Nikon Z9 / Firmware 2.0 Official Topic

[FHDcrew]

On 6/21/2022 at 7:37 AM, IronFilm said:

Yeah for all the horrible insane prices increase we see, with pricey cameras like the Z9, FX6, or R5C etc, we've actually never been living in better time ever in history for filmmaking!

As cameras such as the Panasonic S5 / GH5S, Z Cam E2-M4, Pocket 4K, Fujifilm X-T3, all offer amazing image quality for very very low prices!

 

I totally agree. So many “older” cameras at that price point ($1500-2000) that really deliver, no major image quality compromises. They all have good DR, nice color and good codecs. The Z6 plus Atomos Ninja V is also an honorable mention. I think this price point gets you considerably better than what you can get sub 1k. And I also think diminishing returns really sit in after this point. How much better will a Z9 look than a S5 or a Z6/Ninja?  Probably a *little little* bit better, but the *enormous* differences we all obsess over are all so small and minor. My Z6 does not have as much dynamic range for example, as the A7sIII. But even if you looked at them side by side, both shooting log, that extra difference would be super minor!  I just don’t get what all the obsession is about.  Ergonomics?  Usuabillty?  Quality of life improvements?  Sure, I’ll take those. But image quality?  We really are at high levels of diminishing returns. 

[FHDcrew]

I mean at the end of the day, it just never seems like a big leap in IQ anymore!  Yeah improvements are made. Canon R5C 8k RAW looks better than Fuji xt3 10 bit, but is it an astronomical difference?  No. Astronomical price difference?  Of course! Remember the days when we went from 8 bit canon line-skipped 720p, all the way up to GH4 clean 4k?  Or to Sony A7S, bringing log, high DR and smooth highlight rolloff to the masses?  What about going from 5d mark III mush to 5d mark III 14 bit RAW glory?  Those were huge differences. We are well past that type of image quality progression. Everything looks the same, everything looks really good. All that’s left is for this IQ to keep trickling down into the sub $1k territory. 

[IronFilm]

6 hours ago, FHDcrew said:

I totally agree. So many “older” cameras at that price point ($1500-2000) that really deliver, no major image quality compromises. They all have good DR, nice color and good codecs.

Cameras such as the GH5/GH5S/Z6/G9/X-T3 can all be with luck easily found for sub US$1K

Crazy to think that they're "old" cameras!

[FHDcrew]

Exactly!  And they have such a good image!  The fact that you could even compare then to like an R5C is testimony enough!

[MrSMW]

I’ve been doing the maths…

Single Z9 + adapter + Tamron 35-150mm f2/2.8

vs

Pair of Lumix S1R’s + 28-70mm f2.8 + 105mm f2.8 (in crop mode 4k 50p, 42-105mm and 157.5mm)

Nikon based combo wins.

Single unit combo larger and heavier, but overall, lighter and more compact.

Can shoot 8k 50p Nraw internally (albeit at massive file sizes) for those brief, but critical times when I have to use an additional 3rd body (S1H) on a tripod to shoot video and stills at the same time, otherwise…

Flip back to 4k 50p + stills rest of the time (95%+) of my coverage.

This is HUGE actually for a hybrid shooter, specifically me. HUGE.

I still need 2x static 4k 25p units, but they would have just that single role at just 2 points in the day.

The downside though is:

A. The cost to buy.

B. The cost to change.

C. The fact that I can’t find a single Z9 for sale within the EU without a massive premium 🤷‍♂️

If I was going to switch, the window of opportunity is the next 3 days.

Ain’t going to happen, but I might just put in a preorder somewhere because it should be easy to sell it on with zero loss if the timing is not right.

Or start building a system off it.

Damn, it’s not just ‘peak camera’ but but ‘peak camera and lens combo’ (for me) for the first time in my 20+ year career. But I can’t buy the bloody thing! 🤪

[Andrew Reid]

Sticky topic for the Nikon Z9 and related topics such as RED's legal action vs ProRes RAW in firmware 2.0.

[mercer]

14 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I’ve been doing the maths…

Single Z9 + adapter + Tamron 35-150mm f2/2.8

vs

Pair of Lumix S1R’s + 28-70mm f2.8 + 105mm f2.8 (in crop mode 4k 50p, 42-105mm and 157.5mm)

Nikon based combo wins.

Single unit combo larger and heavier, but overall, lighter and more compact.

Can shoot 8k 50p Nraw internally (albeit at massive file sizes) for those brief, but critical times when I have to use an additional 3rd body (S1H) on a tripod to shoot video and stills at the same time, otherwise…

Flip back to 4k 50p + stills rest of the time (95%+) of my coverage.

This is HUGE actually for a hybrid shooter, specifically me. HUGE.

I still need 2x static 4k 25p units, but they would have just that single role at just 2 points in the day.

The downside though is:

A. The cost to buy.

B. The cost to change.

C. The fact that I can’t find a single Z9 for sale within the EU without a massive premium 🤷‍♂️

If I was going to switch, the window of opportunity is the next 3 days.

Ain’t going to happen, but I might just put in a preorder somewhere because it should be easy to sell it on with zero loss if the timing is not right.

Or start building a system off it.

Damn, it’s not just ‘peak camera’ but but ‘peak camera and lens combo’ (for me) for the first time in my 20+ year career. But I can’t buy the bloody thing! 🤪

Apparently, the IBIS only works with certain z mount lenses and it only has an electronic shutter.

With that, the Z9 really is an impressive camera.

[Django]

Nikon often announces cameras at the end of summer and there is a rumoured Z8 (Z9 without grip). But I really don't see how Nikon could announce/release that while it still has so many back-ordered Z9's. And yeah plus with the whole RED patent mess I dunno, their camera department must be in serious dismay..

[MrSMW]

9 hours ago, mercer said:

Apparently, the IBIS only works with certain z mount lenses and it only has an electronic shutter.

Nah, I don’t think that is correct.

You have:

IBIS which stabilises all lenses

Lens stabilisation

Certain combinations that work together and almost always native, this latter option usually offering +1 stop of stabilisation over just IBIS.

Some cameras offer the option to tweak the IBIS to match the lens/focal length.

But otherwise, nah, any lens, even a cine will be stabilised on a camera with IBIS and it does not have to be native.

Yup, it’s e:shutter only and initially I had reservations about that having used all my recent cameras in that mode at times with mixed results and tried another e: only camera, the Sigma FP/L last year.

Based on my results/testing, I had to say no to the Sigma, but unless folks are lying and faking the results from the Z9, it’s in another league/highly useable except in certain extreme circumstances and certain strobe use.

[MrSMW]

8 hours ago, Django said:

Nikon often announces cameras at the end of summer and there is a rumoured Z8 (Z9 without grip). But I really don't see how Nikon could announce/release that while it still has so many back-ordered Z9's. And yeah plus with the whole RED patent mess I dunno, their camera department must be in serious dismay..

Yes, seen the rumors on that and something is supposed to be announced very shortly; either an 8 or a 6/7iii.

I think an 8 is most likely.

The rumor-mill seems to think other than the lack of a built in grip, it will skip a few other details including the 8k 60p raw internal and limit it to 30p.

That would be the dealbreaker for me right there as the (limited use) 8k 60p is one of the key factors for me.

The other being that 35-150.

24-70 = too short outdoor

70-200 = too long indoor, not wide enough outdoor

24-105 = a bit short outdoor, ceremony and speeches at weddings especially and a bit slow for my tastes, especially indoors.

24-70 + 70-200 = 2 bodies + 1 tripod or lens swapping, but still not having the right focal lengths all the time.

Some would argue that 35 is too wide and 150 not long enough.

Not for me. I rarely shoot wider than 28/35 and have no need for anything over 150, stills or video.

Quite happy to swap for a wide zoom for those rare times I do need something wider as those times are only ever at the start and the end of a job with about 9+ hours in between.

Of course the only real test for anything is actually using any bit of kit on an actual real job, but having had 20+ years practice in photo & video and 10+ in hybrid, I know my needs.

I have added my name to a Z9 waiting list but that’s as far as I can take it for now, so we’ll see…

 

[BTM_Pix]

Nikon have released another firmware upgrade for the Z9.

V3.0 offers what appears to be the equivalent of the JVC LS300 virtual zoom functions, 60fps stills, improved flicker reduction and bluetooth timecode.

Full details here :

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/mirrorless-cameras/firmware-updates/index.page

So another great update for a camera that is so rarely sighted that it wouldn't surprise me if you have to send it in to their Bermuda Triangle service centre where the upgrade will be performed by the Loch Ness Monster and her assistant Big Foot.

[Andrew Reid]

WEX showed it in-stock for all of 10 seconds yesterday. Apparently a lot of shipments going out at the moment, but apparently not enough to satisfy the hordes!

Even I want one, and I have 200 cameras!

That clear-image zoom is going to be great for c-mount lenses.

[MrSMW]

I also still want one.

I think it is the single best standalone camera for my specific hybrid needs.

I love a gripped body even though it goes against my preference for something small and discrete.

Getting one as my principal tool would also mean a pair of OM-1’s as sidekicks and I loved that thing. For all of 5 minutes before I sent it back.

I couldn’t use M4/3 as my main system but secondary, mainly static or gimbal, I sure could.

Sitting on my fence however and seeing what shakes out over the next 2-3 months before fully committing, but that Z9 keeps calling to me and does something nothing else can, 8k 50p video internal and pull the stills from it in certain scenarios that require both from just one camera at the same time.

Of all the tools currently available, the Z9 is the only one with ‘Game Changer’ engraved on it.

[essbe]

If it is possible for you to order from Sweden, it seems to be in stock in several places here:

https://www.cyberphoto.se/foto-video/kameror/systemkameror/nikon-z9-kamerahus

https://www.scandinavianphoto.se/nikon/z9-kamerahus-1050990

https://kameradoktorn.se/?id=10010350

[MrSMW]

Import duty for those in the UK!!

Bloody Brexit...

 

[BTM_Pix]

14 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Even I want one, and I have 200 cameras!

Its got enough about it to be the 201st and last one.

Certainly has for me.

As addicts, we often joke about a forever camera but to be honest I've actually reached that point where I am genuinely going to make the next one be the last one.

I've not been in any rush so I've been hanging on waiting for Japan to re-open its borders so I could get this mythical forever camera on my next trip and for quite a while I thought it was going to be the GFX100S but the longer the closure has gone on then the more the Z9 has become the one I'm after.

In September last year I'd booked a trip for October this year but it was too early for the re-opening by about a week so had to be cancelled and I'm now looking to go in September 23, at which point they should be in stock there and hopefully even available used to save a bit more money.

They are currently around £3.4K new there versus £5.3K and as I'm no rush I'll certainly hold off for that sort of saving.

The Z9 makes the most sense for me out of the new era cameras as I've got a large collection of F mounts to use with it but even so, particularly with this latest upgrade, even if I had to buy a few Z mount lenses I can't imagine needing anything more than this camera offers.

Well, except for some talent of course.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

As addicts, we often joke about a forever camera but to be honest I've actually reached that point where I am genuinely going to make the next one be the last one.

My thoughts re. the new Hassie for stills.

Major MAJOR investment, but I reckon I could probably eke that one out for the next (and final) 9 years.

I think the Z9 could be a 5 year camera for me and I am looking at 2x XH2 paired with a single XH2S as a 3 year deal.

I then look at the cost and the Fuji makes the most sense… 🤪

[Andrew Reid]

It certainly would be hard to beat a Z9 for years to come. Although I can imagine Fuji putting their X-H2 processor in a GFX100S Mark II at some point, the Z9 is unique in that it is the only one to stick two fingers up at RED and go all guns blazing with internal RAW. Canon with their sweetheart deal have a decent compressed 6K RAW codec on the R3 but it has hardly any options or frame rates compared to the Z9, which has about 5 pages of them! Including the crop mode and 120fps 4K N-RAW.

I also feel the Z9 might have the distinct advantage over R3 in having that handy E-mount adapter compatibility. I have a shed load of E-mount lenses including the Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 and would be nice to put them on the Z9.

It is hard to see how Nikon could have done a better job really... Perhaps shave 300g off the weight and have a mechanical shutter, which I might or might not miss depending on how the electronic one holds up. Also in the next firmware it would be nice if they put ProRes Proxy and LT 4K/6K/8K in there like the X-H2 for smaller file sizes (rather than just the HQ variant).

Has anyone seen it covered anywhere about N-RAW bitrates and whether the 4K RAW is binned or oversampled from the 8K sensor readout?

If I can put about 10 older cameras on eBay and replace them all with one, I'd probably still not be able to part with a few 'tricks' like uncompressed CDNG on the Sigma Fp-L, with the mojo that has in the crop modes, and a dedicated camera for my Super 16mm c-mount lenses, although these will mount on the Z9 too, remains to be seen if the new Firmware 3.0 lossless zoom goes all the way to 2x crop.

[BTM_Pix]

37 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

My thoughts re. the new Hassie for stills.

Major MAJOR investment, but I reckon I could probably eke that one out for the next (and final) 9 years.

On a purely aesthetic level, the 907x had me in much the same position.

Looking at that pic again, it might still have me !

38 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

The Z9 is unique in that it is the only one to stick two fingers up at RED and go all guns blazing with internal RAW.

I'm downloading this v3 as I did with v2 just to be on the safe side in case they don't prevail !

The exciting thing is if Nikon do win they can get the internal RAW into their lower tier cameras pretty pronto.

40 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I also feel the Z9 might have the distinct advantage over R3 in having that handy E-mount adapter compatibility. I have a shed load of E-mount lenses including the Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 and would be nice to put them on the Z9.

Canon have really dropped a bollock with the 3rd party lens and adapter stuff too as who knows when they could just switch them all off.

 

42 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

If I can put about 10 older cameras on eBay and replace them all with one, I'd probably still not be able to part with a few 'tricks' like uncompressed CDNG on the Sigma Fp-L, with the mojo that has in the crop modes, and a dedicated camera for my Super 16mm c-mount lenses, although these will mount on the Z9 too, remains to be seen if the new Firmware 3.0 lossless zoom goes all the way to 2x crop.

I'm not going to get all crazy and sell the 200 that I've already got 😉 

I'd likely not part with the Fp even if I was.

The EVF is on the Japan list.

Which is code for " I'll likely get a used Fp-L there while I'm at it too as the EVF is bundled in and I can shamelessly claim to have 'saved money' ".

Might not be such an easy purchase there actually as whilst the rest of the world is largely underwhelmed by the Fp/Fp-L it is very much a beloved piece in Japan.

[ade towell]

If you really want to get your hands on the Z9 they are always available from the usual grey market suspects... Panamoz do offer a 3 year warranty which I hear they are pretty good with. Unfortunately the price isn't as good as Japan but still a decent saving from the UK price, of course with all the caveats of grey import