New Firmware for R5/R6/R3

[92F]

Exact....

[BTM_Pix]

54 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

The results seem to show the image is identical on both cameras, but the EOS R5 is cheaper, has IBIS and better AF, also boots up quicker.

They didn't test the overheating though?

And with the R5 you don’t have to give it two days written notice if you want to switch from cine to stills mode.

[Ty Harper]

Anyone on here with R5C experience that can tell me how the battery life compares to say a 5D MKIII?

Also, if you had the option of buying a used R5C for $375US more than a used R5, would you go with the R5C?

I'm definitely going to buy one or the other - my main concern with the R5C is the battery life. I mostly shoot talking head doc stuff and will mostly be using 4K 422 10-bit XFAC. When I'm in the field I'm used to run-n-gunning with a few extra batteries for my 5D MKIII with ML RAW and maybe using 3 out 4 of those batteries. But the battery life of the R5C seems to be around the threshold of unacceptable.

Anyways, if there are any R5C users willing to chime in I'd sincerely appreciate it, thx!

[webrunner5]

 

[gt3rs]

16 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

And with the R5 you don’t have to give it two days written notice if you want to switch from cine to stills mode.

I was worried for this but for my usage is really not an issue at all.

What scenario do you take 20 sec video switch for taking 3 picture and back to video?
I switch a lot and is not an issue (disable sensor cleaning in photo so it does it only once instead of twice every switch, you can even fully disable to gain even more time) by the time I'm ready to take the picture the camera is ready. I'm sure there are scenarios that requires super quick switch but then it may be better to use a higher shutter speed and pull frame from RAW video, I do it a lot in case that they need video and photos, and the "cinematic" aspect of the video is not so key. 

 

 

[gt3rs]

14 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

Anyone on here with R5C experience that can tell me how the battery life compares to say a 5D MKIII?

Also, if you had the option of buying a used R5C for $375US more than a used R5, would you go with the R5C?

I'm definitely going to buy one or the other - my main concern with the R5C is the battery life. I mostly shoot talking head doc stuff and will mostly be using 4K 422 10-bit XFAC. When I'm in the field I'm used to run-n-gunning with a few extra batteries for my 5D MKIII with ML RAW and maybe using 3 out 4 of those batteries. But the battery life of the R5C seems to be around the threshold of unacceptable.

Anyways, if there are any R5C users willing to chime in I'd sincerely appreciate it, thx!

The R5 when in standby it has low res mode and I believe when you go into menus it even stops the live feed to save battery, there is a setting to enable high res if you use it with and external recorder, streaming etc..

The R5c basically is always processing the live feed even when non recording, the menus are transparent over the live feed and basically is always filming at the current settings thus it makes almost zero difference if recording or not.
One trick is to enter playback menu as there it stops the live feed and basically stop draining the battery.
I also think that all the additional feature like waveform etc... consumes more cpu cycles and on top of that the OS probably was never optimized for small battery. 

While recording on similar settings probably they use similar battery but the R5c is much more conservative with the battery status so it will tell you that the battery is gone while on a R5 you can still continue to record.

Long story short the battery is the only real BIG issue of the R5c imo. 

You have basically 5 options and none are really great imo:
- Change battery every 45 min no matter what you are doing
- Buy the battery grip it will give double battery capacity, it adds bulk, weight and still cannot use 8k 50/60 RAW. Plus add costs but if you already have batteries it may not be such bad idea. 
- Buy a dtap to dummy battery, add a cage and a vmount plate and use dtap battery that you may already have, still cannot use 8k 50/60 RAW, bulky but if you have the batteries already not too expensive and cables are quite safe. Camera will run for many hours.
- Buy a PD 45w power bank, can run for many hours, is cheap but cable is fragile and you probably need a cage and a power bank mount that are terrible imo.
- My solution, add a cage, vmount plate, and buy FXLION NANO ONE and use the USB-C cable, it runs with the small ONE around 3h of recording 8k, the NANO TWO will last probably more than 6h recording. Disadvantage it adds bulks, and you need a cable locking system to protect the fragile USB-C, batteries are expensive but cheaper than buying 4 canon batteries.

I think in future you will see third party dummy battery that provides enough V for 8k 60 from dtap. You could do it already with the canon coupler for R5c plus anthon bauer dtap thing but is a big mees, super long cables, a box in between and expensive. This is a joke.

Again, I really don't understand why Canon is not offering a battery grip with R3 batteries and problem solved, no cables and enough power for 8k 60.
 

If you do docs the advantages of the R5c is the face only AF, will never overheat, XAFC is so much better to edit, the various exposure tool and if you use 4k 50/60p the quality is much better. Lack of IBIS could be an issue or not depending on your style and if you use IS lenses or not.
Probably in your case if you are not interested in the 8k 50/60 RAW is to buy the battery grip, if you already have many LP-E6 batteries you "only" have the cost of the grip. 

I don't like to rig cameras as I only do run and guns thing mostly in areas that you cannot even go with a car, so I carry my equipment on bikes, skis, heli, etc...  and yet I prefer the R5c with this big battery issue.

 

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, gt3rs said:

What scenario do you take 20 sec video switch for taking 3 picture and back to video?

A wedding, hybrid coverage.

Snap snap snap snap snap photo, immediately flip to video mode, recompose if necessary, focus, press record.

All. Day. Long.

20 seconds would be an absolute deal-breaker for me.

Less than 2 seconds with Lumix and then the rest is up to me which is typically; <2 second flip from stills mode to video (or visa versa) + I'd estimate another <2 seconds to compose, acquire focus using AF and manually flick to manual focus, press record, so in total, a sub 4 second process, probably closer to 3 seconds.

With 2x camera bodies, I'd repeat this process an average 250x per shoot as that's my ballpark number of clips I come back with.

20-25 second 'flipping' would flipping kill my approach to capturing a wedding!

All hail Lumix.

[BTM_Pix]

33 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

I was worried for this but for my usage is really not an issue at all.

It likely won’t be for a lot of other people either.

34 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

What scenario do you take 20 sec video switch for taking 3 picture and back to video?

These days I wouldn’t as I don’t do that work anymore but when I did there would be a number of scenarios where it would have been an issue when I was looking for maximum coverage on a job.

Press conferences for example when the team manager/player/fighter/rider etc are being asked questions I would be filming the answers and taking stills during the translation of the question.

Boxing press conferences are where the fast ability to switch between modes as you never knew when it would kick off between the two fighters. So you’d be taking stills of both as some benign question was being asked and then the answer might cause a table turning chair throwing brawl. The switchover time in that instance would be a major issue with a big financial hit.

Training sessions would be another one as you are only allowed in for 15 mins and have to make the most of it. Filming players half heartedly jogging about leaves you with functional but barely sellable footage so you make the revenue up with profile stills of the players which end up having a longer shelf life in the agency library. 

So, whilst it’s moot because I don’t do it anymore, the R5 would be the better solution for my needs. 
 
The more salient point for me, though, is how Canon made a virtue out of the cine/stills switch in their launch video showing users merrily switching between modes to no doubt push its “modern content creation requirements” whilst in no way reflecting the time it takes to switch. 

Not the biggest piece of dishonesty they’ve done with the R5 range of course but a shithouse trick nonetheless.

[gt3rs]

6 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

A wedding, hybrid coverage.

Snap snap snap snap snap photo, immediately flip to video mode, recompose if necessary, focus, press record.

All. Day. Long.

20 seconds would be an absolute deal-breaker for me.

Less than 2 seconds with Lumix and then the rest is up to me which is typically; <2 second flip from stills mode to video (or visa versa) + I'd estimate another <2 seconds to compose, acquire focus using AF and manually flick to manual focus, press record, so in total, a sub 4 second process, probably closer to 3 seconds.

With 2x camera bodies, I'd repeat this process an average 250x per shoot as that's my ballpark number of clips I come back with.

20-25 second 'flipping' would flipping kill my approach to capturing a wedding!

All hail Lumix.

20 seconds? 

Just timed (don't believe all these drama queen youtubers):

Boot in video mode: 3 sec
Boot in photo mode: 1.2 sec

Switch Video to Photo with no sensor cleaning: 8 sec
Photo to Video with no sensor cleaning: 4.5 sec

[gt3rs]

A couple of frame grabs to show the AF

R5c, AF at max speed, at 200mm at F2.8, on a gimbal with me walking fast.

50fps, 1/100

100 fps 1/200

[MrSMW]

3 hours ago, gt3rs said:

20 seconds? 

Just timed (don't believe all these drama queen youtubers):

Maybe so, but even 8 seconds is too long for my needs!

But not a concern as I have no current plans to switch to any other system, - great tracking AF (or lack thereof) is the current (and only real cross) I have to bear…but even that is also a case of over-hyping YouTube drama queens 😜

[Ty Harper]

6 hours ago, gt3rs said:

Again, I really don't understand why Canon is not offering a battery grip with R3 batteries and problem solved, no cables and enough power for 8k 60.

Totally agree! Has Canon ever done something like that between cameras that don't share the same type of battery? It seems more likely that a third party would be the one to do it - but I doubt there's a big enough R5C owner base to even warrant it although in theory it would work for the R5 owners too.

On another note - any idea roughly how much time you get on the R5C with an LPE6 battery? I'm thinking maybe 20 minutes but would be good to hear from an actual owner. And thanks for your initial response!

[mkabi]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Maybe so, but even 8 seconds is too long for my needs!

But not a concern as I have no current plans to switch to any other system, - great tracking AF (or lack thereof) is the current (and only real cross) I have to bear…but even that is also a case of over-hyping YouTube drama queens 😜

I'm telling you... people that don't know are completely oblivious... people look at 8 seconds and think thats nothing. But if you are at a wedding or any other event... where candid moments are happening on the micro-second level... those 8 seconds feel like an eternity. 

Those that don't know - I challenge you... you don't need to be a photographer/videographer at the event... but the next time you attend one... just pay attention... find those candid moments and just count... 1 mississippi... 2 mississippi.... all the way to 8 mississippi... then tell us that 8 seconds is nothing.

[gt3rs]

58 minutes ago, mkabi said:

I'm telling you... people that don't know are completely oblivious... people look at 8 seconds and think thats nothing. But if you are at a wedding or any other event... where candid moments are happening on the micro-second level... those 8 seconds feel like an eternity. 

Those that don't know - I challenge you... you don't need to be a photographer/videographer at the event... but the next time you attend one... just pay attention... find those candid moments and just count... 1 mississippi... 2 mississippi.... all the way to 8 mississippi... then tell us that 8 seconds is nothing.

But then you have the candid moment only in photo or video…. 

[mkabi]

32 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

But then you have the candid moment only in photo or video…. 

True, but then why would they ever need to switch between photo and video during an event???

At which point, we are back to the argument - why even have a hybrid camera??? You can have a dedicated one for photo and a dedicated one for video.

[gt3rs]

6 minutes ago, mkabi said:

True, but then why would they ever need to switch between photo and video during an event???

At which point, we are back to the argument - why even have a hybrid camera??? You can have a dedicated one for photo and a dedicated one for video.

I get your arguments and are valid but if you really fear to miss the moment then video with a higher ss may be a better strategy now that camera have high res video that can take a lot of post processing.

I don’t do weddings so I can’t comment but on sports it works well as I get both video and photos and I have many more expressions as I film all the time. The ss is probably less of an issue in sports.

[gt3rs]

2 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

Totally agree! Has Canon ever done something like that between cameras that don't share the same type of battery? It seems more likely that a third party would be the one to do it - but I doubt there's a big enough R5C owner base to even warrant it although in theory it would work for the R5 owners too.

On another note - any idea roughly how much time you get on the R5C with an LPE6 battery? I'm thinking maybe 20 minutes but would be good to hear from an actual owner. And thanks for your initial response!

If you turn on the camera, 2 min of setup and then start recording 4k XF-AVC on a fresh lpe6nh you should get at list around 1h…. official specs says 156 min…. older lpe6 probably less but I have none.

Now the problem is that if you record 10 x 1 min clips and leave the camera on, go to menus etc in 1h battery is gone, although you recorded only 10 min, if you are in 8k RAW probably in 35-40 min is game over if you recording or not.

 

[ntblowz]

3 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

On another note - any idea roughly how much time you get on the R5C with an LPE6 battery? I'm thinking maybe 20 minutes but would be good to hear from an actual owner. And thanks for your initial response!

The camera show 20min if u put lp-e6 on it

[ntblowz]

Interesting he sold the R5C and got R5.

 

[gt3rs]

17 hours ago, ntblowz said:

The camera show 20min if u put lp-e6 on it

In what settings?

Fully charged lp-e6nh in XF-AVC shows 67min