC paper weight artefact off your shoulders, I will give it a good home I promise !

More people and more people now use Smartphones for Astro Photography, they are that good at night photography. And I am not talking about Night Mode.

Tell me any camera the OP can afford to buy with a fast lens that is good at low light. And I am not talking about cheap ass MF Chinese lens.