Lenses

[BTM_Pix]

4 hours ago, JordanWright said:

 

Yeah ive been looking for a few of the Voigts EF lenses for a while, they seem to be absolute murder to get in the UK, I suppose when people buy them they don't sell them? 

Aperture have one of the 20mm 3.5 that @mercer suggested.

https://www.apertureuk.com/voigtlander-20mm-f35-color-skopar-sl-n-ii-ap201150.html

 

[JordanWright]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

@JordanWright but I guess with some of these zooms you're just getting close to your Sigma. To keep it simple, you could look at the Canon 20mm 2.8, or the Tokina 17mm 3.5. I had the older RMC version and I quite liked it.  I never used the newer version, but I assume they're similar. If I was in your position, I'd probably go with the Canon. But I'm a huge fan of the 28mm 1.8 and the 50mm 1.4, so I may be a bit bias.

Yes good point, the original idea was to get lighter lol will look into the Canon 20mm, I used to be more of a 28mm guy aswell, but seem to find myself always wanting wider recently.

 

16 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Aperture have one of the 20mm 3.5 that @mercer suggested.

https://www.apertureuk.com/voigtlander-20mm-f35-color-skopar-sl-n-ii-ap201150.html

 

Never browsed that store before thanks for the find!!!

[BTM_Pix]

4 minutes ago, JordanWright said:

Never browsed that store before thanks for the find!!!

They are good people too.

[JordanWright]

I’m also looking into the Zeiss 18mm 3.5... hmmm decisions! 

[BTM_Pix]

With regard to the Tokina 11-16mm, I'd left it out because, whilst not massive, it's still a bit of a lump if you are looking for something compact.

I've done this quick comparison shot* of it next to the Canon 10-18mm and although there doesn't look to be too much difference its significantly heavier and the 77mm thread will add to the cost of ND filters etc.

What you will get back in return for that extra size and weight though is a great lens that I don't think anyone has ever regretted buying.  I've got it in both Nikon and Canon mounts and I haven't found them particularly wanting against my Nikon 14-24mm f2.8 and Canon 16-35mm f2.8 lenses (albeit they can't be used on FF).

On the other hand, the Canon 10-18 can't compare with it in terms of speed (or handling when it comes to manual focus) but in its favour it adds a bit more range on either end, the stabilisation and the sort of weight that makes it a negligible addition to have in your bag.

The obvious answer is to buy both 🙂

 

 

 

 

* For the benefit of @mercer, the shot was taken on a Sigma Fp with a Mamiya 35mm 645 lens on the Baveyes Medium Format speedbooster 😉

 

[JordanWright]

@BTM_Pix 77mm filters are actually a positive for me, I’m using Nisi IRND 77mm fixed NDs at the moment (highly recommend over the Hoya ProNDs for the BMs) I’d be stepping up to use them on whatever I get. I use 80mm OD ring (with 77mm threads) on the 18-35 so I can use slip on caps. I’ve seen a 11-16 on eBay for sub £200 which is very tempting.

side note: how do are you finding the FP?

 

[BTM_Pix]

35 minutes ago, JordanWright said:

side note: how do are you finding the FP?

In the time that I have actually used it, which was predominantly the two weeks after I got it, I love it.

No question it could do with a viewfinder for me but I'll get the loupe at some point when I begin shooting again.

Based on my experiences with the version of it for the Sigma DP0 then it will do the trick.

The 8 bit internal RAW is pretty good but without any of the RAW having compression it needs an SSD really anyway and there are plenty of really small ones now that make that less of an issue.

[mercer]

12 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

For the benefit of @mercer, the shot was taken on a Sigma Fp with a Mamiya 35mm 645 lens on the Baveyes Medium Format speedbooster

Haha, very nice! I'll most likely buy one some day. How do you like it for photography?

[mercer]

10 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

The 8 bit internal RAW is pretty good but without any of the RAW having compression it needs an SSD really anyway and there are plenty of really small ones now that make that less of an issue.

I wish I could use a card writer because I have a bunch of high speed CF cards.

With that said, what's the smallest SSD you've tested with it? I noticed SmallRig or Tilta has some new handles that have a space for the SSD built into the handle and one that has SSD and a battery with a record button. It seems pretty slick.

On another note, I wish Sigma had chosen a different mount. I understand about their alliance with Panny and Leica, and although Sigma is starting to release some smaller lenses, there aren't enough native lens options to get me excited. More than likely I'd adapt lenses, but then the added size of the adapter/lens dwarfs the camera. I guess m-mount lenses are good options, especially considering the 7artisans/ttartisans options that are being released... like that lovely 28mm 1.4 you have.

Speaking of... I found this video on Vimeo of the FP/28mm 1.4 combo...

 

[mercer]

13 hours ago, JordanWright said:

Yes good point, the original idea was to get lighter lol will look into the Canon 20mm, I used to be more of a 28mm guy aswell, but seem to find myself always wanting wider recently.

With full frame, 28mm to 35mm are basically street shooting lenses for me. I kinda prefer 45mm to 50mm, but I can go handheld with the former, so they're much more versatile.

RE: the Canon 20mm 2.8, I am probably going to buy the lens within the next couple months due to a shoot I'm doing this spring in a car. So if you do get it, please report back with your thoughts and some sample images. 

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

How do you like it for photography?

The 35mm Mamiya?

Like everything else in the past 10 months, I haven't really done enough to draw a conclusion. I got it really cheap and its in OK shape but the focus barrel is really stiff for the first 25% of travel which is a pain.

I got the Baveyes on a really cheap Amazon return deal so once I can go out again I'm looking to get the 80mm and the 210mm.

1 hour ago, mercer said:

With that said, what's the smallest SSD you've tested with it? I noticed SmallRig or Tilta has some new handles that have a space for the SSD built into the handle and one that has SSD and a battery with a record button. It seems pretty slick.

I've got a tiny SSD that I got in an electronics shop in Tokyo that is about the size of a CF card and I've got a SanDisk extreme as well as the Samsung T5. 

The good thing about the T5 is that its well catered for with cage mounts etc.

At some point, I'll get round to doing a roll your own solution using an enclosure like this as it seems a decent form factor for top or bottom mounting.

1 hour ago, mercer said:

On another note, I wish Sigma had chosen a different mount. I understand about their alliance with Panny and Leica, and although Sigma is starting to release some smaller lenses, there aren't enough native lens options to get me excited. More than likely I'd adapt lenses, but then the added size of the adapter/lens dwarfs the camera. I guess m-mount lenses are good options, especially considering the 7artisans/ttartisans options that are being released... like that lovely 28mm 1.4 you have.

It was all about the M mount for me when I got it as the native lenses were all huge and expensive with the exception of the 45mm f2.8 I got wirh it but I definitely think the landscape has changed L mount wise since then.

The 45mm f2.8 is a really decent lens that is well proportioned on the Fp and I was hoping they'd produce more in the same sort of size and the three recent ones they've released (24,35 and 65mm) seem to have delivered on that.

By not chasing the f1.4 dragon and being built from the ground up for mirrorless, they've struck a good balance with cost and size when it comes to matching them with the Fp.

Not that I've been anywhere near a camera shop to be able to have a close look at them but the reviews seem solid too.

I don't what their plans are but they could do with a 90mm and an 18 or 20mm in the same series to round it out.

The other three that they've launched in L mount for APS-C are appealing to me for my Leica T and SL (4K internal is crop) and I'd love to see Sigma do a 10bit internal RAW APS-C mode for the Fp.

I've got a sneaky feeling that Sigma might actually release an APS-C camera soon.

[mercer]

39 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

The 35mm Mamiya?

I meant the FP for photography. I've been looking for a hybrid forever. Obviously, my 5D3 can be used, but I'm looking for something smaller. I'm thinking of picking up an Olympus, though. 

 

43 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

It was all about the M mount for me when I got it as the native lenses were all huge and expensive with the exception of the 45mm f2.8 I got wirh it but I definitely think the landscape has changed L mount wise since then.

I agree it's gotten better, but it's still pretty bare. M-mount still seems to be the best. However, I did notice that a c-mount to L-Mount adapter is available that promises infinity focus... so if my math is correct, a 50mm c-mount should cover the sensor. That could be a fun experiment. 

 

46 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

The other three that they've launched in L mount for APS-C are appealing to me for my Leica T and SL (4K internal is crop) and I'd love to see Sigma do a 10bit internal RAW APS-C mode for the Fp.

I've got a sneaky feeling that Sigma might actually release an APS-C camera soon.

Agreed about both. Have you tested the crop mode on the FP?

Re: aps-c lenses...  It seems awfully strange to release those lenses without a body to attach them to. I know Leica has some aps-c cameras, but I wonder how many Leica camera owners would buy Sigma lenses?

[kye]

18 hours ago, JordanWright said:

Yes good point, the original idea was to get lighter lol will look into the Canon 20mm, I used to be more of a 28mm guy aswell, but seem to find myself always wanting wider recently.

 

Never browsed that store before thanks for the find!!!

I also love the look of lenses wider than 28mm.  I think that the fact that 24/28 is the standard wide end of a zoom and therefore kind of the default focal length for landscapes etc put me off it.  The fact that every smartphone video until two year ago was also that FOV sure didn't help.

I settled on 15/35/85 FF equivalent FOVs as how I shoot.  I love the 35 for environmental portraits (which is most of the work I do) and the 85 for close-ups or detail shots or far-away things and the 15 for landscapes and buildings and anything that's big and you want a WOW reaction from.

18 hours ago, JordanWright said:

I’m also looking into the Zeiss 18mm 3.5... hmmm decisions! 

When I bought my Laowa 7.5mm f2 (which is equivalent to a 15mm F4 on FF) I was tossing up between that one and the 10.5mm f0.95, but I wasn't sure that the 21mm equivalent FOV would be wide enough, and you can always crop in post but you can't zoom out in post so I didn't get it.

Having done a few trips with the 7.5mm (and the 8mm SLR Magic I had before that) I've realised that I don't think I ever need quite the full width of the 15/16 FOV they give, but I'm not sure how much narrower I can go before I'd start missing the width.  18mm might be a good point to look at.

I've done shots where I filled the 15mm FOV with the object, not leaving any dead space on the sides of the frame, and found that I had to get closer and the wide-angle-distortion was too much, so I'd have been better off standing further back and having a longer focal length.

This is an example where the lens is too wide, unless you're deliberately going for a ridiculous look which I was....

but for this shot it was fine:

[JordanWright]

9 hours ago, mercer said:

With full frame, 28mm to 35mm are basically street shooting lenses for me. I kinda prefer 45mm to 50mm, but I can go handheld with the former, so they're much more versatile.

RE: the Canon 20mm 2.8, I am probably going to buy the lens within the next couple months due to a shoot I'm doing this spring in a car. So if you do get it, please report back with your thoughts and some sample images. 

Yeah thinking about it the P6K is S35 so 18mm works out to be a similar fov as a 28mm on the 5d! 

4 hours ago, kye said:

I also love the look of lenses wider than 28mm.  I think that the fact that 24/28 is the standard wide end of a zoom and therefore kind of the default focal length for landscapes etc put me off it.  The fact that every smartphone video until two year ago was also that FOV sure didn't help.

I settled on 15/35/85 FF equivalent FOVs as how I shoot.  I love the 35 for environmental portraits (which is most of the work I do) and the 85 for close-ups or detail shots or far-away things and the 15 for landscapes and buildings and anything that's big and you want a WOW reaction from.

Yeah I think i've been watching too much Chivo (if thats possible) his films really changed my perspective to what looks 'normal' and 'natural' to me. 

4 hours ago, kye said:

Having done a few trips with the 7.5mm (and the 8mm SLR Magic I had before that) I've realised that I don't think I ever need quite the full width of the 15/16 FOV they give, but I'm not sure how much narrower I can go before I'd start missing the width.  18mm might be a good point to look at.

 

Im going to hold of and use the 18-35 until it gets to the point where I really get the itch for something smaller or wider for now, but I think you are right wider is going to be better for me! 

20 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

In the time that I have actually used it, which was predominantly the two weeks after I got it, I love it.

No question it could do with a viewfinder for me but I'll get the loupe at some point when I begin shooting again.

Thought this was a fantastic way to market a camera. I think it would be cool to use the loupe and the base grip for a super8 style rig. 

 

[BTM_Pix]

51 minutes ago, JordanWright said:

Thought this was a fantastic way to market a camera. I think it would be cool to use the loupe and the base grip for a super8 style rig. 

Yeah, the Sigma LVF-1 loupe I have for my DP0 doesn't fit due to the buttons underneath the screen on the Fp and having not been outside the door for months I've not been able to get or have any need for the LVF-11.  (this is code for "not been able to find one cheap enough secondhand" obviously).

As a lash, I've used an arm to mount the LVF-1 upside down on the Fp as it does fit that way up so with a £6 pistol grip and the Baveyes adapter, here is my Medium Format(ish) 4K RAW Super8 camera.

 

[BTM_Pix]

9 hours ago, mercer said:

I meant the FP for photography. I've been looking for a hybrid forever. Obviously, my 5D3 can be used, but I'm looking for something smaller. I'm thinking of picking up an Olympus, though. 

 

Its not the best full frame camera that I've got for photography but its certainly the best one that can also shoot RAW video and fit in my coat pocket that I've got, so in terms of a real hybrid then thats the benchmark I suppose.

Having no mechanical shutter is going to show up negatively from time to time and the 1/30th flash sync would kill it if I ever did any flash stuff too.

The lack of EVF is the bugbear, more so as my eyesight hasn't exactly got better in the past couple of years but against that is that the screen is good in bright light and the focus peaking works well too.

In terms of hybrids, Sony missed a huge trick with the A7C by not putting 10 bit video in it as that would've made it a big contender for being one that ticked enough boxes sufficiently well.

I think the ultimate hybrid is likely to be announced on Wednesday by Fujifilm with the GFX100S, albeit it at a "well it should be for that price" level.

For stills, at 100mp, you're never going to run out of road but it all depends on what they've cut out of the GFX100 on the video side. If they retain the same video specs then 10bit internal with ProRes RAW when you want it is a great combination.

In the same vein back at a more realistic price point, a used Panasonic S1 is pretty compelling though.

9 hours ago, mercer said:

I agree it's gotten better, but it's still pretty bare. M-mount still seems to be the best.

Fotodiox do an EF adapter with AF for L mount that includes a variable ND so that's another option now too.

9 hours ago, mercer said:

Agreed about both. Have you tested the crop mode on the FP?

Re: aps-c lenses...  It seems awfully strange to release those lenses without a body to attach them to. I know Leica has some aps-c cameras, but I wonder how many Leica camera owners would buy Sigma lenses?

Yes, it works fine.

All the Foveon cameras thus far have been APS-C so whilst Sigma have been trying to bring a FF version out it has been getting put back so I wouldn't rule out a new L mount APS-C Foveon based on either the SD Quattro or even in an Fp case, which would give them a home for these lenses.

With regard to Leica owners, the context is that for not much more than the price of the cheapest of Leica's own crop lenses, you can buy all three of the Sigma ones.

And they are significantly faster at f1.4 than most of Leica's offerings and as fast as Leica's fastest one which is almost double the price of buying the whole set of Sigmas.

So, this Leica owner, at least, is not going to ignore that kind of value !

 

[kye]

While watching the latest @Tito Ferradans anamorphic video, he references a great conversation about lenses and especially vintage vs modern glass.

The video is 1-hour and they present screen grabs from lens tests as well as talk about lots of interesting stuff, especially K35s.  @Andrew Reid - there was even some stuff mentioned in here about them that Media Division didn't include in their excellent video on the FD vs K35 lenses.

There's also a part 2 that is 2-hours that I am yet to watch:

In the first part above they make reference to a comparison that Shane Hurlbut made between the modern and optically excellent Leica Summilux-C and the vintage and less perfect Cooke S4, including some side-by-sides that really show a difference in how 3D the lenses are.  Spoiler, the Cooke is the more 3-dimensional of the two.

Going back to Jay Holben and Christopher Probst, apparently they're working on The Cine Lens Manual which is a book and has been in development for many years now and is up to 1000 pages.  Apparently it's taking so long because of the extensive testing of various lenses that they have done in researching the book, so it seems like it might be an encyclopaedia when it's finally done.  I'll be keeping and eye out for it, although with the work they've put in it'll probably cost more than what I'd be willing to invest!

The other thing that they mentioned in the test is the previous tests done by Sharegrid.

Their site is here: https://www.sharegrid.com/learn and it features a quad player feature where you can load up four lenses and play their studio test from the four of them simultaneously, which is fantastic for comparing lenses, or even the modern vs more vintage lenses.  It's just a pity there aren't more affordable lenses in there!

[noone]

2 hours ago, kye said:

 

The video is 1-hour and they present screen grabs from lens tests as well as talk about lots of interesting stuff, especially K35s.  @Andrew Reid - there was even some stuff mentioned in here about them that Media Division didn't include in their excellent video on the FD vs K35 lenses.

 

Just looked for prices on K35s on Ebay (Australia and USA) and there are very few.    A couple of zooms for over 30,000 Australian.    Some HOUSINGS for over $1500 ETC.

Even some of the old FD L lenses are still going for ridiculous prices (I posted earlier that Ebay collectively "thinks" my battered old FD 24 1.4 L is worth more than any other lens I have (including my 17 TSE that i could never afford to replace).

[kye]

32 minutes ago, noone said:

Just looked for prices on K35s on Ebay (Australia and USA) and there are very few.    A couple of zooms for over 30,000 Australian.    Some HOUSINGS for over $1500 ETC.

Even some of the old FD L lenses are still going for ridiculous prices (I posted earlier that Ebay collectively "thinks" my battered old FD 24 1.4 L is worth more than any other lens I have (including my 17 TSE that i could never afford to replace).

Yeah, I just watched the second part (the two hour one) and Chris said that he's trying to work a couple of years ahead of what he's shooting, so doesn't want to talk about what he's looking into because as soon as he talks about a particular vintage lens then the prices go through the roof, so he doesn't want to disclose that until he's already bought the lenses he needs to build his own set.

I feel like some of these vintage lenses are already too expensive to own, and that time is running out for other series.

[kye]

Following on from the Shane Hurlbut lens comparison, I'm interested in hearing about which lenses have desirable rendering properties, like a 3D quality, or a more flattering rendering of faces, etc.

Some stills from the test I linked above:

It seems that somehow the older optical properties of the Cooke give more depth to the image.  I've also encountered this in my own tests with the Takumars, which seemed very flat in comparison to other equivalent lenses at identical apertures.

Another strange example is this comparison of two 35mm lenses at the same distance and aperture:

The K35 looks like it has more wide-angle distortion, almost like it is a wider lens that's closer to the subject, but that isn't the case.

Of the more affordable lenses around, what are the ones that stand out? and why?