Lenses

[Phil A]

14 hours ago, mercer said:

Really nice looking. I watched it on my phone so I can’t tell... was it shot in 4K? It actually reminds me a little of BMMCC footage I took a while back with Jon Voigtlander 25mm. 

Shot in 4k in V-Log L, just fixed it roughly with FilmConvert and some tweaking... but I shot in Aperture priority because I forgot my NDs and that was just the export for IG in super low bitrate (Instagram always turns it into mush anyway).

I think the Voigtländer lenses are plenty sharp enough, even though everyone and his dog says they're soft when wide open.

[Mattias Burling]

I have had the Sigma 18-35/1.8 for a while.
As a shooter who prefer prime lenses its simply amazing. Very happy.

So... naturally I started thinking if I maybe made a mistake buying the Tamron 70-200/2.8 G2 over the Sigma 50-100/1.8.
The Tamrom is awesome, highly recommend it. Truly great. Still...

I knew I could get every single penny back on the Tamron since I found it with a major discount. And the local store had a used Sigma.
So I went to check it out. And I don't know if it was faith or if the seller knew that dogs are a big part of my photography (both at home and professionally). But all of a sudden this little guy was sitting in the store in front of me.

Nedless to say, after reviewing the files I went back and bought it.
So now I have 18mm all the way to 100mm f1.8 with only two lenses.

[jonpais]

Sigma 16mm f/1.4 E mount, just $449.

[jonpais]

Nice to see the Voigtlander 17.5mm getting so much praise. But @Phil A's video looks like 240p - nothing is sharp, not even remotely. But it doesn't look intentional. No definition or detail to be found anywhere. No character. No rendition to speak of. Yet Phil says it's a sharp lens. I don't know anyone who'd disagree with that, as the Noktons, with the exception of the 10.5mm, shattered resolution records for a while... So maybe it's a mystery wrapped inside an egg roll wrapped inside today's London Times. Or maybe he's just playing with our minds. This isn't IG, so why not share the high bit rate footage with us? Baffling. He does say it's a 'total sloppy hack job', so I guess we should just take him at his word. Unfortunately, I don't share Phil A's wish that the Nokton was an AF lens. Or, as he ruefully remarks, 'I wish there was a lens like that with AF'. Because if there were, and rest assured, one or two are coming next year, it wouldn't be a Voigtlander. The Nokton is something special to be savored, like a fine wine. It's not instant food. Certainly not something I'd be using with the app on my 4" iPhone screen. That would remove me too much from the whole experience. This lens is from another time, another place. Old world craftsmanship, that I'd go so far to say we don't even deserve. Since it's impossible to focus or adjust aperture with the remote app, I see little point in using it with what must be among the finest lenses for the micro four thirds system, or any system, for that matter. Far nicer than something like a Zeiss Milvus anyhow, and without question unique in a way the Leicas are not. Turning the unbelievably buttery smooth focus ring or aperture ring is what the whole experience of owning a Cosina lens is all about. Focus by wire would destroy all that. Manual focus is in fact the whole reason for the Nokton's existence. It is an act of rebellion. Against the fast food crowd. The push a button, here's your picture mentality. Actually, I'm puzzled why anyone would use the remote app with this lens, an external monitor for sure... But I'm sure someone can explain that to me...

[Phil A]

Thank you @jonpais . You've helped me remember why I normally don't share videos or pictures or anything on internet forums anymore. I'll take the criticism to heart and consider it.

[Mattias Burling]

No the video is gone. I got super curious when two people say it looks great and one throws a total tantrum.
Must have been a special video.

[kidzrevil]

@Phil A no big deal man ! Do you think you could shoot it over again without the use of the app ? I do recall manual focusing that lens being smooth and it being sharp at all focus distances. Take another shot at it when time permits im curious to see what you come up with ! I really miss that lens !

[Cinegain]

I think Jon looks for different things in a lens than some of us, which is perfectly fine of course. Seems he likes a perfect lens, he has a track record of owning and shooting with some of the best lenses for the system, incl. the Panasonic 12mm f/1.4, 42.5mm f/1.2, Olympus 75mm f/1.8, 25mm f/1.2, Sigma DC DN 30mm f/1.4, Veydra Mini Primes etc, where it's all about resolving power and sharpness, where they are absolutely smashing it, you can't really argue that.

It just doesn't seem he 'gets' people that put character first however (which is funny itself because he didn't feel Phil A's footage had any, but okay)... like shooting a 17.5mm f/0.95 wide open or using anything vintage. Takes offence himself when people find a lens to render 'boring', meaning not that he himself has shot something boring, but that the lens has a reliable and clinical look of perfection to it (maybe that is the sort of 'character' he wishes to see, to me that's prefering a vodka over a whiskey, where as well, nothing is wrong to put one over the other, personal preference and all). To that person. Yet you know, it's okay if people aren't on the same page, an opinion is something subjective, there's no one true way... and one should really be accepting of that and letting others do their thing. To me it matters more that someone is having fun shooting and makes great content in terms of mood, composition, 'story telling' however limited applicability perhaps. If you have blinders on and can only tell if someone's work is good by pixelpeeping, then you might be missing the point (but atleast you'd have every pixel). So I personally was able to appreciate said video and post, because it isn't always the main goal to capture something pixel perfect, but to capture something that elicits something beyond that. And Jon's said it before himself... he might've shot and uploaded a video with the white balance, framerate or audiosync off... and never finds anyone in the comments complaining and pointing it out. That's all because they look through the pixel peeping and rather just focus on the essence. If your content is good, it's probably good because of the bigger picture, not just the individual pixel. And even if you don't see it that back with someone else's work the least you could do is give them some constructive feedback... the lowest thing you could do is dismiss what they've done altogether and regard it as someone clowning around (discouraging them to ever post something again). A bit of mutual respect goes a long way.

[mercer]

Here’s my horrible Voigtlander 25mm 0.95 video shot wide open. This was shot with a BMMCC, a truly unremarkable camera and lens combo, unfortunately... This really sucks so be forewarned...

 

[PannySVHS]

10 hours ago, Phil A said:

Thank you @jonpais . You've helped me remember why I normally don't share videos or pictures or anything on internet forums anymore. I'll take the criticism to heart and consider it.

Hey Phil, Jons seems to have been read wrongly. He does not evaluate the quality of your shooting, which is fine looking indeed. He recognizes a lack of resolution

in the material. Afterall it´s the longest and maybe most read thread in the web, which is all about lenses. So the quality of your shooting skills reamains untouched by Jons enthusiastic praise for the Noktons:) Hope this can put a smile back onto our faces.

@mercer, man you are always pulling off awesome compositions and framing. The shot at 0.40 is especially beautiful. Cannot wait to see you shortfilm!

[cantsin]

Since we're discussing Voigtlanders, here's a video shot with the 25mm/0.95 and the 2.5K Blackmagic Cinema Camera (some wideangle shots taken with the Samyang 12mm/2.0):

https://vimeo.com/213446141

[anonim]

One of the the most beautiful rendition of Voigt's that I found - in spite of being upload just in 720p. Actually, what me personally impressed with Nokton Voigt's, is the fact that any of other lenses (IMO) don't render so wonderful even at 720p. As they don't need bite-me sharpness to made an impression. Proof for their high-end microcontrast, roll-of and intrinsic color-science in general?

 

[kidzrevil]

I went digging through my vimeo looking for some old voigtlander footage. I found this video shot with the 17.5mm w/ tiffen black pro mist on a panasonic gh3 back when I was in the Navy. Sometimes I consider ditching the speedbooster route and grabbing all the fast voigt’s again. Even the E mount voigtlanders look promising

 

@anonim voigtlander has a signature rendering hands down. The microcontrast is phenomenal and the lens doesn’t have that clinical accutance/edge sharpening that makes the deep depth of field of M43 look so videoish. I think the voigtlanders give M43 cameras a high end super 16mm look and thats their secret

[anonim]

@kidzrevil

Yes. Maybe using of soften filters on Voigts made some sort of redundancy?

[kidzrevil]

@anonim not at all. The softening of the transition between bright and dark areas of the image brought on by diffusion filters is an absolute neccessity for me. Working with cameras like the Panasonic GH3 that produce a max 10 stops of DR in video the diffusion filtration tend to help smoothen out the heavy contrast giving you a more filmic highlight rolloff with negligible softening of fine detail.

[anonim]

Pure and sample, ungraded exhibition of all 4 Voigts. Just for prediction what someone could do if wish - or wish not - in further exploration.

 

@kidzrevil

Many thanks for accurate explanation of Black mist filter. Because of you I've already put it on dreaming list!

So, if I understand, one of the effect might be some sort of fine, although fake (but what isn't fakery in codecs game) gaining impression of better, i. e. smoother dynamic range?

[Terry Lee]

I'm in a dilemma and need opinions here........ I'm thinking of replacing my Sigma 18-35mm + speed booster XL with Voigtlander 17.5mm & 25mm.....

I find the Sigma 18-35mm very "digital", cold and lifeless........... While my nikkor 50mm 1.2 produces pleasing and organic images to me......

BTW, I first found @jonpais video on youtube, which lead me to this forum. And also got introduced to leeming lut through his youtube video. 

[jonpais]

@Terry Lee Welcome aboard, Terry. Only a few years ago, I thought speed boosted lenses were the way to go for micro four thirds bodies. This was before Leica, Olympus, Sigma, Laowa and other manufacturers started producing a number of fast, optically excellent m4/3 primes. Of course, now I'm in my honeymoon phase with cine lenses... First of all, those APS-C and full frame lenses are bulky and heavy. I'm not going to fib, I love the image out of the Sigma 18-35, and it's possible to find some genuine bargains now. Still, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Noktons. I would just ask (1) which camera do you own; (2) what do you shoot; and (3) do you have an external monitor? Because I find that even with focus peaking enabled, I can't for the life of me get critical focus with the GH5.

[anonim]

Well, for opinions there are some other conneiseurs here who can be more elaborative. From my side - I already did the same - changed 18-35 A for Voigtlander 17.5 and speedboosted Zeiss/Leica.

[jonpais]

@anonim Milvus?