Tips for exposing and grading “flat” profiles

[FHDcrew]

6 hours ago, kye said:

You're thinking about this wrong - when you shoot LOG you create highlight rolloff in post using the methods I have mentioned.  For all practical purposes, all cameras are just large arrays of linear light measurement - they don't have any highlight rolloff at all.  
The "Look" of each camera is defined almost exclusively by the colour processing that happens after the image is captured (and a tiny bit by the sensor) and when you shoot log you're in control of the vast majority of that processing that occurs.

I couldn't find reliable DR tests for the Z6, but the GH5 doesn't compare well to the XT-3...  GH5 v1 has 10.8 stops, GH5 v2 has 11.5 and XT-3 has 13 stops.  

DR can make more of a difference than many people think when shooting in uncontrolled conditions and when it's not just art but needs to be informational as well.  In shooting the GH5 v1 I am often forced to choose between clipping the whole sky and being able to identify the person sitting in the shade.  A choice between "here's a photo of Susan and the sky is digital white" and "here's a nice photo of ....  someone? who is that?" isn't a choice that I enjoy having to make.

Of course, this choice is actually a factor of how usable the image is in latitude tests rather than just DR as a single digit.  Having a photo of Susan where she's bright purple is better than her not being recognisable, but still leaves a huge amount to be desired.

And this is really why I’d like the Xt3 over a Gh5. Though maybe I don’t need to upgrade…I could keep using my Ninja Star with my Z6 for clean 10 bit and a smaller more lightweight setup. But then I still don’t like the setup time. And the ninja star is micro hdmi. 
 

Ugh. I kind of hate wanting a new camera. It’s stressful and feels somewhat like wasted pleasure. 

[webrunner5]

9 hours ago, kye said:

You're thinking about this wrong - when you shoot LOG you create highlight rolloff in post using the methods I have mentioned.  For all practical purposes, all cameras are just large arrays of linear light measurement - they don't have any highlight rolloff at all.  
The "Look" of each camera is defined almost exclusively by the colour processing that happens after the image is captured (and a tiny bit by the sensor) and when you shoot log you're in control of the vast majority of that processing that occurs.

I couldn't find reliable DR tests for the Z6, but the GH5 doesn't compare well to the XT-3...  GH5 v1 has 10.8 stops, GH5 v2 has 11.5 and XT-3 has 13 stops.  

DR can make more of a difference than many people think when shooting in uncontrolled conditions and when it's not just art but needs to be informational as well.  In shooting the GH5 v1 I am often forced to choose between clipping the whole sky and being able to identify the person sitting in the shade.  A choice between "here's a photo of Susan and the sky is digital white" and "here's a nice photo of ....  someone? who is that?" isn't a choice that I enjoy having to make.

Of course, this choice is actually a factor of how usable the image is in latitude tests rather than just DR as a single digit.  Having a photo of Susan where she's bright purple is better than her not being recognisable, but still leaves a huge amount to be desired.

So you are just going by the DR figures believing the manufacture.

Here is what they Really are on the XT3. Far from 13. Like I said probably not a stop behind. Unless you buy a BM camera you are never going to get high DR unless you spend 5000 dollars.

 

[kye]

55 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

So you are just going by the DR figures believing the manufacture.

Here is what they Really are on the XT3. Far from 13. Like I said probably not a stop behind. Unless you buy a BM camera you are never going to get high DR unless you spend 5000 dollars.

 

No, I wasn't.  This is from CineD.

Source is: https://www.cined.com/content/uploads/2018/10/recent-results.jpg

What's the article that shows the chart you showed?  I don't recall having seen that before.

[kye]

3 hours ago, FHDcrew said:

And this is really why I’d like the Xt3 over a Gh5. Though maybe I don’t need to upgrade…I could keep using my Ninja Star with my Z6 for clean 10 bit and a smaller more lightweight setup. But then I still don’t like the setup time. And the ninja star is micro hdmi. 
 

Ugh. I kind of hate wanting a new camera. It’s stressful and feels somewhat like wasted pleasure. 

Everyone wants a new camera all the time.  Except when they're asleep, and when they're thinking about what they're shooting and what is in the final video.  

[FHDcrew]

6 minutes ago, kye said:

Everyone wants a new camera all the time.  Except when they're asleep, and when they're thinking about what they're shooting and what is in the final video.  

Yeah but I don’t even want to want a new camera. If you know what I mean. It’s annoying. But not having to deal with external recorders is appealing. 

[webrunner5]

27 minutes ago, kye said:

No, I wasn't.  This is from CineD.

Source is: https://www.cined.com/content/uploads/2018/10/recent-results.jpg

What's the article that shows the chart you showed?  I don't recall having seen that before.

https://www.cined.com/fujifilm-x-t3-review/ And you are not even comparing the same test to each other. It would be 12.4 at max not 13. Like you are really going to see 1 to 1.2 stops with you eye.

[webrunner5]

Then you are going to downscale it to Rec709 and then put it up on YouTube compression. Sure on your monitor it will look different but, on the web, not so much. A GH5 is ten times the camera for all the video goodies it has compared to an XT3. Not counting lens selection.

[kye]

34 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

https://www.cined.com/fujifilm-x-t3-review/ And you are not even comparing the same test to each other. It would be 12.4 at max not 13. Like you are really going to see 1 to 1.2 stops with you eye.

I'm comparing UHD on a 1080p timeline, but they're rough figures anyway.

In terms of not being able to see 1-2 stops of DR difference, if its right at the edges of what is visible then yeah, you can totally see it.  Have you ever even shot in uncontrolled conditions and tried to pull detail from both ends of the spectrum?  It's really sounding like you haven't because I have, and it's really quite obvious.

[kye]

53 minutes ago, FHDcrew said:

Yeah but I don’t even want to want a new camera. If you know what I mean. It’s annoying. But not having to deal with external recorders is appealing. 

I want a new camera, despite not wanting to want a new camera.

There are a great many things in life that I don't want to want, but want anyway.  Or the opposite, I want to want some things, but I just don't.

[webrunner5]

Yeah, if you want it on a 1080p timeline sure it is 13 stops. I can see that. In reality we need to buy a PK4 and be done with it on the video side. Not only does it really have 13 stops it can shoot in Raw, and it has Way better color science than anything else we could afford, and hey it has a m4/3 mount, hot damn.

[FHDcrew]

42 minutes ago, kye said:

I want a new camera, despite not wanting to want a new camera.

There are a great many things in life that I don't want to want, but want anyway.  Or the opposite, I want to want some things, but I just don't.

I want to want to want to not want to want a new camera 😅

 

Yeah I suppose that statement sounds silly. But in my case it’s true. I don’t want to want a new camera haha

[MrSMW]

I want a Porsche 911, a motorhome and a Nikon Z9. In any order.

[kye]

15 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah, if you want it on a 1080p timeline sure it is 13 stops. I can see that. In reality we need to buy a PK4 and be done with it on the video side. Not only does it really have 13 stops it can shoot in Raw, and it has Way better color science than anything else we could afford, and hey it has a m4/3 mount, hot damn.

I'm gradually pushing myself to see how basic/manual a camera I can get away with using as a proof of concept.  That's why I'm shooting with my P2K and my GX85 in full-manual.  

If I find that these things are do-able then it will put cameras like the P4K, P6K Pro, Sigma FP, etc on the potential list, which have much nicer image quality and DR than the GH5 and (potentially) GH6.  We haven't seen a lot from the GH6 but that just means that the jury is still out on it, rather than it being ruled out.

15 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I want a Porsche 911, a motorhome and a Nikon Z9. In any order.

Whenever I hear someone saying "I want.." as some sort of statement that implies they should get it just because they want it, I just reply with "I want a Lamborghini." and normally follow it with "what's your point?" or "but back here in reality" or "I love to dream" etc...  The kids probably find it annoying as hell but it amuses me no end!

[MrSMW]

I normally always say, “I would like” and silently correct people who say, “I want” which does indeed sound very self-deserving, so only used it in the continuation of the “I wants” above.

I would however like to obtain the said three items at some point, if I can afford and deserve them 😜

[leslie]

On 8/7/2022 at 3:00 AM, webrunner5 said:

Yeah, if you want it on a 1080p timeline sure it is 13 stops. I can see that. In reality we need to buy a PK4 and be done with it on the video side. Not only does it really have 13 stops it can shoot in Raw, and it has Way better color science than anything else we could afford, and hey it has a m4/3 mount, hot damn.

Amen 😀