Lenses

[BTM_Pix]

On 12/2/2023 at 4:02 AM, kye said:

keen to hear from @BTM_Pix 

I'll give you a proper answer later next week when I've got a bit more time.

There might even be some images involved.

[mercer]

I have realized that I love lenses that vignette, so much so, that I will add vignettes in post to either enhance the natural vignette, or to add a vignette that wasn't there.

So obviously, I know it can be added in post, but I'd love some recommendations of good lenses that vignette.

The mount or format isn't much of a concern... actually I'd love to hear about different lenses from different mounts.

[BTM_Pix]

35 minutes ago, mercer said:

So obviously, I know it can be added in post, but I'd love some recommendations of good lenses that vignette.

There is an argument that good lens that vignettes are contradictions in terms but I know what you mean !

You'll hate me for pointing you in this direction but based on stuff I've seen from @Andrew Reid , the "slightly bigger than full frame" of the GFX100 yields some really pleasant results vignette wise when using old SLR lenses on it.

Sledgehammer to crack a nut though obviously.

[mercer]

17 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

There is an argument that good lens that vignettes are contradictions in terms but I know what you mean !

Obviously, I understand the contradiction... haha. And I knew you'd know what I meant.

I end up reaching for my Canon 28mm 1.8 a lot of times because it has that vignette that allows me to push the exposure a little higher in certain situations because I know that the vignette will help to cloak my highlights a little.

And I know I've mentioned the Sigma 30mm 1.4 Art that covers full frame with a pleasing vignette... I just haven't found one for the right price yet.

21 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

You'll hate me for pointing you in this direction but based on stuff I've seen from @Andrew Reid , the "slightly bigger than full frame" of the GFX100 yields some really pleasant results vignette wise when using old SLR lenses on it.

My mouth is watering just thinking about it. If I could figure out how to make money with any of this crap, I'd probably own one by now. 

[PannySVHS]

20mm Nikon AI was vignetting pretty strongly wide open at f3.5 on full frame and the 35mm f2 as well iirc. @mercer  My Canon Fd 28mm f2 has a lovely little vignette on FF when wide open. Only tested it wide open so i cannot talk about other apertures.

[eatstoomuchjam]

The 50mm f/1 Noctilux vignettes like crazy on full frame.

[QuickHitRecord]

Can anyone recommend any non-cinema c-mount zooms without the little dips caused by the internal runners when wide open? So far, I've only heard of two:

Canon V10X15 15-150 f2.8

Cosmicar 22.5-90 f1.5

I'm still trying to make this a "no gear year", but that doesn't mean I can't look!

[kye]

8 hours ago, QuickHitRecord said:

Can anyone recommend any non-cinema c-mount zooms without the little dips caused by the internal runners when wide open? So far, I've only heard of two:

Canon V10X15 15-150 f2.8

Cosmicar 22.5-90 f1.5

I'm still trying to make this a "no gear year", but that doesn't mean I can't look!

Window shopping is technically allowed, but you've walked right up to the line my friend, so don't lose balance or focus!!

The lens(es) that come immediately to mind are the Meteor zooms from the USSR..  They have clean bokeh (linked to timestamp):

They're m42 mount, but can be adapted easily: https://fotodioxpro.com/products/m42-c-p-v2

Do you want them to be specifically c-mount?  Why? (I'm curious)

I'd imagine that adapting FF or S35 lenses would be much more fruitful?  My impression of c-mount zooms is that most are 15-22mm on the wide end, which is pretty easy to replicate with FF or S35 manual zooms if you can get a speed booster in the stack.  I got a manual RMC Tokina 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 in m42 mount that combined with my m42-m43 speed booster gives me 20-50mm equivalent, and a nice vintage vibe without being too mangled (so it's the optical quality of a high-end c-mount zoom from back in the day).

What camera is this for?

[QuickHitRecord]

Haha. The line! I know. It's so hard to stay on the right side. I'll admit that I've slipped a little and in a moment of weakness, I purchased a $50 point-and-shoot as an every day carry (big mistake; I was quickly reminded that I just can't get excited about cameras without a substantial grip). But other than that, I've been very disciplined these past four months.

My interest in c-mount lenses revolves around the EOS-M. I enjoy the combination of 16mm glass with this little camera in 1:1 crop. There is an aesthetic there that is more interesting to me than anything I've been able to get from my S35 and FF cameras. My theory is that sampling from a smaller piece of the sensor in combination with tiny glass throws out enough detail and in turn, brings some mystery/intrigue/engagement to the footage that is missing from most digital S35+ footage. And this is coming from someone who ignored c-mount lenses until 3-4 years ago; I didn't see the point.

Before my self-imposed embargo, I decided to put together the most economical raw-shooting camera package that I could possibly think of. I got there with the M and three Cosmicar c-mount lenses (I also have a set of three Kern Switars, but they were significantly more expensive). Working with such a lightweight, low-cost kit and yet fully functional kit is freeing. What I'm missing (though, not really) is an inexpensive zoom lens that can go wider than 15mm, but most have that ugly track that I can't get past.

However, the Meteor is an intriguing lens. And they are still quite affordable.

I think I can say that rigged up, the EOS-M/c-mount combo makes me want to get out there and shoot more than any of the other 30+ cameras I've owned (other than maybe my beloved FZ47). It's way more fun than any other cine cameras that I can think of. If I get a couple of nice shots with it, or I am able to crop in a little further in-camera to eliminate some vignetting on an otherwise overlooked lens, I feel like I'm breaking the rules. It offers just the right amount of limitation, which I find to be inspiring.

[kye]

1 hour ago, QuickHitRecord said:

Haha. The line! I know. It's so hard to stay on the right side. I'll admit that I've slipped a little and in a moment of weakness, I purchased a $50 point-and-shoot as an every day carry (big mistake; I was quickly reminded that I just can't get excited about cameras without a substantial grip). But other than that, I've been very disciplined these past four months.

My interest in c-mount lenses revolves around the EOS-M. I enjoy the combination of 16mm glass with this little camera in 1:1 crop. There is an aesthetic there that is more interesting to me than anything I've been able to get from my S35 and FF cameras. My theory is that sampling from a smaller piece of the sensor in combination with tiny glass throws out enough detail and in turn, brings some mystery/intrigue/engagement to the footage that is missing from most digital S35+ footage. And this is coming from someone who ignored c-mount lenses until 3-4 years ago; I didn't see the point.

Before my self-imposed embargo, I decided to put together the most economical raw-shooting camera package that I could possibly think of. I got there with the M and three Cosmicar c-mount lenses (I also have a set of three Kern Switars, but they were significantly more expensive). Working with such a lightweight, low-cost kit and yet fully functional kit is freeing. What I'm missing (though, not really) is an inexpensive zoom lens that can go wider than 15mm, but most have that ugly track that I can't get past.

However, the Meteor is an intriguing lens. And they are still quite affordable.

I think I can say that rigged up, the EOS-M/c-mount combo makes me want to get out there and shoot more than any of the other 30+ cameras I've owned (other than maybe my beloved FZ47). It's way more fun than any other cine cameras that I can think of. If I get a couple of nice shots with it, or I am able to crop in a little further in-camera to eliminate some vignetting on an otherwise overlooked lens, I feel like I'm breaking the rules. It offers just the right amount of limitation, which I find to be inspiring.

That X-factor that some cameras have is equally baffling and also completely compelling..... I understand / sympathise!

Wider than 15mm in a manual lens is definitely a struggle.  What is the crop factor of the EOS-M 1:1 mode you're using?  There are a plethora of vintage and new c-mount lenses all over eBay but the trick is to understand the size of the image circle they project and the size you need.  The OG BM cameras had a crop factor of 2.88, which was quite large in the world of c-mount compared to the CCTV applications, I have spent many an hour searching eBay item-by-item googling each one to find the size of the image circle - normally to reject every lens I could afford and then just spiralling off to search in reverse-price-order and watch videos of the Angenieux lenses that are sitting there for sale for the price of a newish car.

Meteor made a few lenses, some starting at 17mm and others at 22mm IIRC, but I'm no expert on their history.  They were made in quantity so are accessible and I don't think people really knew about them when S16 was in-demand so they're priced reasonably.  Also, most of the lens tests I've seen show that they're super-soft and vintage, but there are a few on YT where the images are super-sharp and clean, so I'm not sure if some copies are bad, or if most of the people testing them don't know what they're doing, or if most testers wanted that heavy vintage look, or if they simply uploaded them in 720p at pathetic bitrates because no-one knew how YT compression worked back then.  TBH, most of the videos with these vintage lenses are either by people that don't know anything about anything, or they're by people who want the vintage look and so are pushing the quality to be as crap as possible and not showing the capabilities of the equipment.  It shits me that most of the OG BMPCC tests are like this - people don't take the time to show the potential.

[MrSMW]

I’ve just had some ‘slippage’ myself and ordered the latest version of the Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 to complete what will now be a triumvirate of E Mount lenses adapted to my Nikon Z cameras.

That is: 20-40, 28-75 and 70-180.

Several options available at the wider end but 20 and 40 are two ‘perfect’ focal lengths for me and with all my zooms, this is how I use them, - as a twin prime set up with a single turn rather than needing to change a lens.

The 70-180 at a touch over 900g, is the only ‘70-200’ in full frame under 1kg with the other options being approx 1250-1500g, plus physically much larger, so for me, the best long lens available.

The 28-75 is an easy pick for me over any of the more trad 24-70’s, all of which are larger and heavier, plus 24mm is a meh focal length to me and though it’s only 5mm, longer is better.

The only other viable option is the Sigma 28-70mm which is slightly smaller and lighter still, but zooms in the other direction so doesn’t fit with those other bookend zooms.

Finally, being E Mount, I can use them adapted on Z or should things ever change into a Sony body direction, I already have the glass.

And then there is the 35-150mm f2-2.8

I have not got one and have zero intention of doing so but if I needed a ‘one and done’, this would be it, my point being that for my needs, Tamron is in a league of one when it comes to lenses so I have been building my next gen system around them.

And yes, I am aware that it has just been announced that the Tamron 28-75mm G2 is shortly arriving in Z Mount, but as above, I have more options down the road with E Mount. Plus I’m not paying the Nikon lens tax!

[MrSMW]

38 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

The 70-180 at a touch over 900g

Correction, it weighs 855g compared with say Sigmas new 70-200 at 1335g, so around 1/2kg or 1lb heavier.

OK, the latter is without question a more sophisticated and robust bit of kit, but I know which I’d rather lug around all day and that is the factor that swings it for me personally.

[QuickHitRecord]

On 6/1/2023 at 5:45 PM, PannySVHS said:

I wished there was a small mechanical S16 2x or 3x zoom as a carry around lens for my OG Bmpcc and Bmmcc. There are none.

I've been looking for pretty much the same thing and I think that this might be the answer IF it can fit into a c-mount adapter, thought the base of this lens looks flat and too large. It might have to be shaved down.

[kye]

3 hours ago, QuickHitRecord said:

I've been looking for pretty much the same thing and I think that this might be the answer IF it can fit into a c-mount adapter, thought the base of this lens looks flat and too large. It might have to be shaved down.

One thing that you might not have anticipated is the ergonomics of such a lens.

I bought a CCTV zoom lens to modify my action camera, and it has two rings - focus and zoom (it doesn't have an aperture) but they don't work how you'd think.  On a normal lens you'd expect that the focus would stay in the same spot (or similar) throughout the zoom range, but on the lens I have it's almost the exact opposite.  On my lens, moving both the zoom and focus rings together maintains a broadly-similar focus distance as the zoom changes.  The lens you buy could be anywhere in-between.

Also, my lens has enormously non-linear travel of the focus mechanism, which means that to make an adjustment in focus at one setting only requires a very small amount of force, but at another area of the focus travel it takes a large amount more force to move the focus the same small amount.  The lens contains oil to make it move smoothly, but this makes the movement a bit odd - when you first try to get it moving it's like there's some suction holding it in place but once it starts to move the resistance drops very quickly.  This combined with the small travel and very small size of the lens means that making a small adjustment to nail critical focus is extremely difficult.

These quirks are symptoms of the fact that these lenses are designed to be installed in fixed locations, adjusted, and then left that way for perhaps their entire lifetime.  Ease of use to focus quickly and easily hundreds or thousands of times wasn't in their design remit.

Anyway, the lens you linked to looks like it's designed to be used by a human at least (mine has locking screws as the only thing to grip onto) but I'd see if you can find a review first, so you know what you're buying.

[QuickHitRecord]

21 hours ago, kye said:

On my lens, moving both the zoom and focus rings together maintains a broadly-similar focus distance as the zoom changes.

That seems quite bizarre! Which lens is this?

Quote

...but I'd see if you can find a review first, so you know what you're buying.

I can't find a single review online, so it's anyone's guess what it would be like to actually use.

[mercer]

2 hours ago, QuickHitRecord said:

That seems quite bizarre! Which lens is this?

I can't find a single review online, so it's anyone's guess what it would be like to actually use.

I think by moving the zoom and focus ring at the same time is creating a hyperfocal thing.

I just checked the zoom lens I used to use with the eos-m years ago with magic lantern and it's a Cosmicar 12.5-75mm f/1.8...

But with that S8 crop, it's hardly a wide angle. I remember it being okay enough optically though.

I believe there are a few 8-48mm c-mount lenses floating around too. If you weren't looking for a zoom, I'd recommend the Kowa 6mm 1.8 lens that seems to be a great little lens and can still be bought new... although a little pricey. 

[kye]

3 hours ago, QuickHitRecord said:

That seems quite bizarre! Which lens is this?

It was this one:

I modified my SJ4000 action camera with it:

When zoomed out the lens doesn't have great close-focus but about 2/3 of the focus range is past infinity, and when zoomed out it can only focus past infinity by a tiny little bit but is perfectly capable of focusing on the dust on the front element and then of going even closer and focusing on the dust inside the lens.

[QuickHitRecord]

9 hours ago, mercer said:

I just checked the zoom lens I used to use with the eos-m years ago with magic lantern and it's a Cosmicar 12.5-75mm f/1.8...

But with that S8 crop, it's hardly a wide angle. I remember it being okay enough optically though.

I have a similar unbranded lens that's f1.6. With the 2.5K crop mode, it's almost perfectly usable throughout the range. It's a fun little lens, and very versatile. The only downsides are the rotating filter threads, slight vignette at certain focal lengths, the zooming mechanisms/runners showing up in bokeh when shooting wide open, and spikey party-favor bokeh when closed down. So, there are some compromises.

I was looking around the ZLKC storefront on AliExpress and there are lots of neat 1.1" c-mount lenses on offer. I would imagine that they would cover S16, but I can't find any reviews.

Have you installed Crop Mood yet? The M becomes a whole new camera.

8 hours ago, kye said:

It was this one:

I modified my SJ4000 action camera with it:

When zoomed out the lens doesn't have great close-focus but about 2/3 of the focus range is past infinity, and when zoomed out it can only focus past infinity by a tiny little bit but is perfectly capable of focusing on the dust on the front element and then of going even closer and focusing on the dust inside the lens.

Ah, yes. I remember that mod. It was one of my favorite threads on this site. Once you start getting into 1/2" lenses and smaller, it really is uncharted territory. Too bad there aren't many interchangeable lens cameras that can work with them.

[mercer]

On 4/1/2024 at 1:58 PM, QuickHitRecord said:

I have a similar unbranded lens that's f1.6. With the 2.5K crop mode, it's almost perfectly usable throughout the range. It's a fun little lens, and very versatile. The only downsides are the rotating filter threads, slight vignette at certain focal lengths, the zooming mechanisms/runners showing up in bokeh when shooting wide open, and spikey party-favor bokeh when closed down. So, there are some compromises.

I was looking around the ZLKC storefront on AliExpress and there are lots of neat 1.1" c-mount lenses on offer. I would imagine that they would cover S16, but I can't find any reviews.

Have you installed Crop Mood yet? The M becomes a whole new camera.

Ah, yes. I remember that mod. It was one of my favorite threads on this site. Once you start getting into 1/2" lenses and smaller, it really is uncharted territory. Too bad there aren't many interchangeable lens cameras that can work with them.

Haha, I haven't used mine in so long that I can't say if it suffers from the same afflictions.

I'd love to mess around with ML on the eos-m, but it seems my camera is broke and won't turn on any more. It could be that all of my batteries went bad... I used to buy really cheap ones.

[mercer]

In other news, I finally had a chance to get out and shoot some stuff yesterday with the FP. For this outing I brought along an oldie, but a goodie... the Super Multi-Coated Takumar 50mm 1.4.

Here are a couple shots that didn't turn out terrible...

I'm still using my old MB Air from 2014, so I can't always say the image posted looks exactly like my graded image. I hope to upgrade my computer soon enough.

That said, I'm in the middle of a test for a short film I am hoping to make this summer.

But to stay on topic, I forgot how amazing the Tak 50mm is and I really like it with the FP.