Got rid of the pinned topics, contribute your ideas next

[Andrew Reid]

Hello everyone.

Forum is 50/50 sharing EOSHD with my content. So half the traffic goes to posts on the forum and half goes to my articles and content.

I would like to make some changes to EOSHD to make it more sustainable and grow again after a difficult period.

1. Definitely want to keep in touch and talk to my mates here on the forum. So not going to close the place down or suddenly let it go dark. How do people feel about a Reddit group or a Discord server, which are more smartphone friendly and a bit more about realtime chat and problem solving compared to a thread on a forum which may stretch over many pages and takes a lot of time to delve into? Maybe a better medium for lighter discussions and chat?

2. Financial side of EOSHD is not good at the moment. The forum might have to make way for the blog to put the attention 100% on my content. I can't see a viable way to make money from the forum. I don't think I want to put advertising everywhere either. If you can suggest a way to fund the forum and keep it going, I'd like to know your thoughts on that.

3. Small number of regular users are creating most of the content. We need to grow. Any ideas related to this very welcome. I can't really get my head around it. A very busy forum has crossed into that dangerous territory where a very small minority of regular users are making 99% of the posts. We need a more diverse range of topics and to not have the few interesting pieces flooded with 20 pages of armchair opinions 🙂

4. How the forum shares the domain with my own content needs to change especially on smartphones. If anyone can suggest new forum software that integrates seamlessly with a blog I am all ears as cannot seem to find any at all.

5. If forum is to come to an end after 11 years, it will because all replacements, shake-ups, redesigns and all ideas are exhausted and it becomes financially unviable for me to run it. I didn't agree at all with the way Cinema5D suddenly dumped their forum. All that info and all those posts in the bin. I didn't know what the rationale was behind it at all. Selling it to Mitch at Planet5D was a complete dick move. People (and their opinions) are not pawns to be traded around for money.

So I am all for constructive criticism on how we can make the forum grow again, be more interesting again and be financially viable.

How can we get some of the members back we lost?

Why are they not interested in posting here any more?

Is the general topic of cameras and video in decline?

And let's look to the positives of this place as well.

What works best? How can we play to our strengths and be relevant?

Over and out.

Andrew

[PannySVHS]

I still believe to remember right, that you chimmed in once in a while when redundance in threads took over. Maybe not a pleasant and most effective thing to do. I don´t know, so I feel humbled to have suggested a possibly naive idea.

People could come up and send you interesting topics they would be willing to write about with filmic examples they did themselves. I f.i. will team up with a friend of mine these weeks and put my Zeiss 10-100 T2 to use with an old Alexa on its S16 crop. I would provide thoughts on the infamous 2x Zeiss Mutar, asking question if it could be combined with a PL-mft speedbooster from metabones to counteract the 2x enlargement factor. Just an example. Or a test of the Konica 35 100 2.8, a varifocal monster of a lens, for which no sufficient test footage exists on the web. Just a bit of keywords of what I could offer, if of interest.

I think, pinned topics are indeed a great thing. It will be at your hand, how many and which ones. Imo, it won´t be a r1 to r20 parade of cameras and sofore 20 pinned threads, as a metaphor.

Still, there has always been great exitement about your own articles. Afaik they have been the turbo, the sparkle of every dynamics on this forum. I remember a guest article or article feat Ed David and his NX1 piece. It was a foundation of more to come and great posts by the guy.

We forum members must leave politics out. It caused a lot of misunderstandings amoung friends. It only gave some real trolls power over us. Their power was destructive.

The idea of a camera cafe or chit chat corner is great.

I think another important task is to define categories and subcategories the best possible way. To make the relevant, not redundant and appealing and not to large in number. Not a super easy thing to do. But suggestions can be made by members and should provide sufficient ideas. For instance: Lenses should have their own category, such as footage and such as raw shooting cameras. Right now they all range underer "More". NX1 could become a pinned thread in an "8bit vintage category". This is just for a start of ideas regarding an order and topics of categories to express appeal and usuability to an audience and contributors.

Challenges, we should follow through and not just announce challenges but also take them and the joy going along with them. Writing about our findings, asking questions along, creating new threads out of problems and new findings..

On a longer note. How about collabs in real time for lens nerding with ppl who are around your area. Just sayin. Not having an obsession here. Too busy carrying heavy lamps to be obsessive with anything else.:)

My two cents. Time to go to bed. Thank you for everything, Andrew! Thanks to you others as well! cheers 🙂

 

[fuzzynormal]

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Is the general topic of cameras and video in decline?

Sure is. 

We had the renaissance just over a decade ago and now we're finally in a different landscape.  In the early 'Aughts consumers really couldn't make cinema level image quality.  I mean, the best we could do back then was rig up those goofy lens adapter machines and film a rotating disc capturing light from vintage lenses with a camcorder.

The Sea-change unfolded starting with the 5DII and it was always a wild ride.  Now?  Damn near everyone has a pretty awesome motion picture imaging device.

I know for myself I'm actually retro and like to play with things well behind the bleeding edge.   For instance, there's not a lot of people in general that would be interested anymore in me hacking another GH1 like I did last week, but in 2010?  Man, that would launch a thread of a 1,000 responses.

[webrunner5]

I will be honest; I as most know on here am on the Smartphone train and doubt I will leave it anytime soon. A lot has to do with me being retired and on a fixed income. If I buy something I have to sell something to get it done. It sucks to give up some damn good stuff. Plus, my back as of late is absolutely killing me so carrying big stuff doesn't help either. 

And to be honest the output from Smartphones now is actually good enough for MY needs so heck why bother. I have to blame Andrew for considering them, he has shown some great photos and footage from them on his Twitter account.

I am not getting rid of every camera I have but the new stuff is interesting to me to read about on here but buying it probably not going to happen. Not until are few years later when it is a Really great price used. And by then Phones will be even better. Hmm I see a pattern here lol. I have a lot of old cheap glass, so I am always up to using that stuff. And still have ENG lenses, so hey not giving up without a fight. So I am hanging in on here till Andrew kicks me off I guess, or I fall over dead, or whatever. 😨

[Andrew Reid]

Smartphones have done a quiet revolution in the past couple of years with the much larger sensors and huge dynamic range. DR in GCAM computational DNG RAW files rivals the Fuji GFX medium format cams.

If I had my crystal ball out I would say there is going to be a very nice growing filmmaking and enthusiast scene around high-end flagship smartphones.

Super 16mm is back.

7 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

Sure is. 

We had the renaissance just over a decade ago and now we're finally in a different landscape.  In the early 'Aughts consumers really couldn't make cinema level image quality.  I mean, the best we could do back then was rig up those goofy lens adapter machines and film a rotating disc capturing light from vintage lenses with a camcorder.

I completely agree. Would be nice to turn back time, but of course we are where we are.

I think a few things are going on... Shift to social media posts, shorter content, YouTube. Big shift to personalities, clickbait, TV style content, away from magazines, articles, blogs. Shift to Facebook groups instead of forums. Shift to phones instead of laptops. It all encourages a lower quality of discourse and content. The shills and PR industry completely control the popular influencer scene which in itself gobbles up 90% of the attention in the camera community online. It is a dreadful state of affairs.

Then there is the fact that not just the consumer camera market has fallen away, but the entire enthusiast sub-$1000 market as well has gone. In fact there will be no more interesting new cameras under $1500. Lines like the Fuji X-T stuff will soon be over $2000. The existing kit is all really capable especially if you look at eBay. So the Sigma Fp and Panasonic S1 for £1000 is now what enthusiasts on a budget will go for. Not new models. Nothing new can compete with that for same price. So that market is completely gone now. It has been killed by phones AND by itself!

So the days of the $1000 Panasonic GH1 being more creative and better looking than small chip expensive pro camcorders where a one off special era. Nearest modern equivalent I suppose would be to go and buy a Fuji X-T4 instead of a Cinema EOS camera... It isn't the same kind of creative choice. They are both so similar in terms of the image.

So with the affordable stuff dead, and new stuff will be at $2500, $3500 and $5000-$6000. So enthusiast/pros, pros and pros.

That is where the manufacturers are all now concentrated on. It is a high ticket price for entry now to a new camera system with cutting edge new technology.

The other thing is that there are much bigger gaps between camera releases now. GH1 was on a yearly cycle, then 2-years. Now it is not uncommon for 4-5 year gaps.

So behaviour of average enthusiast is probably along the lines of... Search YouTube for general topic, like what is best camera for weddings and video. Salesmen disguised as photographers will advise. Customer will go to B&H or Amazon via an affiliate link and buy the camera. Then talk about it on Facebook and post all the results from it on Instagram. They will not go so deep as to visit a forum like this. It's a shame but that's the way it is.

Behaviour of a pro is more along the lines of, I already know what I want pretty much... Time to upgrade from Nikon D850 to a Z9. Or EOS R5 to R3. Locked in by huge investment in existing lenses. Might occasionally drop by on a blog to read a long article from a fellow professional. Then too busy working and making money to contribute to a forum. Gear and technology fully established and nothing new. Even guys like John Brawley probably don't have much new to say about Blackmagic cameras for the time being. They are definitely less engaged with the regular user online, than they were. Perhaps also partly because of not being able to take criticism or alternative views to their own 🙂

So future for this site?

I don't want to do social media much. Find it boring and frivolous. Prefer to get stuck in to an obsessive big topic and really go for it. Go deep into it. Write a book about it. You can't do that in 180 characters or whatever. It is a drip drip of stills. YouTube is a treadmill you can't get off. I am not sure what future has in store for my livelihood, going to be a big hole in it if EOSHD is obsolete.

7 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

The Sea-change unfolded starting with the 5DII and it was always a wild ride.  Now?  Damn near everyone has a pretty awesome motion picture imaging device.

Yep, but we always want more, never satisfied or fully settled. It is just that with the sheer image quality and capabilities we have now it seems more and more silly to want the next great thing, and we are taking incremental steps rather than seeing any big changes in concept now.

7 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

I know for myself I'm actually retro and like to play with things well behind the bleeding edge.   For instance, there's not a lot of people in general that would be interested anymore in me hacking another GH1 like I did last week, but in 2010?  Man, that would launch a thread of a 1,000 responses.

Yeah true. The community around that camera was amazingly varied wasn't it? So many subjects to discuss. Whereas I feel with the newer cameras it is always about shopping advice and which one to pick.

[BTM_Pix]

24 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

So with the affordable stuff dead, and new stuff will be at $2500, $3500 and $5000-$6000. So enthusiast/pros, pros and pros.

Panasonic announcing that they are now officially exiting the sub GH6 market completely is the official end of that era.

Their rationale is that anyone wanting to take high quality photos and videos will now buy a €1200 smartphone.

I'd sooner have a €1000 camera and a €200 phone but I'm not the market so I can see their point.

They caused this themselves by still even now having terrible integration with phones when the writing has been on the wall for years about how people would make and share imagery.

 

[Andrew Reid]

8 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

They caused this themselves by still even now having terrible integration with phones when the writing has been on the wall for years about how people would make and share imagery.

Indeed that had since around 2014 to do something about it, but when you look at how long Canon and Nikon milked DSLRs, it's easy to see something as radical as a shift to connected devices and apps might be a bit beyond what their management understand.

Sony had Super 35mm size CMOS sensors back in the high-end R1 with live view and back of lens really close to the sensor like a mirrorless camera, all they needed to do was a mount!

Instead they badgered on with DSLRs for 5 whole years until the NEX system came out then didn't bother doing a "proper" mirrorless camera until the full frame A7 in 2013. From 2005 with R1, to 2013 with A7 that is a lot of time lost dicking about isn't it?

I am surprised there is not some sort of dock that in 10 seconds makes a Facebook size proxy of all the shots on your mirrorless camera and puts them in a folder on your smartphone via USB C.

Fast, easy, charges both camera and phone whilst you wait!

[BTM_Pix]

8 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

From 2005 with R1, to 2013 with A7 that is a lot of time lost dicking about isn't it?

Or just drip feeding depending on your level of cynicism 😉 

8 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I am surprised there is not some sort of dock that in 10 seconds makes a Facebook size proxy of all the shots on your mirrorless camera and puts them in a folder on your smartphone via USB C.

Fast, easy, charges both camera and phone whilst you wait!

The mad thing is that Sony had the integration solution between real cameras and smartphone nearly 10 years ago with the QX cameras.

It was possibly ahead of its time when it launched but I've no idea why they haven't resurrected the concept in the meantime.

[Andrew Reid]

Speaking of attempts to bridge the gap...

This definitely should have had more legs than it did!

Lovely huge OLED screen. Full version of Android. SIM card slot.

It was priced crazily high when it came out and photographers stuck their noses up at it because it didn't have a joystick.

Normal people just couldn't afford it or justify it.

But I reckon if they had kept this concept going and made a new slimmer mount than NX, with some nice lenses to go with it and full frame sensor, this would have been a long term winner from Samsung.

That QX thing was definitely ahead of its time.

I can see why nobody bought it though.

Not good enough for enthusiasts. Not slim enough for consumers to pocket on a night out.

[FHDcrew]

9 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Speaking of attempts to bridge the gap...

This definitely should have had more legs than it did!

Lovely huge OLED screen. Full version of Android. SIM card slot.

It was priced crazily high when it came out and photographers stuck their noses up at it because it didn't have a joystick.

Normal people just couldn't afford it or justify it.

But I reckon if they had kept this concept going and made a new slimmer mount than NX, with some nice lenses to go with it and full frame sensor, this would have been a long term winner from Samsung.

That QX thing was definitely ahead of its time.

I can see why nobody bought it though.

Not good enough for enthusiasts. Not slim enough for consumers to pocket on a night out.

Would be interesting if the MotionCam team could get RAW video out of it!

[BTM_Pix]

4 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

This definitely should have had more legs than it did!

Lovely huge OLED screen. Full version of Android. SIM card slot.

It was priced crazily high when it came out and photographers stuck their noses up at it because it didn't have a joystick.

Normal people just couldn't afford it or justify it.

But I reckon if they had kept this concept going and made a new slimmer mount than NX, with some nice lenses to go with it and full frame sensor, this would have been a long term winner from Samsung.

If you've still go it then it would definitely be worth doing a retrospective review blog post about it !

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

Yeah still got it. Only downside it is Android 4.4 or something so no Motion Cam raw video or newer apps.

It would be a great thing to try and root and to install a modern version of Android on it, but have a feeling might be bit complicated as it probably has a lot of custom hardware, especially the APS-C sensor side of it!

May pop the NX-L on it and a full frame lens and take it for a walkies

[Andrew Reid]

Developer options can be enabled so will see if it can be rooted.

You could argue this is what the back of most cameras should look like in 2022.

[BTM_Pix]

9 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Developer options can be enabled so will see if it can be rooted.

Wonder if it might be worth picking up the RX100 style GC100 Android compact they did to experiment with that ?

They are cheap and plentiful on eBay and it seems you can root it.

https://androidmtk.com/root-samsung-galaxy-camera-ek-gc100

 

[Andrew Reid]

Might try rooting it then, but not sure there are any custom ROMs so might be stuck with Android 4.2 which is the latest update before they gave up on it!

Some modern apps do still work on it though...

I tried the beta APK of Motion Cam and that doesn't install unfortunately.

[Andrew Reid]

Something that does work is the NX-L so it is full frame now.

With the magic of some bluetac to fool the OS into thinking there is a lens attached (no "shoot without lens" option)

A RAW frame to peep at

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1fPLD7KVWjpLdC9gQEAUjda4vkAdrlweZ?usp=sharing

Bluetac trick:

[fuzzynormal]

5 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Big shift to personalities, clickbait, TV style content, away from magazines, articles, blogs. Shift to Facebook groups instead of forums. Shift to phones instead of laptops. It all encourages a lower quality of discourse and content. The shills and PR industry completely control the popular influencer scene which in itself gobbles up 90% of the attention ...It is a dreadful state of affairs.

Modern culture is in a bit of a vortex with this, I think.  It's not just cameras.  Society has to figure out if it can evolve beyond this somehow --or if the majority of us are perfectly fine with being sophisticatedly exploited by our corporate overlords.

I still visit forums because that's my comfort zone.  It's a form of interaction built upon years of usenet and also the communal gee-whiz-ness of personal computers from back in the day.  But, hell, I was born in the 60's, man.  I lived in a different world. 

Your earlier metaphor is apt.  Some of us like a novel, but most people prefer a photo pamphlet. 

[Andrew Reid]

We have evolved into a dangerous form of media that's for sure. It's addictive, truth bending, ADHD and heavily sponsored.

Thinking of starting PhoneRaw.com which will try and get people to take more artistic shots with smartphones and learn the whole workflow of raw, both for stills and video.

If it is time up for traditional cameras (for me at least) then you have to know when to step aside and let the Geralds and Fros take over because you know then it is a bit of a lost cause and not what it was in 2014.

[PannySVHS]

Phoneraw sounds pretty cool. Regarding pinned topics, eight could be a good number, providing a spot for the original phone raw thread and some other hotties like the BMMCC one fi. It would fit the bill and spirit as well I feel. Just 28! was too many imo.:)

There are a whole bunch of youtube channels done by people who appreciated the credo of small and old school gear and great dedication of using it. They are all around the 500 to 4000 followers strong. So, still good stuff out there, seemingly overwhelmed by the clickbaiters. If Gerald would be the only one, he would be a great addition to the voices of camera techies. But the large number of copycats is dull as dull can be.

Hopefully i get around within the next weeks to contribute some fun stuff. Just a bit busy with the heat and tideous jobs. Got a nice onetaker with the BMMCC, shot with the Canon FD SSC 35mm f2 on a focal reducer. I used a nice little old school trick at the beginning of the sequence and a self built mini jib. It´s gonna be a great pleasure to share all that with you very soon, dear friends. cheers and have a nice week!

[kye]

21 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Hello everyone.

Forum is 50/50 sharing EOSHD with my content. So half the traffic goes to posts on the forum and half goes to my articles and content.

I would like to make some changes to EOSHD to make it more sustainable and grow again after a difficult period.

1. Definitely want to keep in touch and talk to my mates here on the forum. So not going to close the place down or suddenly let it go dark. How do people feel about a Reddit group or a Discord server, which are more smartphone friendly and a bit more about realtime chat and problem solving compared to a thread on a forum which may stretch over many pages and takes a lot of time to delve into? Maybe a better medium for lighter discussions and chat?

2. Financial side of EOSHD is not good at the moment. The forum might have to make way for the blog to put the attention 100% on my content. I can't see a viable way to make money from the forum. I don't think I want to put advertising everywhere either. If you can suggest a way to fund the forum and keep it going, I'd like to know your thoughts on that.

3. Small number of regular users are creating most of the content. We need to grow. Any ideas related to this very welcome. I can't really get my head around it. A very busy forum has crossed into that dangerous territory where a very small minority of regular users are making 99% of the posts. We need a more diverse range of topics and to not have the few interesting pieces flooded with 20 pages of armchair opinions 🙂

4. How the forum shares the domain with my own content needs to change especially on smartphones. If anyone can suggest new forum software that integrates seamlessly with a blog I am all ears as cannot seem to find any at all.

5. If forum is to come to an end after 11 years, it will because all replacements, shake-ups, redesigns and all ideas are exhausted and it becomes financially unviable for me to run it. I didn't agree at all with the way C5D suddenly dumped their forum. All that info and all those posts in the bin. I didn't know what the rationale was behind it at all. Selling it to Mitch at Planet5D was a complete dick move. People (and their opinions) are not pawns to be traded around for money.

So I am all for constructive criticism on how we can make the forum grow again, be more interesting again and be financially viable.

How can we get some of the members back we lost?

Why are they not interested in posting here any more?

Is the general topic of cameras and video in decline?

And let's look to the positives of this place as well.

What works best? How can we play to our strengths and be relevant?

Over and out.

Andrew

Hi Andrew - some thoughts for your consideration..

A few observations.

I'm registered with a number of the other forums and chat sites (Facebook, Discord, etc) and they're either dead or are full of one-line posts where almost no real discussion can take place.  Having a forum means that nuance and complex topics can be discussed - this seems to be one of the most active camera forums around so I'd suggest keeping it as a forum.  It's the only place that has kept my attention about cameras.

I don't think that cameras or video are in decline - quite the opposite, however it's changing.  Looking at your recent pinned threads was very illuminating - there are more and more cameras and as they get better over time there is less and less reason to upgrade.  This means that there will be less and less people who all own the same camera.  I think it used to make sense to organise all discussions by camera model but that seems to be less and less useful.
I think there are two types of topics now:
1) what should I buy / should I buy camera X? (purchase advice), and, 
2) wow - video is hard - now I have my camera WTF do I do with it? (accessories advice / technique / etc)

In the (few) years I've been around my impression is that the brand you have built for yourself and the blog is 'call it how you see it' and in alignment with this the forums are a bit more like that too (as compared with other PR-centric or PC-centric approaches).  

The site is also a rare home to discussions that are more reminiscent of cinematography rather than technology (for example, discussions of c-mount lenses, classic cameras like early Pan models and BM models, etc).  Yes, there are more than a few people who can't see past the specifications, but many who prefer the image of a 2K Alexa with vintage primes over an 8K camera with a low-distortion zoom.   

Some suggestions.

I suggest a strategy of playing to your strengths and harnessing your interests.  What I mean by this is:

• Embrace the 'call it how you see it' approach, and just write more content.
  You have written about cameras, the industry, lenses, and various other topics, and I think this is still useful and desirable content.  You've lamented not getting review models because you didn't kowtow to brands PR departments, but I don't think this is a barrier - when the NDA expires and we see a dozen 'reviews' of a product why not watch them and then share your thoughts?  With a bit of careful attention to the footage posted and reading between the lines on who says what, quite a lot can be deduced and I'm sure that your audience would be keen to hear your thoughts instead of having to watch all the videos / articles about it.
  I'd also encourage you to share your thoughts not just on the products but also what they mean too.  If your impression is that something is yet another soul-less spec chasing camera with mediocre colour science in a system with no practical lenses then that's something people would like to hear.  If the opposite is true, they'd like to hear that too.
   
• You seem to love smartphones and they're definitely eating the market from the bottom-up, so embrace that.  I suggest you include those on the forums too.  The cameras in them are almost overlapping with the sensor sizes and dynamic range of good S16 cameras, so why not just treat them like any other camera and discuss them here too.  While most of us won't have the latest android whatever-it-is model of phone, most of us don't have the R5C or Komodo either, and yet they're still popular subjects to discuss, so I don't think that phones are really any different.
   
• Talk about the industry.  Talk about technique.  Talk about accessories.  Talk about camera-related lens-related cinema-related broadcast-related streaming-related editing-related audio-related post-production-related everything, whatever interests you.  The audience for this stuff must be absolutely enormous when there are millions and millions of people who live-stream or run a YT channel or simply want to get more from the camera in their phone.  If your audience is everyone that's interested in recording their own video, then your audience has probably multiplied in size by a million since you started this site.
   
• In terms of the forum, I suggest this:
  Collapse all the sub-forums into the main forum (we all know that sub-forums are where threads go to die) so just let the forum flow - it will keep it looking busy but not unmanageable and will focus all the attention on it.  
  The only sub-forum should be the one for hot-topics like the politics thread you recently created.  This will allow you to direct any discussions that get a little heated into that sub-forum and will 'cool off' those topics which is potentially required so that will work in your favour.
   
• Create a new forum post for every new blog post.  I don't look at the sites main page but whenever you post a thread about an article I see it and normally go read it so I can understand peoples replies in context.  I'm not sure what your stats say about how much traffic the forums drive to the blog posts?

Fundamentally, more people are doing video than ever before, but honesty and experience (without a vested interest) is rarer than ever, so there is more demand than ever before for your insights.  I suggest playing to your strengths and just up your output.

Hope that's useful 🙂