Lenses

[mercer]

14 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

That would be a great website wouldn't it?

Put in a film you like and it tells you what lenses were used and the nearest suspected stills equivalent.

Yeah that would be awesome. A lot of work, though. 

It’s one of the reasons I like c-mount lenses as well... they seem to be miniature versions of their behemoth cine lens counterparts. I was hoping to use some with my Micro, but I’m not too sure I’m going to end up keeping it. Great little camera, but I just enjoy working with ML Raw in FF too much and I barely have enough time to finish the projects I have going on with that camera.

Back to your point... I wonder what the closest still lens there is to a Cooke Panchro?

[webrunner5]

Yeah but if you are younger now you can still use these Cine lenses for years and years. I don't see how a even 1,000 Dollars investment in one is a big burden when you can move them from camera to camera. That was and is the beauty of PL lenses. They fit nearly every camera even if you jump ship as they say.

B4 lenses even fall in that category. They are still in with the big boy stuff. They have been around for 40, maybe 50 years now or more. The serious Broadcast stuff rarely changes fast. TV stations can not afford to change very often. And they are where the rubber hits the road as they say..

I really don't think I would take a Canon, Nikon f1.2 lenses over a Zeiss CP.2. Not if I was serious about video down the road. T2.1 is pretty damn good on there normal lenses. This is not 1996 where you Have to shoot at ISO 64 or something less now.

[BTM_Pix]

25 minutes ago, mercer said:

Back to your point... I wonder what the closest still lens there is to a Cooke Panchro?

In the great equaliser of the granite worktop and colourful booze bottles then it would likely be Samyang again  

This 50mm lens shootout is about as comprehensive as it gets and includes the Cooke Panchro.

http://www.mikkotimonen.com/50mm-shootout

 

[mercer]

22 hours ago, noone said:

Canon FD 50 1.2 L best legacy lens by far (though a long way behind the Sony Zeiss).

 

I’m still trying to work out the idiosyncrasies of that lens but so far I really like what I’m seeing.

22 hours ago, noone said:

 

[heart0less]

5 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

In the great equaliser of the granite worktop and colourful booze bottles then it would likely be Samyang again  

This 50mm lens shootout is about as comprehensive as it gets and includes the Cooke Panchro.

http://www.mikkotimonen.com/50mm-shootout

Oh my God, I'm terrified by how Lomo spherical lenses can change the appearance of the subject.

 

Jokes aside, Rokinon / aka Samyang would look really nice if it wasn't for the busy bokeh it gave. 

[BTM_Pix]

6 minutes ago, heart0less said:

Jokes aside, Rokinon / aka Samyang would look really nice if it wasn't for the busy bokeh it gave. 

It really does defy its price in that test.

Top tip is open two YouTube tabs, park the first one at the Master Prime and then use the other tab to compare the others against it as thats the only comparison to make  

 

[mercer]

20 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah but if you are younger now you can still use these Cine lenses for years and years. I don't see how a even 1,000 Dollars investment in one is a big burden when you can move them from camera to camera. That was and is the beauty of PL lenses. They fit nearly every camera even if you jump ship as they say.

B4 lenses even fall in that category. They are still in with the big boy stuff. They have been around for 40, maybe 50 years now or more. The serious Broadcast stuff rarely changes fast. TV stations can not afford to change very often. And they are where the rubber hits the road as they say..

I really don't think I would take a Canon, Nikon f1.2 lenses over a Zeiss CP.2. Not if I was serious about video down the road. T2.1 is pretty damn good on there normal lenses.

My problem with cinema lenses are that they are huge. I need/want the smallest footprint I can get. But valid point about their adaptability on modern cameras. And if I was making a film with a real crew, I wouldn’t hesitate to rent one.

[webrunner5]

You have to grow some balls and do it like it is suppose to be done. Anyone can half ass it. A crew using bounce lights, Audio and believe me you can get by doing it. Everyone gets out of your way and lets you do it. They will be fascinated by you and your crew. Trust me. People that make stuff happen make stuff happen. They lead.

Best advice I can ever give you. Look like you know what you are doing and go forward. That is how you get though life. Lead, don't follow. Go for the ring. Don't suck hind tit. You will always be lacking if you slack off and do the least. But treat everyone equal, everyone is not a leader, they are looking for one. You will reap the rewards even in your video stuff. I am not saying step over people.

Just learn your craft, use the best stuff there is you can afford and go for it. You can't never be best at every aspect of Video, never happen. If all you can do, and do that great is one aspect of video you are way ahead of the average person. Have others help you. That is why Hollywood exists. Combined skills in one area with one goal.

[mercer]

5 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

You have to grow some balls and do it like it is suppose to be done. Why half ass it. A crew using bounce lights, Audio and believe me you can get by doing it. Everyone gets out of your way and lets you do it. They will be fascinated by you and your crew. Trust me. People that make stuff happen make stuff happen.

Best advice I can ever give you. Look like you know what you are doing and go forward. That is how you get though life. Lead, don't follow. Go for the ring. Don't suck hind tit.

I appreciate the sentiment behind your comment but reality is reality and more often than not the straightest line between points A and B is the best option. Otherwise, everybody would use manual cinema lenses instead of AF or other modern conveniences.

I have a friend that owns two native lenses to shoot his films... a prime and a zoom. One day I brought an adapter and a good manual lens along with me for him to try on his camera and although he preferred the image from the vintage prime, he never has asked me to borrow the lens. And although he prefers the image from his native prime, 99% of his shots are taken with the native zoom.

And I don’t blame him one bit. Native lenses are way more convenient and native zooms, especially good modern ones, are more than good enough to tell a great story.

Hell, if I was a smarter man, I’d probably sell off all of my lenses and buy a Canon 24-70mm 2.8 lens and make my films with just that lens until I have the resources to truly utilize a set of prime lenses.

In fact, the more I test my lenses and realize what matters with this hobby of mine, I can truly see myself doing something like that. I’d keep a small set of Nikkor primes and pick up the Canon 24-70mm 2.8. For the films that are more run and gun, I’ll use the zoom and for the projects where I have a little more time and freedom, I’ll use the Nikkors.

But whoever said I was smart... hahaha. 

[webrunner5]

I really don't think I would Ever use a zoom lens for video if I had the money to buy primes. Just my thought. Sure ENG work, serious stuff, Nah. Sort of sounds like you are clueless where the actors, scenery is really suppose to be located. No storyboard, pre thought involved in it. Luck Rarely works out trust me.

As a writer that thought ought to have been in your mind when you wrote it. That is how a story flows. You can't take chunks of what happened when you got there and make something fluid. You have to direct it to make it happen. I want Bob right here on the X. Move, you are fired. You have a dream, a mission, make it happen. That is the difference between followers and leaders. Hmm, I got lucky, or I made it happen. Apply that to your life, don't count on luck. 50/50 Never works. The odds are against you.

[mercer]

25 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I really don't think I would Ever use a zoom lens for video if I had the money to buy primes. Just my thought. Sure ENG work, serious stuff, Nah. Sort of sounds like you are clueless where the actors, scenery is really suppose to be located. No storyboard, pre thought involved in it. Luck Rarely works out trust me.

As a writer that thought ought to have been in your mind when you wrote it. That is how a story flows. You can't take chunks of what happened when you got there and make something fluid. You have to direct it to make it happen. I want Bob right here on the X. Move, you are fired. You have a dream, a mission, make it happen. That is the difference between followers and leaders. Hmm, I got lucky, or I made it happen. Apply that to your life, don't count on luck. 50/50 Never works. The odds are against you.

As I assume you do not intend any disrespect and in fact intend to inspire the opposite reaction, please take my reply in the same context...

You sound like a cute, inspirational poster on a pediatricians wall. 

As a writer first, I have endless opportunities to create a world to my exact taste. But it’s not always possible in the real world to get exactly what you want, so you write and create according to those limitations. And there is no amount of “leading” or “just getting it done” that will change that.

There’s a reason why most truly indie films take place in one location with only a few characters.

I’m already breaking a couple “rules” with the film I chose to make. And you know what gets me some of the most looks and attention... changing lenses. So, although, I’d rather use a prime lens, or multiple prime lenses, in the end, the story must be told and if a zoom gets that story told, I’d be a moron not to take advantage of it.

I mean, Spielberg used a ton of zooms early in his career. And I’m sure if Hitchcock or Spielberg or Scorsese or DePalma were starting out today, shooting no budget, indie films, they’d shoot handheld on a camera that had IBIS with a native zoom lens attached and they would “get it done.”

[mercer]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

In the great equaliser of the granite worktop and colourful booze bottles then it would likely be Samyang again  

This 50mm lens shootout is about as comprehensive as it gets and includes the Cooke Panchro.

http://www.mikkotimonen.com/50mm-shootout

 

I’m gonna watch this tomorrow when I get on my computer. 

But, in spirit, I agree with your assessment... Samyang/Rokinon lenses pull a lot more than their weight.

There was a great article written by Shane Hurlbut a few years back that I am sure you have read about still lenses that are good enough for the big screen...

https://www.hurlbutacademy.com/director-of-photography-still-lenses/

That article has always resonated with me and my recent lens tests were born from my desire to shoot with a lens that could fit that criteria. 

Other than the Leica and Hasselblad Zeiss, I’ve tested a couple lenses from all of his options and as a set, as you’ve said from your test... Nikon lenses seem to offer the biggest bang for the buck. And although I am a walking contradiction that changes my mind with every passing minute, deep down I think a good set of Nikkors based around my two favorite Nikon lenses, is probably the best path for me.

I’m sure the Samyang lenses could fill the criteria I’m looking for, but I can’t relinquish the size advantages of the ai-s lenses. I think my biggest question going forward is if I should introduce a modern zoom and an L prime into my kit. I’ve been testing the 35mm 1.4 L recently and it’s a pretty remarkable lens but I’m unsure if it’s worth double the price of the Nikkor 35mm 1.4 and since I’m not selling the Nikon, is it worth having both.

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

As I assume you do not intend any disrespect and in fact intend to inspire the opposite reaction, please take my reply in the same context...

You sound like a cute, inspirational poster on a pediatricians wall. 

As a writer first, I have endless opportunities to create a world to my exact taste. But it’s not always possible in the real world to get exactly what you want, so you write and create according to those limitations. And there is no amount of “leading” or “just getting it done” that will change that.

There’s a reason why most truly indie films take place in one location with only a few characters.

I’m already breaking a couple “rules” with the film I chose to make. And you know what gets me some of the most looks and attention... changing lenses. So, although, I’d rather use a prime lens, or multiple prime lenses, in the end, the story must be told and if a zoom gets that story told, I’d be a moron not to take advantage of it.

I mean, Spielberg used a ton of zooms early in his career. And I’m sure if Hitchcock or Spielberg or Scorsese or DePalma were starting out today, shooting no budget, indie films, they’d shoot handheld on a camera that had IBIS with a native zoom lens attached and they would “get it done.”

What is wrong with attention?? Are you embarrassed about what you are trying to accomplish? You think what you are doing is wrong, not moral or something. It is Maybe your job, your life's desire. Your sure as heck are not going to sneak around doing this stuff your whole life. If you want to do it do it. If not give it up. It's not for you.

Print up some kind of Business card with your email address, your web site and show them what you can, and want to do. It might not be worthy in your eyes but it shows you are trying, you are learning, you Want to succeed. Heck ask for their help, ask them to be in the thing you are trying to create. it isn't going to happen unless you Make it happen.

Trust me I am not cute. I get it done if I want to get it done. I was trained to do that at a young stage of my life. It was life or death in reality. I have never wavered. What you are trying to do overall is not possible sneaking around. It is not cut out for everyone to do all of it. If all you want to do is write than write, nothing wrong with that. Video is Hard.

[mercer]

2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

What is wrong with attention?? Are you embarrassed about what you are trying to accomplish? You think what you are doing is wrong, not moral or something. It is Maybe your job, your life's desire.

Print up some kind of Business card with your email address, your web site and show them what you can, and want to do. It might not be worthy in your eyes but it shows you are trying, you are learning, you Want to succeed. Heck ask for their help, ask them to be in the thing you are trying to create. it isn't going to happen unless you Make it happen.

It’s not about embarrassment, it’s about legally being allowed to shoot at the places I’m shooting at. You need permits and insurance to shoot a film. In a lot of places, you can’t shoot a film in your own house without a permit. Now I would assume that 7 out of 10 times, nobody would care, but when I need to get a shot on a crowded boardwalk, without a bicycle cop giving me grief, I need to be as fast and as inconspicuous as possible.

Hell, when I have my Rode Micro and deadcat attached to my camera, I get more looks and atttention than you can imagine...

Getting this shot handheld, outside of a motel room, ended in a 5 minute conversation from someone who thought I may be a Peeping Tom...

Also, you mentioned earlier about never needing to shoot with an f/1.2 or 1.4 lens... well when you shoot in public, if you get a bystander on video, you would need a release form from them granting me permission to use their image in your film. With a fast lens, they’re so blurred, it doesn’t even matter.

[webrunner5]

You can do ANYTHING if you want to do it. Don't give me that permit stuff. That is a Cop Off. You aren't there for hours, days, weeks. If you want it to happen make it happen. Release form, that is total bullshit, they are by standers. You aren't making a feature film, get real. They are in the public domain. Your making silly excuses.

So make up release forms and give them to them. How hard its that. Make it happen.

[mercer]

16 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

You can do ANYTHING if you want to do it. Don't give me that permit stuff. That is a Cop Off. You aren't there for hours, days, weeks. If you want it to happen make it happen. Release form, that is total bullshit, they are by standers. You aren't making a feature film, get real. They are in the public domain. Your making silly excuses.

So make up release forms and give them to them. How hard its that. Make it happen.

With all due respect, you have no idea what you’re talking about. I know you enjoy arguing with people around here, but trust me, you CANNOT just go and film with a crew in public places and think you’re going to get the shots you need. And even if you could squeak by once or twice, you will eventually get caught and be put on someone’s radar. Then what if you need B-Unit or pick up shots?

And I am making a feature film, otherwise it would have been done a year and a half ago.

[webrunner5]

A feature film with one person, right, trying out 30 different lenses. You are a writer, not a shooter., Nothing wrong with that. It isn't for the meek trust me. If I was meek I could have Never been a ENG shooter or the reporters I worked with, male and female. I would stick the camera up your butt if I had too, along with their mike. That's what is takes.

You don't ask, you just do it permit or not.. If you want something you make it happen. That is what separates the men from the boys.

[Thomas Hill]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

It’s not about embarrassment, it’s about legally being allowed to shoot at the places I’m shooting at. You need permits and insurance to shoot a film.

Exactly.

You don't have to draw attention to yourself to get it done and, in some places, you won't get it done if you draw attention to yourself. For my movie, we shot a conversation in a Starbucks, a nervous breakdown in a grocery store and a stabbing in a barber shop parking lot. All done with no one the wiser.

And that's nothing compared to Escape From Tomorrow that was shot in secret at Disneyland.

[webrunner5]

Just make it happen. Give up the damn excuses. I am going to fall over from old age before this happens, along with everyone else. We all have terrible experiences. Suck it up.

Yeah you either hate my ass or you get off you ass and make it happen. It's up to you. That's the way I roll. No time for losers even now, Take over for me, or just exist. Ugly if not.

You don't Ever want to see what I have seen, I grew up from a kid to a old man in 2 years. They trained me too well. But learned from it and moved forward. Everyone has a skill, utilize it and gain from it. Life is hard as heck. It isn't easy. No excuses.

[mercer]

Anyway, here’s yet another shot from my film...