Lenses

[jonpais]

(1) The Olympus Pro lenses will be seriously unbalanced on a BMD Micro.

(2) The Olympus 17mm f/1.8 falls significantly behind even a pancake like the Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 in many respects, and is considerably more expensive.

(3) When it comes to actual filmmaking, nailing focus either with fbw or a fully manual lens isn't the issue. Repeatability and being able to pull focus are. And for serious filmmaking (which I've never done :=), a cinema lens is preferable to any fly by wire, with or without hard stops. With manual clutch, the focus throw on my Olympus 25mm f/1.2 'Pro' is ludicrously short. And many photography lenses suffer from breathing, which can ruin a shot.

(4) For little more than the price of one Olympus 'Pro' 45mm f/1.2, you can get two all-metal, geared, matte box friendly, budget priced Veydra Mini Primes that are compatible with X-mount, C-mount, E-mount and MFT-mount, so you aren't limited if you happen to own a Sony or Fuji APS-C camera, or decide to buy one in the future.

 

 

[mercer]

All fair points, but the only native m4/3 lenses I’ve ever owned were the Sigma 19 and 30mm f/2.8 lenses and although they were both sharp, I couldn’t stand the fly by wire.

The Olympus 17mm 1.8 is in a different league compared to those two. And compared to Canon L glass they all seemed like toys.

But the point of the 17mm 1.8 and the Pocket is to make the Pocket pocketable. The kind of stuff I am working on requires complete and total anonymity. I need to look like a tourist. So the smaller the footprint, the better. The Veydras would stick out like a sore thumb. Some small native micro 4/3 or some vintage c-mounts would keep the set up small. 

But everytime I think about a second camera, I end up looking at some footage from my 5D3 and I forget all about it. I could make an entire film with just my 24-70mm and be happy.

In the end, when I do decide on a second camera, it will probably be some type of point and shoot or bridge cam like the FZ2500 or the RX10ii... if I have to buy lenses, I’d rather spend the money on FF lenses for my 5D3. 

I’d really love another XC10 but I’m not sure I can find one for the right price.

[jonpais]

@mercer  I've shot with my huge rig in public spaces and haven't encountered a problem with anonymity - even with the GH5, cage, BMD Video Assist and Veydra Mini Primes. 

If budget is a consideration and a small footprint is what you're after, get the Panasonic 20mm f/1.7. But I'm missing something here: if you need manual focus, why buy an AF lens at all? Why not adapt one of your own?

I guess what I'd be interested to know is whether you plan to use the manual clutch just to acquire focus, or will you be doing focus pulls? Because the focus clutch on the Olympus is also fly by wire. And its short focus throw renders it all but useless.

 

[cantsin]

The Panasonic 20mm/1.7's focal length too narrow on the BM Pocket to be usable as an allrounder lens for handheld shooting. A focal length of 12-17mm (equivalent to 35-50mm full frame on the Pocket) is advisable. I'd recommend the Samyang 12mm/f2 as such an allrounder lens. It's small, light, affordable, has manual focus & manual diaphragm and good optical quality.

[jonpais]

Sounds good, I've never shot with the Pocket, thanks Cantsin. The Samyang has gotten lots of love around here, and I've noticed many reviewers have nothing but praise for it.

[Mattias Burling]

What's useless to some isn't necessarily to others.
Ive used the 17mm a lot and prefer it to a regular fly by wire lens any day.
In no way does it act like a normal fly by wire lens when pulling focus. That is simply not true. The scale and hard stops work. Simple as that.

If it was true it would mean that the speed of the turn made a difference, it doesn't. 
And that the numbers didn't ad up, but they do.

If the throw is to short, that's a different story and like most things individual.
Personally I prefer a short throw to a long any day of the week because it lets me make nice and smooth focus pulls compared to something like the Yeydra which would be shaky and wobbly in my hands.
We simply have different ways of shooting and should choose the tool that suites us best.

I've used the Panasonic 20mm f1.7 on the BMPCC more than most and I prefer the Oly 17mm with a huge margin.
I highly recommend both but the 17mm is a better fit imo.

PS. focus breathing is probably at the bottom three of things I don't care about. Never met a normal viewer that would ever notice.

 

[Inazuma]

@jonpais 

Quote

(2) The Olympus 17mm f/1.8 falls significantly behind even a pancake like the Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 in many respects, and is considerably more expensive.

This is simply untrue. The IQ from both lenses is similar. I've read reviews saying the 20mm is technically better, but the difference is very hard to spot on the 16mp m43 sensor. The 20mm has an awful MF ring which is stiff and acts like a typical fly-by-wire lens. The 17mm has a great, responsive clutch focus ring. I'd also recommend this lens over the 20mm any day.

[jonpais]

Preferring short focus throw is an opinion not shared by most filmmakers: a longer focus throw enables smoother focus pulls and greater precision. I really appreciate the fine-grained control I have when shooting with the Veydras. Anyhow, if you’re not pulling focus, or if you need to work rapidly, I can see how a long throw could be cumbersome. In video, breathing can be distracting, but I can go along with Mattias that most viewers wouldn’t notice unless you pointed it out to them. As for the Olympus 17, according to lenstip, the Zuiko suffers from huge astigmatism, significant vignetting, very high distortion and weaker image quality in the frame center than Panasonic’s pancake. It is also costlier. I won’t argue that clutch focus isn’t better than nothing at all, but I would have to go along with @cantsin‘s recommendation if Glenn plans on doing much manual focusing. 

[mercer]

A short focus throw doesn’t bother me, I actually prefer it for the same reasons @Mattias Burling mentioned. I even sold all of my non-ai and ai glass and replaced them with ai-s versions for the shorter focus throw. I do like focus pulls but if I need a little longer of a throw, a simple focus lever or zip tie will add a little.

@cantsin I had the 12mm Cine Rokinon last year and really liked the lens and with the crop factor of the Pocket, it does give a nice 35mm FOV but if I do end up wanting a second lens, the only other small option, in that line up, is the 21mm and I would probably want something a little longer. 

So I was thinking the 17mm Olympus might be a good choice with its manual clutch, standard FOV, and electrical contacts... plus the possibility to get the 12-50mm zoom if I really need some more range. So basically the 17mm would live on the Pocket and the zoom would stay in my bag, just in case.

And after looking at a ton of BMPCC videos, Olympus lenses and the Pocket seem to be a nice combo. But to be fair, I have also seen some nice work done with the Panny 14mm and the 20mm. But if I were to go the Panny route, I would choose the 14mm due to the pocket’s crop factor, so then the 20mm doesn’t make sense because it won’t be long enough for the two lens set up I’d inevitably want.

Also I already have a set of the zebra f/1.9 Cosmicar c-mount lenses, so I have a 12.5, 25, 50 and 75mm if I want to go full on manual. I also have the Fujinon 12.5mm and 25mm c-mounts.

But again I am just in the consideration phase right now. I’ve owned both the Pocket and the Micro in the past and ended up selling them because I felt I wasn’t a good enough colorist to pull the mojo out of the images. But now I’m thinking that maybe the Pocket is the best way to go for my mess around camera to get better at it. Plus since I’m an FCPX user, the ability to shoot ProRes and edit natively with the files sounds pretty appealing.

So basically I would use the 5D3 for most of my work and then for fun, short mood pieces, I would pull out the Pocket. 

Haha, but I’ll probably change my mind in a few hours and want an RX10ii or FZ2500 for ease of use and to not have to mess around with lenses.

[Mattias Burling]

I like focus pulls and do it all the time. But I prefer it and get better results with a short throw. There are plenty of people that agree. Which was my point in the last post. One can't argue based one once opinions as if they applied to everyone.

[jonpais]

@Mattias Burling I'm not trying to impose my personal likes and dislikes on anyone - I'm stating a fact. Whether I know plenty of people who do this or do that is beside the point. I know people who violate the 180 degree rule. I have friends who swear by underexposure. We all know people who don't like 4K. The fact is, the majority of films we watch, be it at the theater or on Netflix, at a film festival or wherever, are shot on cinema glass for a reason. And one of those reasons is that cinema lenses have a long focus throw. I already conceded that if you're pressed for time, a short focus throw might be desirable. And if Glenn's project requires him to carry a Pocket camera and Olympus 17mm concealed under his jacket, it may simply be out of the question. 

[PannySVHS]

@mercer, pocket some batteries with the pocket, bring your backpack  with the RX10:) no swiss army knife out there, at least not pocket size.

Btw, the 20mm is not just a pancake but some of the sharpest m43 lenses around, close to the 25mm 1.4. TStop is awesome, between 1.6 and 1.7. Would love to have that lens in a housing of a mechanical lens. Like inazuma said, focussing is no fun at all.

[jonpais]

@PannySVHS I’d go so far as to say that if all Olympus and Panny glass was available in manual, I’d choose it over AF. 

[PannySVHS]

2 hours ago, mercer said:

Also I already have a set of the zebra f/1.9 Cosmicar c-mount lenses, so I have a 12.5, 25, 50 and 75mm if I want to go full on manual. I also have the Fujinon 12.5mm and 25mm c-mounts.

Now these beauties would be a nice sight. Please don´t ever sell them:) What Cmount adapter do you recommend for the Fujinon 12.5mm? I bought one this summer laying around, because of lack of adapter.

7 hours ago, cantsin said:

The Panasonic 20mm/1.7's focal length too narrow on the BM Pocket to be usable as an allrounder lens for handheld shooting. A focal length of 12-17mm (equivalent to 35-50mm full frame on the Pocket) is advisable. I'd recommend the Samyang 12mm/f2 as such an allrounder lens. It's small, light, affordable, has manual focus & manual diaphragm and good optical quality.

Would be like a 28 on m43, kinda an interesting fov:) But sure, for the wide end it would have to be something else, like mercers Fujinon 12.5.

[mercer]

10 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Now these beauties would be a nice sight. Please don´t ever sell them:) What Cmount adapter do you recommend for the Fujinon 12.5mm? I bought one this summer laying around, because of lack of adapter.

Would be like a 28 on m43, kinda an interesting fov:) But sure, for the wide end it would have to be something else, like mercers Fujinon 12.5.

If I remember correctly, only the Rainbow Imaging C-M4/3 works with that lens without modification. 

[homestar_kevin]

I actually have the same issue with the adapter for that fujinon 12.5, is this the rainbow imaging adapter you're talking about? 

http://www.rainbowimaging.biz/shop/product.php?id_product=225

It looks like the deep recess would help...

[mercer]

23 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

@mercer, pocket some batteries with the pocket, bring your backpack  with the RX10:) no swiss army knife out there, at least not pocket size.

Btw, the 20mm is not just a pancake but some of the sharpest m43 lenses around, close to the 25mm 1.4. TStop is awesome, between 1.6 and 1.7. Would love to have that lens in a housing of a mechanical lens. Like inazuma said, focussing is no fun at all.

I hear ya, I have a project coming up that requires a small footprint and a quick turnaround. I had the RX10ii last year and actually really liked the camera. I fell into the mire of over adjusting every sLog2 setting in the camera and then needed the extra cash for my 5D3, so I sold it. But for this project it could be perfect. It’s in B&W, so I think sLog2 with B&W color could be a great combo, add the S16 aesthetic and it may be a winner. The project is still up in the air though, so I’m just musing possibilities right now. And I’m still trying to make my 5D3 work for it by testing Quick post/color workflows.

3 minutes ago, homestar_kevin said:

I actually have the same issue with the adapter for that fujinon 12.5, is this the rainbow imaging adapter you're talking about? 

http://www.rainbowimaging.biz/shop/product.php?id_product=225

It looks like the deep recess would help...

I bought it from the rainbow imaging US eBay store, but it is the Fotasy Brand... see below. 

[jonpais]

Today I started a new project - focus pulling with the Veydras. :=) Frame grab, Lumix GH5, Veydra Mini Prime 16mm T2.2, 400 Mbps, ALL-Intra, HLG, NR -5, Sharpening -5, T2.2.

[jonpais]

I don’t often take an interest in E mount lenses, since I’ve never owned a Sony - but if you do, and appreciate mechanical and optical perfection, then the Voigtlander MACRO APO-LANTHAR 65mm f/2 Aspherical Lens might tantalize you. 

[Jonesy Jones]

On 12/5/2017 at 4:55 AM, jonpais said:

Today I started a new project - focus pulling with the Veydras. :=) Frame grab, Lumix GH5, Veydra Mini Prime 16mm T2.2, 400 Mbps, ALL-Intra, HLG, NR -5, Sharpening -5, T2.2.

Great image. I think you're right with this HLG and Leeming lut combo. I have yet to see another setup that gets skin as correct. Will probably be buying soon.

Quick question, are your 16mm images shot with or without ETC enabled?