Lenses

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

At a certain point, I can only invest so much into this camera, my 5D3 is still my camera of choice for any major project I work on. I have some c-mounts that I can use and I have a growing collection of Nikkor lenses, so maybe a metabones speedbooster makes more sense... I saw one sell for $125 the other day.

Well... to be fair... with the Micro you need to let in as much light as possible so a VND is necessary to minutely control the light and an IR Cut filter is an absolute necessity, so filter threads are kinda important.

You are allowed to put a Matte Box on the front with a filter holder. It has sort of been a widely use thing in filming for a Lot of years. And some are really not that expensive. I think they are a must have if you get serious about video. They help big time with lens flair also. And protect the lens to boot.

And with a rig using Rods and a Baseplate and a Matte Box it is a more stable rig to hold than just a naked camera. You have to have weight and multiple contact points to stabilize hand held. But a Monopod with the feet on them is really not too bad now. I still am not that big into Gimbals. They just don't look that natural to me.

[mercer]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

You are allowed to put a Matte Box on the front with a filter holder. It has sort of been a widely use thing in filming for a Lot of years. And some are really not that expensive. I think they are a must have if you get serious about video. They help big time with lens flair also. And protect the lens to boot.

And with a rig using Rods and a Baseplate and a Matte Box it is a more stable rig to hold than just a naked camera. You have to have weight and multiple contact points to stabilize hand held. But a Monopod with the feet on them is really not too bad now. I still am not that big into Gimbals. They just don't look that natural to me.

One of the issues I had when I originally owned the Micro was how big the camera grew once you rigged it out to make it functional... and I don’t mean fully rigged out with rods, bsseplage, follow focus, etc..., I mean a simple set up with the screen and the camera. Since selling my first one, a lot of add ons have arrived to make the camera a lot less cumbersome, so I don’t really foresee myself putting a matte box on a camera the size of a rubick’s cube, especially on a plastic native lens.

I’m really trying to get this camera set up so I have a 28mm (equivalent) FOV because I can comfortably go handheld with just a strap. However, there aren’t many inexpensive options to obtain that wide of a shot. So, it looks like a 35mm FOV will be my go to “focal length” and your suggestion of a monopod with the feet should work great, thanks.

Now the question becomes, should I go with a native lens... right now it’s between the SLR Magic 12mm, the Rokinon/Samyang 12mm or a Nikkor 20mm 3.5 on a speedbooster?

As a reminder, my goal with the Micro, is as a barebones Cinema Camera that I can go handheld with, or rig out if necessary, but more importantly it’s purpose is to keep the kit as basic and cheap as possible with one or two lenses.

[noone]

Some wide angle lenses have rear filter holders or you can buy purpose made adapter filters now or kludge together the glass from various filters into the space in some adapters (see the thread on the new filters for adapters).

[thebrothersthre3]

Yeah a 12mm is equivalent to a 28mm on APSC, which is definitely doable handheld with a strap. 

I'd probably go with an SLR magic. If you want to remain small the speedbooster adds extra weight.

An olympus 8mm 1.8 would be cool. 18mm APSC equivalent. Pricey tho

[mercer]

16 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Yeah a 12mm is equivalent to a 28mm on APSC, which is definitely doable handheld with a strap. 

I'd probably go with an SLR magic. If you want to remain small the speedbooster adds extra weight.

An olympus 8mm 1.8 would be cool. 18mm APSC equivalent. Pricey tho

A 12mm lens would give the FOV of an 18mm lens on aps-c. An 8mm would be a 12mm.

The SLR Magic is definitely a possibility if I can find one cheap enough. After further thought, though, I’ve decided I cannot justify using a lens that cost more than the camera.

The Nikkor 20mm 3.5 on the BMPCC Metabones adapter would equate to a 35mm 1.8 in FF terms.

I should add that I also have a Cine-Nikkor 10mm 1.8 c-mount lens. In my preliminary test, it wasn’t that sharp wide open but I only tested it for a few minutes around the house. I’m waiting for an IR Cut filter to give it a proper test and to see what f-stop it sharpens up at. Some positives are: it’s tiny, the focus has a short throw, I can handhold it steadily and there is zero focus breathing. And it looks cool as shit on the Micro. 

From some of the tests I’ve seen online, it sharpens up nicely when stopped down. If so, my 28mm f/2 speedboosted would give me a nice small two lens set with an equivalent 28mm and 50mm FOV.

Here’s a photo of the Cine-Nikkor 10mm 1.8...

As you can see, it’s very similar in design to the older non-ai Nikkor lenses... hopefully it will have the optical quality as well.

[thebrothersthre3]

26 minutes ago, mercer said:

A 12mm lens would give the FOV of an 18mm lens on aps-c. An 8mm would be a 12mm.

wait, a 12mm lens on an APSC camera would give the FOV of 18mm on full frame right? But 12mm on the Micro is a 2.8x crop right?  So the field of view would look like a 28mm would on an APSC camera 

Unless my understand of this is really poor lol 

[mercer]

13 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

wait, a 12mm lens on an APSC camera would give the FOV of 18mm on full frame right? But 12mm on the Micro is a 2.8x crop right?  So the field of view would look like a 28mm would on an APSC camera 

Unless my understand of this is really poor lol 

A 12mm lens is a 12mm lens. On FF, a 12mm lens would give the FOV of a 12mm lens. APS-C is 1.5x FF, so a 12mm lens on an APS-C camera would give the FOV of an 18mm FF lens. The Micro has a 2.88x crop, so a 12mm lens would give the FOV of a 35mm FF lens.

But yes, it is confusing. I was watching some Spielberg films and learned he prefers 30mm and under lenses... now that’s S35, so I had to go backwards to figure out the FF FOV... my brain almost melted. Lol.

But I really overthink this stuff... I’m half tempted to get a Speedbooster for 28mm f/2 and then get a Century Wide Angle converter and Telephoto converter... it would be a hell of a lot easier. 

[kye]

A little late to this conversation, but firstly congrats on buying the Micro!!  ???
We've spoken about this before and I know how cool this is and what it means for your projects!

I was reading through your posts and kept thinking C-mount (or even D-mount) would be the way to go considering your fondness for a wide prime and the crop factor, and then boom....!

4 hours ago, mercer said:

My advice would be to start with this bad-boy and only replace it if you've found it lacking from real use.  

When you say that it's not that sharp wide-open I'd encourage you to think about it the way I think of my fast primes - as two lenses.  A soft and emotive lens wide open, and a sharper more vanilla lens when stopped down a bit.  Almost like the aperture dial is a defocus control.

Rig it up, take it out, shoot the shit out of it.  Make lots of videos like people are making in the $200 camera challenge - kind of little test-shot montages.  The Micro sensor won't be that sharp anyway (1080 RAW), so you might find that the lens makes less difference than it would on a 4K h264 camera.  Also, you might be able to make that sharpness back with slightly more Midtone Detail on those shots than on the other ones.  Alternatively, you could apply a small blur to the sharper shots and just go for 100% vibes over straight-out resolution.  I'll say more on this later, but blurring footage can work magic if done right  

Man, a tiny Micro + C-mount setup is almost making me jealous!

[webrunner5]

On 7/23/2019 at 6:03 AM, kye said:

Very nice!

Absolutely!  @Jonesy Jones you should actually consider that!

Moment is a lens company that makes clip-on lenses for smartphones and the like.  They make some anamorphic lenses that you should be able to use with your iPad.  

They're not free, but they're probably under 10% of what it costs (in time and money) to get the next cheapest anamorphic setup  

Speaking of Moment Anamorphic. Pretty amazing auto WB, colors, and DR on the iPhone XS with not real effort involved in this video. I am always amazed with mine at times. I like my Moment Anamorphic and the Tele lens they have. Good stuff. And the case for it is not intrusive when not using their lenses. I have a cheap wide angle lens. Really not too bad.

 

 

[kye]

17 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Speaking of Moment Anamorphic. Pretty amazing auto WB, colors, and DR on the iPhone XS with not real effort involved in this video. I am always amazed with mine at times. I like my Moment Anamorphic and the Tele lens they have. Good stuff. And the case for it is not intrusive when not using their lenses. I have a cheap wide angle lens. Really not too bad.

Here's a general question that will show my ignorance of anamorphics...  if the lens on an iPhone has a particular FOV, what happens when you put the anamorphic lens onto it?  Does it the horizontal angle of view get wider?  Does the vertical get less?  Both?

Making the default lens wider would be worth something - I much prefer a 16mm FOV over a 24 or 28mm FOV.

[leslie]

On 7/23/2019 at 12:47 PM, mercer said:

Put a Moment Anamorphic on that bitch and go shoot a film.

it wouldn't be the strangest thing i have seen out there ?

[webrunner5]

Oh it gets wider, a Lot wider. Yeah it seems the vertical gets shorter. The Moment app, and the FILMIC Pro app let you see it in real time unsqueezed. You can put the Anamorphic lens on either the normal or Tele lens on my iPhone XS. So you can get different focal lengths.

Not sure about what mm it ends up? To be honest I guess it might stay the same mm wise, you just have a lot wider view of what you are shooting, so it appears wider?? Late at night lol. I need to go to bed.

[thephoenix]

47 minutes ago, kye said:

Here's a general question that will show my ignorance of anamorphics...  if the lens on an iPhone has a particular FOV, what happens when you put the anamorphic lens onto it?  Does it the horizontal angle of view get wider?  Does the vertical get less?  Both?

Making the default lens wider would be worth something - I much prefer a 16mm FOV over a 24 or 28mm FOV.

depends on the stretch but yes it goes wider for sure, vigneting is an issue so got to be carefull with it

[Adam Kuźniar]

17 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Your just coming up with excuses. That is what separates the men from the boys. That is why some peoples stuff stand out.

This made me laugh more than you think. Especially that line about men and the boys, because boys with their smaller hands would have less trouble focusing on the 20mm than man.

17 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

And yes the Tokina 11-16 is a nice lens. But I would not call 22mm on a m4/3 body really wide in this day and age.

I understand you were sitting in a cave for the past 5-10 years so I'll enlighten you - there are those things called speedboosters and they magically make the 11-16 a 16-28 ff equivalent. So pretty close to "seeing the light" as you said  

[heart0less]

7 hours ago, kye said:

if the lens on an iPhone has a particular FOV, what happens when you put the anamorphic lens onto it?  Does it the horizontal angle of view get wider?  Does the vertical get less?  Both?

Your horizontal FOV gets wider (usually 1.33 times [hence 1.33x in the name]), while vertical FOV stays the same. 

[thebrothersthre3]

17 hours ago, mercer said:

A 12mm lens is a 12mm lens. On FF, a 12mm lens would give the FOV of a 12mm lens. APS-C is 1.5x FF, so a 12mm lens on an APS-C camera would give the FOV of an 18mm FF lens. The Micro has a 2.88x crop, so a 12mm lens would give the FOV of a 35mm FF lens.

But yes, it is confusing. I was watching some Spielberg films and learned he prefers 30mm and under lenses... now that’s S35, so I had to go backwards to figure out the FF FOV... my brain almost melted. Lol.

But I really overthink this stuff... I’m half tempted to get a Speedbooster for 28mm f/2 and then get a Century Wide Angle converter and Telephoto converter... it would be a hell of a lot easier. 

Yeah I usually think of things in terms of S35 as that is what I have shot with most of my life. Which is why I was speaking of the field of view of the 12mm on a S35 sensor rather than full frame. 

[kye]

56 minutes ago, heart0less said:

Your horizontal FOV gets wider (usually 1.33 times [hence 1.33x in the name]), while vertical FOV stays the same. 

So, if it's a 1.33x adapter on a 24mm equiv FOV then would it have the same horizontal FOV as an 18mm then?  That's pretty freaking wide, which (IMHO) is pretty awesome.  My 16mm equiv wide angle gives great perspective when the subject calls for it...

 

 

[heart0less]

11 minutes ago, kye said:

So, if it's a 1.33x adapter on a 24mm equiv FOV then would it have the same horizontal FOV as an 18mm then?

Yup, that's correct. 

And at the same time you get a whole lot of sexy distortion and (not so sexy, since they're usually colored green) flares. 

 

All that for ~35 $, if you decide to get some Chinese knock-offs like this:

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/SNn5fes

 

A lot of folks from Anamorphic Shooters Facebook group bought the lens I linked above and are very happy with it, even when compared to OG Moment / Moondog solutions. 

[webrunner5]

5 hours ago, Adam Kuźniar said:

This made me laugh more than you think. Especially that line about men and the boys, because boys with their smaller hands would have less trouble focusing on the 20mm than man.

I understand you were sitting in a cave for the past 5-10 years so I'll enlighten you - there are those things called speedboosters and they magically make the 11-16 a 16-28 ff equivalent. So pretty close to "seeing the light" as you said  

I have had 2 of those lenses and never seemed to have too much of a problem, and I have Big fat fingers. But a G7 is the biggest body I ever had one on. Yeah not the easiest one to get to no doubt.

And I am too poor to afford a Speedbooster lol. Lucky to buy the lens! Doesn't much matter. Right now I don't even have a camera to put a lens on lol.

[mercer]

19 hours ago, kye said:

A little late to this conversation, but firstly congrats on buying the Micro!!  ???
We've spoken about this before and I know how cool this is and what it means for your projects!

I was reading through your posts and kept thinking C-mount (or even D-mount) would be the way to go considering your fondness for a wide prime and the crop factor, and then boom....!

My advice would be to start with this bad-boy and only replace it if you've found it lacking from real use.  

When you say that it's not that sharp wide-open I'd encourage you to think about it the way I think of my fast primes - as two lenses.  A soft and emotive lens wide open, and a sharper more vanilla lens when stopped down a bit.  Almost like the aperture dial is a defocus control.

Rig it up, take it out, shoot the shit out of it.  Make lots of videos like people are making in the $200 camera challenge - kind of little test-shot montages.  The Micro sensor won't be that sharp anyway (1080 RAW), so you might find that the lens makes less difference than it would on a 4K h264 camera.  Also, you might be able to make that sharpness back with slightly more Midtone Detail on those shots than on the other ones.  Alternatively, you could apply a small blur to the sharper shots and just go for 100% vibes over straight-out resolution.  I'll say more on this later, but blurring footage can work magic if done right  

Man, a tiny Micro + C-mount setup is almost making me jealous!

Thanks, I bought it for a stupid price, so it was a no brainer. Of course, I remembered quickly why I went the 5D3 ML route instead of the BM route a couple years ago. But this will force me to sit down and put the work in. And I’ll still get the ease of ProRes. So, like you said, it will be great for certain projects.

I think you’re right about the c-mount. Last year, I was forced to use my Canon 28mm lens and due to the circumstances, I took the time to learn the nuances of the lens and focal length and I think I’m better off for it.

It’s been a long road but I’ve learned a lot about myself as a filmmaker and weirdly the joke I made earlier about a 50mm lens and a wide angle/telephoto adapter would almost suit me better than a collection of focal length lens sets... if I can get over my indecisive nature. Lol.