Lenses

[Geoff CB]

32 minutes ago, mercer said:

So, it didn't even match color wise with your angenieux Tokina?

Noo not even close. The 28-70 is based on a much older lens design. Color maybe a bit closer than Nikon/Canon, but nowhere close on "look" and rendering. That 11-20 is razor sharp, so to get it close to matching you would need to soften it significantly either with a filter or in post to match the 28-70.

For event work I'd use them both. Never for a matching interview or film shoot though.

[mercer]

50 minutes ago, Geoff CB said:

Noo not even close. The 28-70 is based on a much older lens design. Color maybe a bit closer than Nikon/Canon, but nowhere close on "look" and rendering. That 11-20 is razor sharp, so to get it close to matching you would need to soften it significantly either with a filter or in post to match the 28-70.

For event work I'd use them both. Never for a matching interview or film shoot though.

Good to know, thanks. Every time I think I may want a modern lens, I read about how clean and perfectly sharp they are and I hear... clinical. I think I'll just end up buying the RMC 17mm or the AT-X 17mm... Either one of those would probably match my Tokina manual AT-X zooms better. 

Do you have any videos online with the 58mm Voigtlander on the 750 or 800 (810... Whichever you had)

[Nikkor]

Modern nikkor primes aren't exactly clinical unless you go for macros. But they don't have aperture rings and they are very expensive.

[Geoff CB]

Hey guys Keh.com has an insane deal going on right now on old lenses 25% off everything.

[jonpais]

I don't give a ... what DXO mark or DPReview have to say about anything. I finally had a chance to go out and shoot with the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 DCDN for u43, and it's one of the sharpest lenses I own, if not the sharpest, and color rendition is superb. If it were a Leica, it would be getting lots of press, but very few have even bothered to put up videos shot with this lens, which in my opinion is as good as any in Sigma's Art line. It is fast, light as hell, tack sharp and you could buy four of these puppies for the price of one Leica Summilux. If Sigma ever get around to releasing a 12mm f/1.4 for u43, I'm dumping my Vario G X 12-35mm f/2.8 and good riddance! I'll try to post some clips straight out of the camera tomorrow afternoon.

[jonpais]

I may just bite the bullet and get the Samyang 12mm f/2 for u43 after all. It's gotten great reviews, it's cheap as hell and lightweight, around the same as the Sigma 30mm Contemporary lens. Center sharpness from f/2.8 onwards is quite good, the edges are acceptable. Most reviewers say there is quite a bit of vignetting and apparently, the infinity mark isn't accurate on any of their copies. There is also no depth-of-field scale, which is kind of disappointing. However, if closed down to f/5.6, it will already be sharp from 7 ft. to infinity, which would be useful when flying on a gimbal. Now I'm just trying to decide whether to buy the cine version or not. As far as I can tell, the only thing that differentiate the lenses is the gears and declicked aperture ring on the cine version. Price difference is negligible. 

[mercer]

5 hours ago, jonpais said:

I don't give a ... what DXO mark or DPReview have to say about anything. I finally had a chance to go out and shoot with the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 DCDN for u43, and it's one of the sharpest lenses I own, if not the sharpest, and color rendition is superb. If it were a Leica, it would be getting lots of press, but very few have even bothered to put up videos shot with this lens, which in my opinion is as good as any in Sigma's Art line. It is fast, light as hell, tack sharp and you could buy four of these puppies for the price of one Leica Summilux. If Sigma ever get around to releasing a 12mm f/1.4 for u43, I'm dumping my Vario G X 12-35mm f/2.8 and good riddance! I'll try to post some clips straight out of the camera tomorrow afternoon.

I've been curious about this lens for a while, I have the 2.8 19&30mm lenses and I like them, but they're a little slow for a prime. Glad to hear the contemporary is a good lens. How's the focus ring... Crap I suppose?

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

I may just bite the bullet and get the Samyang 12mm f/2 for u43 after all. It's gotten great reviews, it's cheap as hell and lightweight, around the same as the Sigma 30mm Contemporary lens. Center sharpness from f/2.8 onwards is quite good, the edges are acceptable. Most reviewers say there is quite a bit of vignetting and apparently, the infinity mark isn't accurate on any of their copies. There is also no depth-of-field scale, which is kind of disappointing. However, if closed down to f/5.6, it will already be sharp from 7 ft. to infinity, which would be useful when flying on a gimbal. Now I'm just trying to decide whether to buy the cine version or not. As far as I can tell, the only thing that differentiate the lenses is the gears and declicked aperture ring on the cine version. Price difference is negligible. 

Another lens I am really interested in. I want to see how my old Cosmicar lenses do with the GH3 and how much I get along with her before I commit, but this Rokinon Cine looks like a no brainer to me. 

Here's a video I found on Vimeo with it on a GH4. Obviously, this guy did an amazing color job, but the lens looks pretty damn good to me. 

 

Haha, and this seems to be his director's cut...

 

[jonpais]

16 hours ago, mercer said:

I've been curious about this lens for a while, I have the 2.8 19&30mm lenses and I like them, but they're a little slow for a prime. Glad to hear the contemporary is a good lens. How's the focus ring... Crap I suppose?

Another lens I am really interested in. I want to see how my old Cosmicar lenses do with the GH3 and how much I get along with her before I commit, but this Rokinon Cine looks like a no brainer to me.

 

@mercer The Sigma 30mm F/1.4 might be compared to those cameras we call a sensor in a box - it's really just some elements in a black tube. 

When I go out and shoot, I almost always set the GH4 to manual focus, with one function button for monochrome live view (helps to see peaking), one function button for peaking, and another for AF Mode/MF (focus assist). In very low light, or when I need to work quickly, or if I'm just plain lazy, I drag my finger on the touch screen to select AF. I prefer the last method because I can see peaking with AF - in the other modes, no.

The lens barrel has virtually no markings, other than the name of the manufacturer, a u43 logo, a shiny sticker with a 'C' and the words 'Made in Japan'. That's it. The focus ring has no stops. I understand it will behave differently according to how quickly it is turned, but I have no problem with it  at all - it's nicely dampened, though obviously it's no Voigtlander. ? There, I'm becoming worse than those trolls who keep mentioning some obscure camera produced by a manufacturer of exploding phones. ?

When I was younger, I used to collect classical music, and I'd buy records based on reviews in popular magazines like The Gramophone. When I'd get home and listen to their recommended recordings however, I was often disappointed in what I'd heard, and ended up throwing away a lot of money on mediocre performances. I finally found a critic whose judgement I trusted: my ears were able to hear what he described in the pieces he wrote about. And just like music criticism, lens reviews may lead readers to buy a few good lenses, not buy many lenses that are great value for the money, and end up with a number of lenses that never get used.

Take this for example:

Unlike the APS-C version [of the Sigma 30mm f/1.4] which undoubtedly sits atop the E-mount range as one of the sharpest lenses avaiable, the Micro Four Thirds version falls behind lenses available in that mount's more diverse lens selection. - DPReview

and compare to this, from the conclusion of a review over at LensTip:

If you look at the Micro 4/3 system’s line-up it is actually the best lens in its class available on the market.

To be fair, DPReview did give the Sigma a Silver Award. ?

 

 

[jonpais]

And here's my brief test:

I used a Hoya NDX8 ND Filter for all shots.

Free background music from JewelBeat.com

[jonpais]

So I visited a few camera stores this morning, looking for the Samyang 12mm T2.2 Cine lens for u43. Nobody had one in stock. The last store I went to, before I could open my mouth, the manager approached me and asked, "how would you like to buy a brand new Leica 42.5mm f/1.2 lens for $1,050.00?" Suffice to say, I didn't leave the store empty-handed.  i think the manager was trying to make amends, because around a month ago I wanted to purchase a Nokotn 17.5mm and they said they'd get back to me later that afternoon, but they never called, so I bought it from another dealer. A couple days later, I went to the shop and told the manager how disappointed I was, since I'd purchased my GH4 from them. While I was there, one proud customer had just bought a Leica SL with 24-90mm lens. I asked if I could hold it. It felt like it was chiseled out of one solid block of steel. Anyway, I stopped at a camera repair shop/coffee shop (yes, I'm not kidding!) on the way home and tried to put my GH4 plus Leica 42.55mm on the Crane, only to realize that the Leica is bigger than the GH4 body. So, I have to find some way of making it fit.

[jonpais]

On 11/5/2016 at 10:47 PM, mercer said:

I've been curious about this lens for a while, I have the 2.8 19&30mm lenses and I like them, but they're a little slow for a prime. Glad to hear the contemporary is a good lens. How's the focus ring... Crap I suppose?

Here are two graphs from LensTip.com comparing the Sigma 30mm f/2.8 to the Sigma 30mm f/1.4. So already the 30mm f/1.4 lens at the widest aperture is getting usable results, by f/2 the resolution at the edge of the frame has surpassed the older design, and at f/2.8 the results can only be called sensational. This again shows the advantages of fast lenses - they have a chance to correct for aberrations before diffraction sets in from around f/5.6-f/8. So the newer lens might have one or even two more useful stops than those lenses whose widest aperture is f/2.8 or f/4. I'd say any lens that has three stops where the lens achieves critical sharpness is more than acceptable. Of course, I'm aware that there's more to a lens than just resolution. With the Panasonic Lumix G 12-60 mm f/3.5-5.6 for example, the performance at the widest aperture in the center of the frame is great, less so as focal length increases, and at all apertures, the edges of the frame are nothing to write home about. Which is why, if I were to purchase a zoom, I'd rather have one with more modest parameters. But again, all lens manufacturers are racing to meet the market demand for zooms that cover a wide range, especially for those who travel and don't want to bring along a ton of lenses.

 

[Cinegain]

Interesting. I have the 19mm and other 30mm from Sigma as well, the f/2.8 EX DN ones (they were a hundo each back in the day because they (with grippy focus rings) got replaced by a newer version). Can't fault them optically, one of the dang sharpest out there and man, that price. Unbeatable. Built/mechanically... has been kinda meh, but you know. It's like a candywrapper around a tasty and fancy chocolats. In the end it's just about the taste and making you want to have more of it! Wouldn't hurt I guess to swap the f/2.8 out for the f/1.4. They ask around 399 EUR for one around here. I can get it from Amazon.co.uk for 279 EUR (excl. shipping, but there's a 'buy a 40 GBP giftcard, get 6 GBP credit'-deal anyways, so even less than 279 in the end). Cash in on the f/2.8 and then the f/1.4 is starting to look light a mighty interesting addition, especially if it really is as good as some say it is. I have some manual or vintage glass that's f/1.4 or faster, but otherwise, I guess I'm currently limited to native electronic M43-mount of f/1.7. Could be interesting paired with the GX80/G80, this one.

-- ooh, and congrats on the Panaleica. That's like the holy grail one. Still find that pretty dang pricey for a single focal length lens (I've only spent that kinda money on a zoom), myself, but yeah, that look tho!

[jonpais]

34 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

Interesting. I have the 19mm and other 30mm from Sigma as well, the f/2.8 EX DN ones (they were a hundo each back in the day because they (with grippy focus rings) got replaced by a newer version). Can't fault them optically, one of the dang sharpest out there and man, that price. Unbeatable. Built/mechanically... has been kinda meh, but you know. It's like a candywrapper around a tasty and fancy chocolats. In the end it's just about the taste and making you want to have more of it! Wouldn't hurt I guess to swap the f/2.8 out for the f/1.4. They ask around 399 EUR for one around here. I can get it from Amazon.co.uk for 279 EUR (excl. shipping, but there's a 'buy a 40 GBP giftcard, get 6 GBP credit'-deal anyways, so even less than 279 in the end). Cash in on the f/2.8 and then the f/1.4 is starting to look light a mighty interesting addition, especially if it really is as good as some say it is. I have some manual or vintage glass that's f/1.4 or faster, but otherwise, I guess I'm currently limited to native electronic M43-mount of f/1.7. Could be interesting paired with the GX80/G80, this one.

399 euro, what the hell? 279 euro, okay, that's reasonable. Perhaps unsurprisingly, there are very few reviews of this lens aside from the E-mount version, and next to no actual videos that are any good, at least for someone who does mostly street shooting like I do. I know some online reviewers were saying the lens they had (E mount) was noisy, large and even de-centered, Some trolls were even saying that Sigma doesn't bother about quality control. But the micro four-thirds copy I have looks fine. And a last word about AF noise - I never, never, ever use continuous AF while shooting, so I don't see that as an issue, at least not now. And I'm not very optimistic about the GH5 having super-duper continuous AF either.

Edit: I set my GH4 according to Gordon Laing's recommendations to avoid focus 'hunting':

The Lumix GH4 has three main focusing modes, selected with a dedicated collar on the back: AFS (Single), AFC (Continuous) and MF (Manual focus). The AFS mode is actually labeled AFS / AFF, with the choice adjusted in a menu and set to AFF by default. This means when the GH4's AF switch is set to AFS / AFF, it may actually be operating in AFF mode and automatically switching between single and continuous as it sees fit. While this seems to work well in casual use, I prefer to set it to Single AF in the menus so I know there won't be any unexpected hunting. There's two pre-focusing options, one which refocuses as you recompose, and another which focuses on the AF area when you first bring your eye to the viewfinder. Both allow the GH4 to essentially focus on a likely subject before you've even had a chance to think about pressing the shutter. They certainly speed up the operation, although again I preferred to override this and turn both off.

[Cinegain]

Yeah, that was appreciated, looked good. Coincidentally I saw a shot taken with one in this weekend's line-up at 43rumors: http://www.43rumors.com/weekly-43rumors-readers-pictures-roundup-122/ that looked really nice. Just snagged the 1 remaining stock one from Amazon UK. I've gotten curious!

-- dispatched; arriving the 17th 

[jonpais]

Here's a clip I just dragged and dropped from the SD card directly into YouTube. Lumix GH4 and Sigma 30mm f/1.4 DC DN for MFT. It was shot with sharpening and contrast turned way down (-4). The test I posted earlier, most of the shots were around f/5 or so. This one was at f/2.8.

 

[mercer]

7 hours ago, jonpais said:

Here's a clip I just dragged and dropped from the SD card directly into YouTube. Lumix GH4 and Sigma 30mm f/1.4 DC DN for MFT. It was shot with sharpening and contrast turned way down (-4). The test I posted earlier, most of the shots were around f/5 or so. This one was at f/2.8.

 

It looks nice. The subject may have helped though. 

[Samin]

@jonpais It looks really nice! I have to put in my buying list! though I don't which one should get first, this sigma or pana 42,5 f1.7! 

[Cinegain]

Quite a bit of difference in focal length. The 42.5mm is much more restrictive I'd say, but is great as a portrait lens for example. With 30mm you're in more of a general purpose area doing a bit of everything rather well. Both have a great look to 'em though, so I'd say mainly it's focal length you've got to think about. Don't actually know about the Sigma, but the Panasonic 42.5mm isn't too terrible to use for close up shots (macro) either. Plus, before we had OIS primes restricted to Leica, now there's Lumix ones, with OIS, including the 42.5mm, so that's a real blessing. If you have a 25mm already, maybe you can skip the 30mm for now and go for the 42.5mm. If you already have a 50mm, then maybe get the 30mm. All depends what you can use the most and lends itself for your kind of shooting.

[Samin]

1 hour ago, Cinegain said:

Quite a bit of difference in focal length. The 42.5mm is much more restrictive I'd say, but is great as a portrait lens for example. With 30mm you're in more of a general purpose area doing a bit of everything rather well. Both have a great look to 'em though, so I'd say mainly it's focal length you've got to think about. Don't actually know about the Sigma, but the Panasonic 42.5mm isn't too terrible to use for close up shots (macro) either. Plus, before we had OIS primes restricted to Leica, now there's Lumix ones, with OIS, including the 42.5mm, so that's a real blessing. If you have a 25mm already, maybe you can skip the 30mm for now and go for the 42.5mm. If you already have a 50mm, then maybe get the 30mm. All depends what you can use the most and lends itself for your kind of shooting.

Yes I do have the 25mm f1.7, thanks for the answer. as I don't have any lens in 40~50mm range I think also its logical to first go for 42,5mm. the 30mm one just have really good price and its quite fast lens, thats makes it tempting.

[jonpais]

Here's another clip for comparison, shot with the Panasonic Lumix G Leica DG Nocticron 42.5mm f/1.2 at f/2.8 along with a Hoya NDX8 filter, again with contrast and sharpening in camera (Lumix GH4) dialed down to -4. I simply dragged and dropped the file from the SD card to YouTube. In all fairness, in the clip taken with the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 I posted previously, I believe focus was on the dress, not the subject's face, and I was using a gimbal. For this clip, I used the iFootage Wild Bull T7 carbon fiber tripod, and shot from (almost) head-on. My first impression of the PanLeica is that it's fucking incredible. Build quality is excellent, AF is fast and spot-on. It's also blisteringly sharp. I said before (or did I, can't really recall!) that I'd never pay $1,600 for a PanLeica lens, and if the manager of a local shop here hadn't offered to sell it to me for $1,050, I would never have purchased this lens. Now, I have a favor to ask of Michael Ma - can you share any footage of people shot with your $1,300 Summilux 12mm f/1.4?  i just learned that Donald Trump won the election - WTF???