Canon R7 User Experience

[newfoundmass]

I think, for its price, the R7 is a very compelling camera for a lot of people. I think people arguing that the price is too high are being a bit silly. Given it's capabilities I think the price is fair, even if Canon keeps doing Canon things (🔨). 

The rolling shutter is a deal breaker for me, as I film fast action sports, and hearing inconsistent results about overheating would make me nervous to use for a lot of my work, but I think it's very good for a lot of people's needs, especially if you're not filming any fast movement. The crops and stuff are definitely a bummer, but they're limitations that are relatively easy to work around. 

[Brian Williams]

On 8/20/2022 at 10:40 AM, hyalinejim said:

On 8/20/2022 at 9:47 AM, herein2020 said:

To me out of the cameras I have worked with, I would say the S5 is its closest competitor and the S5 outperforms it in low light, has a FF sensor, and higher quality body at $100USD less. 

Wait a second- just to argue something that is completely uneccesary here, the R7 is $1500 and the S5 is $1700. That math doesn't equal $100 less! Where are you getting your S5's, let me in on this deal, I need a new camera and you guys just sucked the excitement out of me about the R7 (which I did actually own a few weeks ago for a whole few days. I was surprised by how much I liked the IBIS with the IS kit lens, and I'm coming from an Panny/Olympus background... but damn you guys ruined this for me, I came here to convince myself to give the R7 another try and now you have me scraping around for an S5. And as a former S1 owner who knows now he shouldn't have sold that S1, theres some serious pride swallowing going on here for me to even consider a lowly S5, the camera I turned my nose up at when it first came out as I tucked my S1 into bed with me).

 

[hyalinejim]

2 hours ago, Brian Williams said:

  On 8/20/2022 at 6:40 PM, hyalinejim said:

I didn't say that!

[Brian Williams]

7 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

I didn't say that!

Haha... "I heard from someone that hyalinejin said that herein2020 said... that your camera sucks!"

I don't know how I ended up with a quote within a quote.

[herein2020]

@Brian Williams

I did a quick google search using their price search tool and the lowest price I saw when I did it for the S5 was around $1400USD, but it could have been used or an international version, I didn't look that closely at the results. 

What made you take back the R7? I really don't think the R7 is that bad at all, it has many great features especially as a true hybrid photo/video camera. The top two selling points for me is the AF and the lens mount. Everything else is middle of the road for me.

If I had to choose all over again after shooting with and owning both the R7 and the S5 I would still pick the R7 again. No matter how many features the S5 has, if your footage is not in focus nothing else matters. Also, with the S5 if you want any continuous AF even DFD you are stuck buying into a dead "alliance" which is the L mount alliance. 

Towards the end of owning the S5 I was literally making compromises every shot due to the focus limitations. I had to ensure people weren't approaching the camera, I had to frame differently, on a gimbal was the worst; I had to use wider lenses, increase the DOF, ensure the subject stayed the same distance from the camera, etc. 

Despite all of its shortcomings, the R7 is a real joy to shoot with. In fact, I like shooting video with the R7 even more than with the R5. No record limit, no overheating at all (so far), XLR adapter option, even the availability of a speedbooster that lets me gain a stop of light with all of my EF lenses....the R7 is exactly what I was looking for when I got it.

Lets not forget photography, IMO its a better hybrid photo/video camera than even the R5 for a fraction of the price.

 

14 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I think, for its price, the R7 is a very compelling camera for a lot of people. I think people arguing that the price is too high are being a bit silly. Given it's capabilities I think the price is fair, even if Canon keeps doing Canon things (🔨). 

The rolling shutter is a deal breaker for me, as I film fast action sports, and hearing inconsistent results about overheating would make me nervous to use for a lot of my work, but I think it's very good for a lot of people's needs, especially if you're not filming any fast movement. The crops and stuff are definitely a bummer, but they're limitations that are relatively easy to work around. 

 

Without a doubt, the rolling shutter is bad. If you shoot sports and action then that's a real let down. Fortunately for me, I don't shoot that type of content so I wasn't too worried about it. I think the price is fair as well, and if its not, they even released the R10 and they show you exactly what they will strip out to get the price even lower.

[ntblowz]

22 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

Despite all of its shortcomings, the R7 is a real joy to shoot with. In fact, I like shooting video with the R7 even more than with the R5. No record limit, no overheating at all (so far), XLR adapter option, even the availability of a speedbooster that lets me gain a stop of light with all of my EF lenses....the R7 is exactly what I was looking for when I got it.

Lets not forget photography, IMO its a better hybrid photo/video camera than even the R5 for a fraction of the price.

 

As R5 user I m disagree on that! R5 Have better photo quality, oversampled 4k60p option (non on r7) and 4k120p which have way better quality than 1080p120.  Rolling shutter is also less too.  Overheating is a history with v1.6 firmware.

But that time limit is a bummer for long session recording options.

[ntblowz]

But if I didn't have R5 I will most certainly go for R7 for sure.

For majority of the shoot I did R7 ticks a lot of box, I don't think client will see the difference lol 😆 

[herein2020]

3 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

As R5 user I m disagree on that! R5 Have better photo quality, oversampled 4k60p option (non on r7) and 4k120p which have way better quality than 1080p120.  Rolling shutter is also less too.  Overheating is a history with v1.6 firmware.

But that time limit is a bummer for long session recording options.

Definitely all fair points, if image quality is #1 then yes, the R5 clearly wins in every category. But if you are shooting mainly for YT and social media, I think the R7 is more rounded (no time limit, no overheating, XLR audio, no expensive CFExpress required, supports RF, RF-S, EF, and EF-S lenses, decent 32MP photo resolution, auto leveling horizon, smaller body, better battery life, etc.). I always like to think about which camera would I prefer on a trip for travel video/photography and I would personally pick the R7 over the R5. 

With the R5 I see it mainly for me as a replacement for the 5DIV so mostly photos only. I have shot a few video clips with it as a b cam to the C70 and they looked great, but the overheat warning came on after just 30min of shooting a mixture of photos and videos with ambient temps around 98F.  That little warning totally ruined the experience for me; admittedly this was right before the new FW came out that lets you raise the temp limit so I will need to see if that's an improvement.

[Brian Williams]

9 hours ago, herein2020 said:

What made you take back the R7?

I realized I couldn't really afford it at the moment, that's really the only reason I returned it. Just like the GH6 I had right before it that also got returned for same reason. It sounds like GAS, but those two really are the only cameras I've bought in the past year, been camera-less for a year, it's hard, I needed a taste.

If those two cameras had a baby... Well the first baby might end up with Panny's AF and Canon's rolling shutter, but if they had a second baby with Panny's stabilization and ProRes specs with Canon's AF... and then maybe it turns out the father isn't really the GH6 but in fact an S1 and the baby got his sensor... man, to dream.

[MrSMW]

10 hours ago, herein2020 said:

Towards the end of owning the S5 I was literally making compromises every shot due to the focus limitations. I had to ensure people weren't approaching the camera, I had to frame differently, on a gimbal was the worst; I had to use wider lenses, increase the DOF, ensure the subject stayed the same distance from the camera, etc. 

This and why I have replaced it in my kit with an OM-1.

It’s also replacing my ZV1 which overheated on the last 3 jobs.

Plus, other than flipping to 8 bit, the S5 has a 30 min recording limit which caused me issues in several scenarios and the ZV1 couldn’t shoot 4K 50p.

The S5 was borderline weight-wise on my Crane M3 gimbal but a new gimbal for next year will fix that as the OM-1 with the lens I have (12-40) is the same as the S5 with the 20-60.

The R7 was a strong contender for the role, but for my needs, the OM-1 ticked more boxes and that R7 crop (4K 50p) put me off!

ALL great bits of kit in isolation, it’s just what meets your needs best at the end of the day.

[herein2020]

13 hours ago, Brian Williams said:

I realized I couldn't really afford it at the moment, that's really the only reason I returned it. Just like the GH6 I had right before it that also got returned for same reason. It sounds like GAS, but those two really are the only cameras I've bought in the past year, been camera-less for a year, it's hard, I needed a taste.

If those two cameras had a baby... Well the first baby might end up with Panny's AF and Canon's rolling shutter, but if they had a second baby with Panny's stabilization and ProRes specs with Canon's AF... and then maybe it turns out the father isn't really the GH6 but in fact an S1 and the baby got his sensor... man, to dream.

 

I really think the R7 is your best bet at the moment unless you shoot sports. The rolling shutter is too high if you shoot sports but IMO it really is the best option when picking between Canon and Panasonic at this price point. It comes down to what is important to you; if AF isn't important to you and image quality is then the S5 is a no brainer except for the dead L mount alliance and limited expensive L mount lens selections unless you use an adapter for everything; with an adapter your only option is MF for video. The GH6 might be the better pick over the S5 due to the MFT lens options; massive lens selection but still terrible AF system.

If you do shoot sports then I definitely wouldn't recommend the S5 or the GH6 because of the AF performance. For sports at this price point you would probably have to look at Sony, Nikon, or Fuji. 

If you value AF, a massive lens selection, reliable 4K, and reliable photography features then the R7 wins hands down; but the reality is that the S5 and probably the GH6 will definitely beat it in DR, lowlight performance, customizability, and video tools. Another downside to the S5 that I forgot about until @MrSMW mentioned it is the crop when shooting 4K60FPS. With the R7 and a speedbooster there is no crop in any mode unless you select the crop mode. The S5's time limit never bothered me since I had a cinema camera for long form content and I don't mind 8bit if the camera is locked down on a tripod with good lighting, so I still had options with the S5 for long form content.

Although I do have the C70 as my A cam, I would feel quite comfortable shooting with just the R7 for social media projects and personal projects it is that good. I would probably even be fine shooting a whole wedding with it, since weddings here don't pay much for video.

I also saw that some F1.8 RF-S lenses are planned at some point, so the R7's ecosystem is just getting started. In the meantime with an RF to EF adapter you immediately get access to a ton of cheap EF and EF-S glass and with a speedbooster you gain a stop of light and access to EF glass all while keeping the native AF performance.

 

13 hours ago, MrSMW said:

The R7 was a strong contender for the role, but for my needs, the OM-1 ticked more boxes and that R7 crop (4K 50p) put me off!

ALL great bits of kit in isolation, it’s just what meets your needs best at the end of the day.

 

I think the crop is the most confusing spec of the R7; it does not have a crop at 4K60FPS or 4K50FPS. It has an optional crop mode and when it is set to that mode it only lets you shoot at 60FPS or 50FPS (NTSC or PAL), but you do not have to use that mode.

I think the crop mode would be useful when shooting with FF lenses and a speedbooster; it would let you get back some of that reach you lost by using FF lenses without having to carry more lenses, so the 24-105 combined with a speedbooster on the R7 would be around 170mm at the long end when the crop mode is selected. I am guessing the cropped mode is not line skipped so the quality might even be a little better than shooting in 4K line skipped mode at 60/50FPS since you can't use 4K Fine mode when shooting at those frame rates.

I have no idea why Canon did not include 30FPS or 24FPS when in that mode, but it is definitely a source of a lot of confusion.  To make it more confusing, the sensor is a crop sensor, so YT really went wild over the added crop factor if that mode is selected.

[markr041]

Crop mode 4K 60p is great.

https://youtu.be/b0xOKtybpPg

[Brian Williams]

7 hours ago, herein2020 said:

dead L mount alliance

Dead?

[herein2020]

10 hours ago, markr041 said:

Crop mode 4K 60p is great.

https://youtu.be/b0xOKtybpPg

Nice video, that's what I envisioned using the crop mode for. The R7 is loosely marketed as a 7D replacement so giving it a mode where it has extra reach only makes sense in my opinion.

7 hours ago, Brian Williams said:

Dead?

 

I don't want to veer too far off topic, but if you dig into the "alliance" beyond the marketing hype you will see that Leica is prohibitively expensive, and Sigma yields inconsistent results when mounted to a Panasonic (hit or miss AF, lens IS, etc.). So basically if you want the best experience with a Panasonic L mount camera you are only guaranteed to get it with Panasonic lenses which are expensive, cannot be adapted for any other mount (that I know of), and are limited.

To me, an alliance where you can only reliably use one vendor and that one vendor isn't producing many lenses and those lenses can't be used with any other camera is a dead alliance in my book.

[MrSMW]

15 hours ago, herein2020 said:

I think the crop is the most confusing spec of the R7; it does not have a crop at 4K60FPS or 4K50FPS

Ah… I understood it that there was a crop with 4K 50/60p and one of the things I wish to avoid in any future camera system is a difference in crop shooting hybrid.

It has grown to bother me with the S1H and S1R…

I don’t mind a cropped sensor camera; M4/3 or APSC, but I want consistent focal lengths when shooting hybrid which is another reason I went with the OM-1.

[Kisaha]

9 hours ago, herein2020 said:

Nice video, that's what I envisioned using the crop mode for. The R7 is loosely marketed as a 7D replacement so giving it a mode where it has extra reach only makes sense in my opinion.

 

I don't want to veer too far off topic, but if you dig into the "alliance" beyond the marketing hype you will see that Leica is prohibitively expensive, and Sigma yields inconsistent results when mounted to a Panasonic (hit or miss AF, lens IS, etc.). So basically if you want the best experience with a Panasonic L mount camera you are only guaranteed to get it with Panasonic lenses which are expensive, cannot be adapted for any other mount (that I know of), and are limited.

To me, an alliance where you can only reliably use one vendor and that one vendor isn't producing many lenses and those lenses can't be used with any other camera is a dead alliance in my book.

Can you elaborate on that crop factor? How do you plan to use it and when?

Also, did you have any issues editing those files?

Where do you live?! (General place, not your address!)

 

[herein2020]

17 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Can you elaborate on that crop factor? How do you plan to use it and when?

Also, did you have any issues editing those files?

Where do you live?! (General place, not your address!)

 

I plan to rig the R7 with a speedbooster which turns it into a FF FOV camera, but the downside is FF lenses don't have the reach that crop lenses typically do. The kit lens is a 18-150mm lens, my most useful lens is the FF Canon EF 24-105mm F4.0 However, if I use the crop mode on the R7 and a speedbooster I can extend that to around 24-160mm at F2.8. 

The extra reach will be useful when shooting runway shows and the models are posing at the start of the runway, or the guest speaker never walks down the runway, or weddings where you want a closeup of the ring exchange, etc. etc. pretty much anytime your current lens just doesn't get you close enough.

On my editing workstation the files are marginally editable without proxies. I use Davinci Resolve, and my GPU is an RTX2080 Ti with a Core i9 14 core CPU. I used compressed IPB in the R7 and CLOG3 which is H.265 422 10 bit footage. NVIDIA can't accelerate that footage so the CPU had to do all of the work.

For the footage that was 30FPS I could edit it without proxies as long as I was ok with occasional dropped frames and a little stuttering. For the 60FPS footage I needed proxies or optimized media. The R5's footage is the same way, proxies or optimized media is the only way I can playback the footage in real time. The C70 by comparison uses XFAV-C and both 30FPS and 60FPS footage plays smoothly. RAW 4K out of the C70 and RAW 8K out of the R5 of course plays perfectly fine.

I live in FL USA. In the summer here it averages 95F + with up to 100% humidity so everything I buy I keep overheating in mind. The R5 overheated even with the latest FW at the time in less than 30min at an outdoor runway show when shooting mostly photos with a few 4K video clips mixed in. The 4K wasn't even the HQ mode so I don't care what anyone on YT says....the R5 WILL overheat still to this day in any 4K mode during real world use in hotter climates. Once the warning came on I stopped shooting all video clips because for all I know it might have stopped taking pictures next which would have been far worse.

At the same fashion show the C70 ran for hours with no problems. I am hoping the R7's ambient temp handling performance is at least as good as the S5; the S5 never overheated once.

[Django]

Interesting to hear the R5 still overheats albeit in hotter environments. I guess the R5C is still ahead of it for reliability purposes alone. Thanks for sharing that, was considering a second hand R5 since the latest update but no longer. 

[herein2020]

2 hours ago, Django said:

Interesting to hear the R5 still overheats albeit in hotter environments. I guess the R5C is still ahead of it for reliability purposes alone. Thanks for sharing that, was considering a second hand R5 since the latest update but no longer. 

I was on FW version 1.5 at the time. FW v1.6 came out after that and lets you change the temp warning to a higher limit; I haven't tested FW 1.6 yet.  But with FW v1.5 I had shot about 800 pictures then switched to a few video clips here and there, not in direct sunlight just handholding and shooting in regular 4K60FPS and the warning came on. It was the middle of the show so I didn't have time to see if the timer came on as well or anything like that; I just immediately stopped shooting all video clips.

BTW the EVF lag in the R5 is very annoying. For runway shows there are 3 specific shots you are supposed to get for every walk; the lag was so bad that my keeper rate dropped almost 40%.  Since I was also using flash I couldn't even spray and pray due to the flash recycle times. I sent it in to Canon CPS and they sent it back saying nothing is wrong with it. Its great to be able to shoot b roll clips here and there with a single camera, but I am strongly thinking about hanging on to my 5DIV for a few more years.

 

[ntblowz]

Firmware 1.6 is much better..  shoot a whole night in 4k50p which I never did before and not a single warning, that also what prompted me to cancel my R7 pre-order.

The sole purpose of R7 for me was unlimited 4k50p, but after that youtube test turns out R5 can shoot longer than R7 especially on 4k60p on outdoor daylight.