Smartphone sensor size on a rampage

[webrunner5]

But this video with 3 different cameras show maybe Filmic Pro might be a better option than MotionCam on different phones.

 

[Emanuel]

Useful but so tiring to listen his crazy diction... "Maybe", you said ; ) Because actually doesn't beat it for real TBH : ) Just easier to use it, that's all ;- )

[Andrew Reid]

Filmic Pro is bettered by mcpro24fps on Android in my opinion. But neither are the same proposition as Motion Cam as neither shoot raw video, which is its own thing entirely. The way the image looks, the way it bypasses the phone's processing, the way you grade it, is all totally unique to raw.

[Emanuel]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Filmic Pro is bettered by mcpro24fps on Android in my opinion. But neither are the same proposition as Motion Cam as neither shoot raw video, which is its own thing entirely. The way the image looks, the way it bypasses the phone's processing, the way you grade it, is all totally unique to raw.

Correct and that's very possible to find and see it in that video with no doubt at all :- )

[kye]

15 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Filmic Pro is bettered by mcpro24fps on Android in my opinion. But neither are the same proposition as Motion Cam as neither shoot raw video, which is its own thing entirely. The way the image looks, the way it bypasses the phone's processing, the way you grade it, is all totally unique to raw.

Definitely agree that RAW video from these things looks absolutely lovely.  Are there any smartphones that shoot RAW and Prores?  

From my limited experience with cameras that shoot both codecs (P2K / BMMCC) and downloading footage in both formats from various RED, ARRI, etc cinema cameras, the Prores files were basically as nice to work with and grade as the RAW files.  My theory was that Prores isn't better as a codec per-se but it's just that on cameras that shoot RAW the manufacturers know how to dial in the codec to look good.  

If it is in the ballpark of RAW image quality then the file-size differences can be a useful benefit.  The fact that many movies screened in theatres were shot on 1080p Prores HQ was a pretty big call as far as I was concerned - if it's good enough to project that big then I figure it's better than most of us need!

[webrunner5]

Yeah, but MotionCam does really not work very well at all on Sony phones and not great using Samsung phones either. So, like the video says other apps work out better. And if you have a really old phone probably none of the apps work. It takes a lot of horsepower for some of the apps to work.

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, kye said:

Definitely agree that RAW video from these things looks absolutely lovely.  Are there any smartphones that shoot RAW and Prores?  

From my limited experience with cameras that shoot both codecs (P2K / BMMCC) and downloading footage in both formats from various RED, ARRI, etc cinema cameras, the Prores files were basically as nice to work with and grade as the RAW files.  My theory was that Prores isn't better as a codec per-se but it's just that on cameras that shoot RAW the manufacturers know how to dial in the codec to look good.  

If it is in the ballpark of RAW image quality then the file-size differences can be a useful benefit.  The fact that many movies screened in theatres were shot on 1080p Prores HQ was a pretty big call as far as I was concerned - if it's good enough to project that big then I figure it's better than most of us need!

I don't think there is any phone that does Prores and Raw. The Apple iPhone 13 Pro does Prores at these rates.

 

All iPhone 13 Pro’s ProRes are 10-bitt with 4:2:2 chroma subsampling. These are maximum bitrates tested by FilMiC Pro at 4K 30fps.

iPhone 13 Pro’s ProRes variants:

ProRes Proxy: 170Mbps = 21MB/s = 1.3GB/m

ProRes LT: 360Mbps = 45MB/s = 2.7GB/m

ProRes 422: 540Mbps = 67.5MB/s = 4GB/m

ProRes 422 HQ: 735Mbps = 92MB/s = 5.5GB/m

[webrunner5]

Well, my friends and I went out for a ride. We are all beginning to look alike I am afraid. Well at least we didn't have to walk all the time. Only picture was this group photo. That is me in the front, picking my leg.

Not much action on here today, so I figured I would contribute something. Looks like I am losing my hair, Yikes.

 

 

[webrunner5]

Picture I took with my new OnePlus 9 Pro in the high MP mode. straight out of camera, but I did crop it a bit. Was in the 45mp mode. Only ends up like 11 to 18mp so far?

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

Got a OnePlus 9 Pro as well.

Put GCam on it and turn HDR+ on with RAW

Results are stunning.

I would like to get this next but seems somebody has destroyed it...

 

[webrunner5]

Picture I took with my new OnePlus 9 Pro in the Night Mode. It was not a timelapse just a snapshot. Pretty amazing, bordering on Sony A7s stuff. There was a full moon out, so I am sure that helped a lot but there is no light in the front yard, streetlight across the street. You can see from the stars how fast it was shot.

 

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

Just a thought...

It would be great to modify a smartphone so that it has only a sensor with no lens over it, and on the back cover a screw mount for C-mount lenses.

Then it really would play in the same league as the Digital Bolex in RAW.

It would need a lot of machining and new metal parts on the back to make it work and hope your OS doesn't notice that AF is missing!

But not beyond the realms of possibility is it?

[FHDcrew]

Backbone did a C-mount mod to the tiny Sony RX0, as well as many small GoPros. I don’t see how it could be done to a phone with some DIY knowledge. Would also open up the opportunity to get some actual shallow DOF!

[BTM_Pix]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Just a thought...

It would be great to modify a smartphone so that it has only a sensor with no lens over it, and on the back cover a screw mount for C-mount lenses.

Then it really would play in the same league as the Digital Bolex in RAW.

It would need a lot of machining and new metal parts on the back to make it work and hope your OS doesn't notice that AF is missing!

But not beyond the realms of possibility is it?

Ulanzi (and a few others if I remember) did an old school ground glass DOF adapter that let you put EF lenses on your phone.

Bit of a unwieldy monstrosity when you put the EF lens on and the ground glass didn't spin either but it did the job in terms of providing an approximation of "the look" that had us all buying Canon NV20s and the like and mounting them upside down on even more unwieldily rigs before the 5DMarkII et al handed everyone the keys to that kingdom !

So, whilst not the same as a native mount, a C-Mount version of something like that should be feasible and obviously smaller. And usable on multiple phones as well and whilst I know the EU keep changing warranty terms in favour of the consumer, I think even they'd draw the line at not seeing ripping the camera out and fitting a new mount as "problematic" in terms of a refund so it solves that problem too 😉

I can't see how it would be beyond the bounds of possibility to make the ground glass at least vibrate or even spin considering how companies like TechArt make the MF to AF adapters with motors that are absolutely tiny.

World has definitely moved on the 12 years or whatever since the DOF adapter movement in terms of doing this sort of thing DIY so a 3D printed prototype would be easy and cheap.

Minimum focus distance could be an issue on some smartphones for the ground glass so there will always be a certain amount of bulkiness to it. 

But thats just all the more space to put the variable electronic ND in isn't it ?

 

[MrSMW]

3 hours ago, FHDcrew said:

Backbone

I always fancied trying one of their Go Pro mods because the issue I have always had with action cams is how wide they are.

[Andrew Reid]

5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Ulanzi (and a few others if I remember) did an old school ground glass DOF adapter that let you put EF lenses on your phone.

Yeah I have the Beastgrip one.

Problem is it needs an extremely close minimum focus distance and doesn't work well with larger smartphone sensors, especially in the corners where it looks like it's gone ten rounds with a cat loving workshop host.

5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Bit of a unwieldy monstrosity when you put the EF lens on and the ground glass didn't spin either but it did the job in terms of providing an approximation of "the look" that had us all buying Canon NV20s and the like and mounting them upside down on even more unwieldily rigs before the 5DMarkII et al handed everyone the keys to that kingdom !

So, whilst not the same as a native mount, a C-Mount version of something like that should be feasible and obviously smaller.

Yes everything would be smaller. Ground glass could be smaller, lens is certainly smaller.

5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

And usable on multiple phones as well and whilst I know the EU keep changing warranty terms in favour of the consumer, I think even they'd draw the line at not seeing ripping the camera out and fitting a new mount as "problematic" in terms of a refund so it solves that problem too 😉

I can't see how it would be beyond the bounds of possibility to make the ground glass at least vibrate or even spin considering how companies like TechArt make the MF to AF adapters with motors that are absolutely tiny.

World has definitely moved on the 12 years or whatever since the DOF adapter movement in terms of doing this sort of thing DIY so a 3D printed prototype would be easy and cheap.

Minimum focus distance could be an issue on some smartphones for the ground glass so there will always be a certain amount of bulkiness to it. 

But thats just all the more space to put the variable electronic ND in isn't it ?

I would ideally like to go crazy and dismantle a smartphone, take all the gubbins out and put it in a GH2!!

Or at least as follows...

Detach lens from main sensor.

3D print holder for the sensor and mainboard, put it behind the hollowed out GH2's mount

Detach the screen of course and have that on a hinge at the back.

It is definitely not easy but surely doable with a few precision tools!!

[FHDcrew]

I think DOF adapters could have potential; existing phone solutions appear cheaply made with image artifacts such as extreme corner distortion and severe softness. DIY Perks seems to have nailed the DOF adapter in this custom extra-large-sensor rig. Image looking very clean on the R5, I imagine something like this could be severely scaled down; maybe to micro 4/3 size so we can use affordable cheap manual focus primes, keeping a small-ish form factor but still gaining actual shallow DOF and being able to shoot DNG RAW. I assume some of the MotionCam RAW output on the largest-sensored smartphones may even be comparable to a RAW still from an actually MFT body like a Gh5!

[FHDcrew]

https://youtu.be/9cT0jXI7l4E

[FHDcrew]

Oh well the forum decided it didn’t want to embed!

[BTM_Pix]

55 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I would ideally like to go crazy and dismantle a smartphone, take all the gubbins out and put it in a GH2!!

Or in the shell of one of the Samsung Android based compacts ?