Lenses

[mercer]

The only problem I see with the Veydra lenses, on Micro 4/3s, are that they're still fairly big and heavy for Micro 4/3 lenses. And they're all a T2.2... which is about an f/2 in photographic terms... correct?

With the Voigtlanders at f/0.95... about a T1.2?... you're gaining a +1.5 stop for lowlight use... which is a bonus in Micro 4/3 world.

If I had to choose one or the other, I'd go with the Voigtlanders, but for @jonpais 's desire to have a good cine lens(set) for multiple cameras, the Veydra lenses make sense.

[Cinegain]

Maybe not as small as the Laowa 7.5mm f/2, but they're certainly manageable. Especially in length and weight, they're actually not that bad, no troubles going handheld with this. Having the same width throughout helps of course for easy swapping and keeping your set-up the same otherwise. With T2.2, indeed like f/1.8~f/2 or so would actually have, it's all about wide open performance guarantee. That's just a principle they didn't feel like sacrificing. Those Voigtländers/SLR Magics/Rokinons etc aren't particularly peaking in performance wide open, it would start to look up from f/2.8 anyways. But of course, it's nice to have f/0.95 in a pinch. But then again, cine lens... so traditionally these haven't been f/0.95 anyways even even bright ones are often shot at like f/5.6. We've come to love shallow depth of field, but you're hiding a lot of context with it. I always say: choose your shutterspeed, determine your desired depth of field (!) and corresponding aperture, set the ISO to balance things out... are we at minimum ISO and still too bright? Throw some shade its way! ND filters. Other scenario: things turn out too dark? Bump the ISO towards noise performance acceptable limits. Reached it and still not bright enough? Light your friggin' scene already! Still too dark? Well, you gonna have to either sacrifice depth of field or shutterspeed. Often people sacrifice depth of field, because they like a shallow depth of field anyways... but you know, maybe give it some thought rather than just throwing your lens wide open. In the end, there's different tools to get different jobs done, though.

I was once tempted by the idea of the Sony CineAlta cinema primes set (launched at $24,600 back in the day). Speaking of big and heavy and only covering S35.

On 6-1-2016 at 0:28 PM, Cinegain said:

Veydras are great. They don't have any funky stuff going with them which does make 'em consistent and have great resolving power. You can now user swap the mount to E-mount too. If you were to go up from that, without the need of fullframe, remember the Sony CineAlta set that has come down in price tremendously (as seen on: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/906631-REG/sony_scl_pk6_f_cinealta_4k_six_lens.html ). So you'd get a S35 covering set of 6 lenses, 20, 25, 35, 50, 85 and 135mm T2s for 2150 USD/each new. That's some proper glass! Still fairly pricey though, but I've seen 'em go up 2nd hand for 4850 GBP in the UK and 8500 EUR in France. And for that kind of money... that's pretty interesting for proper cinema primes.

Personally I'd like to mess around with some C/Y Zeiss next... see what all that's about for myself. I like vintage vibe, but usually I go for the extreme ones which tend to flare and create crazy bokeh, yet aren't really solid go-to lenses to just use for everything. Another interesting idea would be to shoot stuff exclusively on the BMPCC and get the Zenit Optars... http://shop.zenit-foto.ru/kinoob-ektivy .

Concerning Nikon Ai-s. The 28mm f/2.8 is a legendary one. Such a beaut.

[mercer]

True but I've always felt shallow depth hides a lot of the inherent flaws in consumer video, plus it conceals the limitations of no budget, run and gun, guerilla filmmaking.

The Voigts clean up pretty nicely by 1.4, so if the Veydra lenses are good wide open, that's still + a stop with the Voigtlanders.

Either way, the Veydra is the better choice for Jon's needs.

[Inazuma]

So today I received the Nikon mount Vivitar 28mm f2. I'm using it on my Metabones Speed Booster on the Panasonic G80.

Bought it for £80. So far I'm really surprised by the quality. I expected loads of softness and flaring but I'm getting neither. I'm almost disappointed! Nice character to the bokeh though.

Sorry just a boring plant shot from my back garden. Haven't had a chance to test it anywhere else yet. Tomorrow I'm going to a bbq so will be able to test it out better then.

 

Two unforeseen downsides to the lens are its long focus throw (about 270 degrees) and the front element rotates with the focus. It is otherwise very well made and really quite small!

[kidzrevil]

5 hours ago, Cinegain said:

I think Adam Wilt & Noam Kroll are the authorities when it comes to Veydra.

https://www.provideocoalition.com/first-look-veydra-mini-primes-for-micro-four-thirds/ , http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acquisition/micro-43/quick-note-veydra-mini-primes-tested-kickstarter-ending-soon.html , http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acquisition/micro-43/veydra-mini-primes-delivering-85mm-t2-2-available-for-pre-order.html & http://noamkroll.com/veydra-mft-cinema-lens-kit-review-rokinon-cine-lens-comparison/ . Pretty spot on stuff. Shane said he'd probably do a Part 4 (series: http://www.thehurlblog.com/?s=micro+lenses+part ) with the Veydras... but no joy.

I see a lot of people selling these off again. Would be interesting to find out why exactly. Maybe the image is just too well-behaved for some? To me it means: no surprises, predictability can be a good thing, especially if you're into more commercial shooting where you want your results to be consistent.

They are a little boring for my tastes. They have a very neutral and "safe" look that should be good for a wide variety of applications but idk..im not into the look especially vs. rokinon's xeen line. I think if you really need the features of a cine lens they're cool for the price but if things like focus breathing dont matter there are way better options out there

[jonpais]

There seems to be an almost conspiratorial silence regarding the latest release from Venus Optics. Yet just about every single reviewer of the Laowa 7.5mm f/2 lens has given it passing marks; several have had experience with both the Olympus and Panasonic wide angle zooms, and at least one, Richard Wong, has tested the PanLeica 8-18mm f/2.8-4 lens as well. Nonetheless, most of the reviews i've seen have been by stills photographers, not filmmakers, in spite of the fact that this lens seems ideal for drone and gimbal work. The lens is compact, it's got all metal construction, an aperture ring, it's sharp from f/2 and it only runs around $400.00 USD in Hong Kong. It does suffer from poor performance against strong light and heavy vignetting however. I've been on the lookout for years for a nice ultra-wide prime, and I think this is the one to get. AFAIK, if you set the focus ring to three feet at f/4, everything from 1-1/2 feet to infinity should be reasonably sharp. The filter thread is 46mm (the lack of a filter thread was a huge no-go for me as far as the older Olympus and Panasonic wide angle zooms went). If you're looking for an ultra-wide that won't break the bank, this is probably the one to go for. I'll be picking the lens up on September 9th and hopefully posting a video within the week. 

[jonpais]

23 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

They are a little boring for my tastes. They have a very neutral and "safe" look that should be good for a wide variety of applications but idk..im not into the look especially vs. rokinon's xeen line. I think if you really need the features of a cine lens they're cool for the price but if things like focus breathing dont matter there are way better options out there

I don't find the images from the video I posted drab at all - in fact, I was astonished at how much '3D pop' there actually was, and this is coming from someone who grudgingly admits that Leica reigns supreme when it comes to lens design, at least when it comes to my modest experience with micro four thirds lenses. One person whose opinion I greatly respect even went so far as to say the images and color of the video I shared were more impressive than many of the Academy Award winners shot on the Alexa XT. A feat all the more impressive, as all the clips were shot with Cinelike D, ungraded, under mixed lighting conditions, on the GH4 - which so many have said gives unusable results as far as skin tones go. No master colorist charging $100/hour! Nicelady Productions also did a comparison with one of the Zeiss Milvus lenses, which were designed with filmmakers in mind, and which are regarded by many as among the best stills lenses available for the money, and the Veydra didn't disappoint. The Xeen lens didn't fare very well in the test, BTW. And I don't believe either Adam Wilt or Noam Kroll would prefer the Xeens to the Veydras.

Edit: Adam Wilt, in his review of the pre-production models over at pro video coalition, actually states that the Veydras handle and perform much like smaller, slower versions of the Arri Ultra Primes.

[jonpais]

Drone footage, Laowa 7.5mm f/2, 'Shanghai'

 

[jonpais]

The Olympus 17mm f/1.2 may ship in January. (43Rumors)

[PannySVHS]

On 16.8.2017 at 9:44 PM, jonpais said:

Adam Wilt's tests and comments were well worth reading, thanks! Taken in combination with what I've seen, I'm pretty confident they're a solid set of true cine lenses. If all lenses performed as well as these do, lens reviewers would probably be out of a job!

 

Hey Jon, I read Noams article a few days ago due to cinegains recommendation. These Veydras look tasty indeed. The affordable Rokinon models look boring

from the outside:) And they have a rather cheap tactile feel, though focussing is smooth, as is their aperture wheel.

That SLRmagic 12mm version I is indeed a soft sucker, as you stated. I didnt wanna believe you, but it is at F4 when it is starting to considerably sharpen

up and becoming nice. Would shoot it at 2.8 for macro and distorted POV stuff. Still a fun lens, making me want a 12mm native prime with nice T 2.0 or

2.2 or 2.5 performance or a 17 or 18mm 2.8 or 3.5 speedboosted with nice performance wide open. Still not buying that Leica 12mm.

Oh heck yes, that Laowa 7.5mm is looking tasty!

On 16.8.2017 at 8:09 PM, mercer said:

Grab a Veydra in your favorite focal length and write a 1-3 minute short, or adapt a public domain short story, with 1 or 2 actors.

I would use your street shooting skills as part of the production. 

If you want to go lightweight and handheld, I saw a cheap, rail-free, follow focus that could help with the Veydra's focus throw to keep a simple set up.

And a Black Pro Mist 1/4! You need some Black Pro Mist just like I need myself some cowbell!:)

By the way, watched GX85 HD footage, shot with my FD50mm F1.4 at 5.6 at 8, on a large screen with a nice 8000 EU projector, the aliasing

with that high resolving Canon lens in hair and skin pores was fugly, digital brutality, so to say. So for the pure beauty of the image, HD for

big screen is to be avoided on the GX85. It was with -5 for noise and sharpness.

[jonpais]

12 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

 

Hey Jon, I read Noams article a few days ago due to cinegains recommendation. These Veydras look tasty indeed. The affordable Rokinon models look boring

from the outside:) And they have a rather cheap tactile feel, though focussing is smooth, as is their aperture wheel.

That SLRmagic 12mm version I is indeed a soft sucker, as you stated. I didnt wanna believe you, but it is at F4 when it is starting to considerably sharpen

up and becoming nice. Would shoot it at 2.8 for macro and distorted POV stuff. Still a fun lens, making me want a 12mm native prime with nice T 2.0 or

2.2 or 2.5 performance or a 17 or 18mm 2.8 or 3.5 speedboosted with nice performance wide open. Still not buying that Leica 12mm.

Oh heck yes, that Laowa 7.5mm is looking tasty!

And a Black Pro Mist 1/4! You need some Black Pro Mist just like I need myself some cowbell!:)

By the way, watched GX85 HD footage, shot with my FD50mm F1.4 at 5.6 at 8, on a large screen with a nice 8000 EU projector, the aliasing

with that high resolving Canon lens in hair and skin pores was fugly, digital brutality, so to say. So for the pure beauty of the image, HD for

big screen is to be avoided on the GX85. It was with -5 for noise and sharpness.

I almost bit the bullet on a set of three Veydras from a shop in Hong Kong, but even though the lenses are manufactured in China, and many mainlanders shop in Hong Kong because prices are lower, the retailer I spoke with was asking $700-$1,000 more than B&H, so now I'm looking at an authorized dealer in Malaysia. It's difficult to justify spending nearly $4,000 for something that is just a hobby, nothing more - especially as I haven't even shot a single narrative in my life.

Compared to some other cine modded lenses, the Veydras have consistent filter thread and outer diameter sizes, making changing lenses when working with a follow focus and matte box simpler. And a matte box will probably be necessary, as the Veydras' work against bright light is not exemplary. Nice Lady Productions did a comparison, shooting with and without a matte box with cine lenses, and color saturation and contrast were strikingly better with. The Veydras also have user interchangeable mounts, so from the 19mm T2.2 and up, they can be used with cameras like the JVC LS300, the Fuji X-T2 and the Sony E mount cameras, as well as with the upcoming Panasonic EVA2. ? And at $1,000, they cost 1/4 the price of many other cine lenses. I will still be flying to Hong Kong to pick up the Laowa, which is $100 cheaper than buying from B&H. 

The Samyang/Rokinon 12mm f/2 has many adherents if you're looking for an inexpensive wide angle.

I was really only able to appreciate the Leica 12mm for the very first time when I watched some clips on my new 5K iMac a couple days ago. And not only the extra resolution, but the colors are far truer on the new machine, especially skin tones. These eGPUs which can dramatically improve the performance of the recent MacBooks running High Sierra are simply incredible, but I still believe the extra screen real estate of a 27" desktop should be considered the absolute minimum unless you've got no choice but to edit out in the field. However, I still often edit on my Macbook and do color correction at home on the iMac simply because I can't stand being cooped up at home. 

[Matt Kieley]

Some RMC Tokina 17mm magic hour.

[jonpais]

LensTip, after publishing their first sample images a couple of months ago, finally shares the results of their test of the Leica 8-18mm f/2.8-4, findings that won't surprise anyone who already owns the lens one iota.

[cantsin]

I find it rather questionable that Panasonic sells lenses with the Leica brand that rely, as LensTip writes, on heavy software geometry correction. From a high-end brand, you'd normally expect that their lenses are optically corrected.

[Cinegain]

I don't really like the new Leica zooms. They're f/2.8-4 which is a bummer and the rendering, like I don't see that signature Leica look (of their primes) back at all. Concerning the 12-60mm, I hardly see a reason to pick the Leica over the Lumix to be honest. It is nice that a wide angle has a filter thread, the beast that's the Olympus 7-14mm f/2.8 PRO just hasn't. But then again, you could get the Laowa 7.5mm f/2 and solve that. :P

[jonpais]

50 minutes ago, cantsin said:

I find it rather questionable that Panasonic sells lenses with the Leica brand that rely, as LensTip writes, on heavy software geometry correction. From a high-end brand, you'd normally expect that their lenses are optically corrected.

Yes, there was some heavy distortion in the RAW files for sure.

Focal lengths, aperture and APD

Since I'll be heading to Hong Kong to pick up the Laowa 7,5mm f/2 for MFT (sorry, Panasonic. or maybe, sorry me!), I was interested in another lens made by Venus Optics, the Laowa 105mm f/2 (T3.2) APD. APD means apodization, which is supposed to make the out of focus areas, or bokeh, smoother, softer, more pleasing. Sony, Fuji and probably some other manufacturers have also come out with APD lenses, some of which cost a small fortune. According to at least one reviewer of the Fuji 56mm f/1.2 APD lens, the apodization is really most noticeable wide open, so if you're trying to decide between the 'normal' Fuji 56mm and the APD version, that'd be something to consider. The Laowa has been described as pin sharp from wide open, it's got all metal construction, and it's completely manual. Jason Lanier did a test of the lens, and while the bokeh is undeniably beautiful, he points out that it takes at least two or three twists of the focus ring to go from nearest to farthest focus, and the ring is a bit stiff, so it's probably less than ideal for filmmaking. As far as bokeh-challenged m4/3 goes, many viewers of my YT channel have expressed interest in the Leica 42.5mm f/1.2, but even though you've got to step back somewhat to use it, I'd still recommend the Olympus 75mm f/1.8 any day of the week for shooting portraiture, as it's much easier to get bokeh-licious shots with a longer focal length than with a faster, shorter lens. And since, with an adapter, the Laowa 105mm would come out to around the same focal length as the Olympus 75mm, I guess I'll hold onto my money.

[Cinegain]

Hum, interesting. I knew about new techniques to cut the glass differently as to avoid the onion ring effect, but this trans focus stuff is pretty new to me. I kinda like hard edge (or even soap bubble) bokeh balls though. But there's something to say for some optics rendering the out of focus areas a little too nervous and distracting. Nice diffuse smooth backgrounds really enhance the shallow depth of field look.

[jonpais]

Not wanting to blow my beer budget on a set of Veydras from Hong Kong, I got in touch with an authorized seller in Malaysia. Here's the email exchange:

6:22AM: 

Hi,
Do you sell Veydra mini primes m43? I am looking for a set: the 12, 25 and 50.
Thank you!
Jon

10:19AM:

hi  where  r u from.

stephen 

10:31AM:

I live in Vietnam

1:30PM:

Hi Stephen,

Do you sell Veydra?

2:19PM:

yes i do  . i send a qoute   in usd ?

stephen

2:31PM:

Sure, I need a set of three: the 12, 25 and 50mm mft mount

5:39PM:

Hi Stephen,

Can you send me a quote, please?

6:17PM:

Ok.imsend now

10:11PM:

?

[noone]

On ‎17‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 10:38 AM, Inazuma said:

So today I received the Nikon mount Vivitar 28mm f2. I'm using it on my Metabones Speed Booster on the Panasonic G80.

Bought it for £80. So far I'm really surprised by the quality. I expected loads of softness and flaring but I'm getting neither. I'm almost disappointed! Nice character to the bokeh though.

Sorry just a boring plant shot from my back garden. Haven't had a chance to test it anywhere else yet. Tomorrow I'm going to a bbq so will be able to test it out better then.

 

Two unforeseen downsides to the lens are its long focus throw (about 270 degrees) and the front element rotates with the focus. It is otherwise very well made and really quite small!

I had two of those (in Pentax K mount).        I thought they were nice and reasonably sharp lenses but the main issues for me were.

A) Quite a lot of distortion (more than I would expect for a 28mm lens).      It wasn't the best lens for people.

B) A lot of them suffer from stuck blades (one of mine did).

[Phil A]

Is anyone using an older macro lens? I used to be really deep into macro photography a few years ago and actually just recently got the idea that I would like to shoot some insect documentaries, seeing how I'm a sucker for watching animal docus.

I'm now considering what to get. I used a Tamron SP AF 90mm F/2.8 Di in the past and the image quality is great for such a cheap, plasticy lens while going down to 1:1. But this time I'm considering to get something else to adapt to a Panasonic GH5 where I could get other lenses to build a regular set (probably speed boosted 28 and 50mm lenses with f/2 aperture).

I'm currently looking into:
Canon FD 100mm f/4 Macro
Leica Macro Elmarit-R 100mm f/4
Minolta MD 100mm f/4 Macro
Nikon 105mm f/2.8 Micro-NIKKOR AI-s
SMC Pentax-M 100mm f/4

 

Curious if there's any experiences in that niche?