Sony FX30 (S35 FX3)

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, Django said:

Reality TV? hardly the benchmark for quality..

Still better than 95% of amateur content. 

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, kye said:

The GH5 AF is spectacular at focusing, it's crap at choosing which thing to focus on.  That's the broader challenge...  People talk about Eye-AF, but notice that they test AF with only one person in frame?  There's a reason for that, and it's not that camera reviewers on YT don't have any friends 🙂 

They have no friends.... that's the REAL CONSPIRACY they're hiding from us! 😉

  

3 hours ago, kye said:

Besides, EOSHD seems to be a rare sanctuary of people who know things.  Most other groups only seem to talk about shallow-DOF, LUTs, and how to get your camera and the Sigma 18-35 to balance on your gimbal, and never get beyond that.

Yup, EOSHD is a rare place where I feel we have productive educational discussions (even if we have different perspectives... but that's a good thing! Not a bad thing) Not many places are better than EOSHD.

Over on Reddit for instance there are waaaay too many newbies or otherwise just don't have a clue but pretend they do. 

Take this thread for instance, just made today, literally asking where on reddit is "better":

 

[kye]

37 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Still better than 95% of amateur content. 

I wonder how much of that is simply editing.

Reality TV normally focuses on dramatic situations, often deliberately making them more dramatic, and then edits out all the dross, once again often making them more dramatic that it really was.

Good amateur content is good because it's well edited.  In terms of good amateur narrative, writing is the best form of editing, and in terms of good amateur YT content, the best editing is working out what you want to say before hitting the record button.

When people ask me how to edit the video clips they've recorded of family and friends, the first thing I tell them is "Film as much as you can, then just chop out the boring bits!".  I normally follow that up by saying "and most of it will be boring so keep chopping things out until it's really exciting".

I was once told that a good edit will feel a little too fast.  That will feel about right for people watching.

27 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

They have no friends.... that's the REAL CONSPIRACY they're hiding from us! 😉

Thus, lots of cat footage?

27 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Over on Reddit for instance there are waaaay too many newbies or otherwise just don't have a clue but pretend they do. 

It's the same everywhere.  Another example is that the Davinci Resolve FB group got so clogged with newbies asking the same questions about cinematic film emulation LUTs etc that they created a private group for advanced users.  Now I'm in it I can't see the questions you had to answer to get in but I remember they were rather pointed lol.  In this case the group might be a little too advanced, there's not many questions, but when they are they are often so technical and obscure that no-one knows how to help.  Resolve reminds me of photoshop and how you can basically never learn everything about it.

Of course, newbies aren't all bad.  In the GH5 / Panasonic groups I'm in, there are people who are so new that they talk about all these irrelevant things like lighting and writing and editing!  How little they know!

[IronFilm]

21 hours ago, kye said:

When people ask me how to edit the video clips they've recorded of family and friends, the first thing I tell them is "Film as much as you can, then just chop out the boring bits!".  I normally follow that up by saying "and most of it will be boring so keep chopping things out until it's really exciting".

...then keep on cutting! Until you feel like you've gone too far. Then it is ready. 

[A_Urquhart]

Got my FX30 a few days ago and time to buy some more CFExpress Type A cards.....

Reminds me how much I hate that Sony went for Type A over Type B. Paying more than double for a card that is half the speed of type B. For the same price of one 160GB type A card I can get a 512Gb Type B card which is rated at double the speed. Sure, they're smaller but I would happily have gone a slightly bigger body to accomodate.

Why Sony.....just why??

[PannySVHS]

Except from AF and 120p 4k, the Lumix S5 seems a much better deal.

Half the price, equal if not better image quality, Full Frame with optional Super 35 mode. EVF. Rolling shutter is the same between the two with S5 in S35 mode.

But somehow I find the FX30 appealing. It' design is cool looking. So hdmi is full hdmi? The S5 would have been a no brainer for my needs if it had full Hdmi.

[A_Urquhart]

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

Except from AF and 120p 4k, the Lumix S5 seems a much better deal.

Half the price, equal if not better image quality, Full Frame with optional Super 35 mode. EVF. Rolling shutter is the same between the two with S5 in S35 mode.

But somehow I find the FX30 appealing. It' design is cool looking. So hdmi is full hdmi? The S5 would have been a no brainer for my needs if it had full Hdmi.

Despite me complaining about the choice of CFExpress type A, the small body of the FX30 is a bit of a revelation to me. It's small in all the right dimensions except thickness which makes it far more comfortable to hold than any other mirrorless camera I have used from Sony or Fuji to date. 

After owning both the Pocket4k and 6K pro, there was no way I was going back to a camera with mini or micro HDMI. 

I don't like the Flip out screen...hated it on the GH3 I had years ago and still hate it. Give me a screen that just tilts up and down. 

I'm using a Metabones Speedbooster on mine at the moment for Full Frame. That makes the 4k 120p crop around APC-C. 

Most of my clients want Sony these days so the FX30 made perfect sense as a B or C Camera to the FX6 and FX9. I never would have made my money back on a Panasonic camera despite specs.

 I also wanted a camera that could shoot high quality APS-C for using most cine lenses which the FX30 excels at. As above, add Speedbooster and I have a Full frame camera which with the Leica R cine modded lenses, is absolutely tiny even with Speedbooster. Best of both worlds really and Sony has a much better range of available lenses and third part accessories. 

Despite the still awful menu's, I think I'll like this camera!

 

[A_Urquhart]

5 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

Despite me complaining about the choice of CFExpress type A, the small body of the FX30 is a bit of a revelation to me. It's small in all the right dimensions except thickness which makes it far more comfortable to hold than any other mirrorless camera I have used from Sony or Fuji to date. 

After owning both the Pocket4k and 6K pro, there was no way I was going back to a camera with mini or micro HDMI. 

I don't like the Flip out screen...hated it on the GH3 I had years ago and still hate it. Give me a screen that just tilts up and down. 

I'm using a Metabones Speedbooster on mine at the moment for Full Frame. That makes the 4k 120p crop around APC-C. 

Most of my clients want Sony these days so the FX30 made perfect sense as a B or C Camera to the FX6 and FX9. I never would have made my money back on a Panasonic camera despite specs.

 I also wanted a camera that could shoot high quality APS-C for using most cine lenses which the FX30 excels at. As above, add Speedbooster and I have a Full frame camera which with the Leica R cine modded lenses, is absolutely tiny even with Speedbooster. Best of both worlds really and Sony has a much better range of available lenses and third part accessories. 

Despite the still awful menu's, I think I'll like this camera!

 

In addition......The ability to zoom in 1.5 times in 4K or 2x in HD with no apparent loss in quality due to the oversampled sensor is an interesting feature. Just playing at this stage so haven't tested if it is actually lossless but zooming on primes is novel! 

[A_Urquhart]

Apologies in advance if this info is already known but just discovered you can have the image on the flip out screen with all the status info on while outputting a clean feed to a monitor via HDMI AND output an extremely low latency image with full camera control and touch focus control to a phone all at the same time. My guess is that the latency on the Wifi image is less than a frame!

Could open up some possibilities!

I often have to rig cameras on/in cars so this could come in handy!

[PannySVHS]

On the S5 I can user cheap adapters for vintage lenses in Full Frame. With the FX30 one would need to buy  focal reducers like speedbooster, which cost 3 to 5 five times as much, also no focal reducers for Konica afaik. You can use ur ultra high quality Super35 cinema glass , which the S5 excels like other great cameras.

But micro hdmi for my use of work is a no go unfortunately.

But the FX30 is a no go too as a hybrid due to lack of evf and mechanical shutter.

So I would still rather buy two Full Frame S5 cameras with its special Super35 mode instead of one S35 Fx30 camera.

[A_Urquhart]

8 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

On the S5 I can user cheap adapters for vintage lenses in Full Frame. With the FX30 one would need to buy  focal reducers like speedbooster, which cost 3 to 5 five times as much, also no focal reducers for Konica afaik. You can use ur ultra high quality Super35 cinema glass , which the S5 excels like other great cameras.

But micro hdmi for my use of work is a no go unfortunately.

But the FX30 is a no go too as a hybrid due to lack of evf and mechanical shutter.

So I would still rather buy two Full Frame S5 cameras with its special Super35 mode instead of one S35 Fx30 camera.

Yeah fair enough. I already had a Speedbooster and using it, I get 4k 50/60p FF (no crop) which the S5 can't do. 

 

When it comes to lenses, apart from cine lenses, I was more referring to electronic lenses which support Sony's AF. Plenty of good aftermarket lenses coming out for E Mount. 

The FX30 is not a hybrid so yeah, get the S5 if you want more photo functions. 

For what it is, the FX30 is extremely well priced though IMO. I got $450 AUD off RRP (with Audio Grip) with my supplier making it even more attractive. That's only $500 more than an S5 body here and the S5 doesn't have XLR

[A_Urquhart]

After playing with it for a few hours.....I don't think the FX30 should really be compared to hybrid cameras as that's not it's focus. It's a video camera (or 'cinema camera' as they seem to be called these days!). I think it's closest competition is the Pocket 6k or Canon C70. 

It's much more like a video camera to use, which to me is a good thing. Has proper Audio and timecode capabilities, not likely to overheat as it has a fan, supports 4 channel 24bit audio recording, doesn't have the 30min record limit many other cameras have when shooting 10bit codecs etc etc.

These conveniences when used in a professional environment are invaluable and well worth the asking price. Sure, If you have no need for them then they are kinda pointless but this is why you shouldn't compare this to many hybrid cameras. 

[kye]

7 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

In addition......The ability to zoom in 1.5 times in 4K or 2x in HD with no apparent loss in quality due to the oversampled sensor is an interesting feature. Just playing at this stage so haven't tested if it is actually lossless but zooming on primes is novel! 

This is how I operate my GH5 - using MF primes and getting extra reach using the 2x digital zoom which recording 1080p on the GH5 is still oversampled from 2.5K.  The only issue with such a setup is if your lenses are sharp enough!

Hardly anyone seems to shoot this way as it's basically never talked about, which means that this feature set isn't that common - even the GH6 doesn't have it.  It's a big deal for me because I've literally designed my lens set around this feature.

4 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

After playing with it for a few hours.....I don't think the FX30 should really be compared to hybrid cameras as that's not it's focus. It's a video camera (or 'cinema camera' as they seem to be called these days!). I think it's closest competition is the Pocket 6k or Canon C70. 

It's much more like a video camera to use, which to me is a good thing. Has proper Audio and timecode capabilities, not likely to overheat as it has a fan, supports 4 channel 24bit audio recording, doesn't have the 30min record limit many other cameras have when shooting 10bit codecs etc etc.

These conveniences when used in a professional environment are invaluable and well worth the asking price. Sure, If you have no need for them then they are kinda pointless but this is why you shouldn't compare this to many hybrid cameras. 

I agree that it should be compared to video/cinema cameras, not hybrids, although these days there's a spectrum on the video-side of cameras between completely manual cinema cameras and completely automatic video cameras, with many cameras sitting somewhere in-between, so a lot of cameras have video features that are hybrids of cinema and video cameras.  This spectrum isn't something that most people are really that aware of, and people just seem to look at the video functions of cameras as a random soup of potential features that have no overall structure or philosophy, which TBH couldn't be further from the truth.

[MrSMW]

7 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

I don't think the FX30 should really be compared to hybrid cameras as that's not it's focus.

If I had to put a label on it, it would neither be 'hybrid' nor 'cinema', but probably what it is; a MILVC.

S5 and probably any latest Fuji, kicks it's arse for stills.

It lacks the true 'cinema' spec that this type of camera would normally have.

Ultimately it's like any of these things and it either suits your needs, or doesn't.

I think for the price...and if it suits your needs, it's fanfuckingtastic.

I still hate the flip out screen and would prefer a tilt but for MY (special) NEEDS, it would otherwise be labelled 'perfect'.

I'm currently flipping back and forth whether a pair of the things would suit my needs better, or an FX30 as B cam paired with an FX3 as A...

[A_Urquhart]

11 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

If I had to put a label on it, it would neither be 'hybrid' nor 'cinema', but probably what it is; a MILVC.

Ha, that really rolls off the tongue....how do you pronounce MILVC? 😉

[A_Urquhart]

Two frame delay between FX30 screen and WiFi to iPhone 11.

Useful when rigging camera in hard to reach places. App gives live image (as you can see) and full control of pretty much all camera setting.

[Fairkid]

Thanks for the info. I have just bought an FX30 so it’s really helpful. Is that the Portkeys monitor that allows touch tracking?

[MrSMW]

59 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

Ha, that really rolls off the tongue....how do you pronounce MILVC? 😉

I reckon maybe “mill vee cee”?

[kye]

1 hour ago, A_Urquhart said:

Ha, that really rolls off the tongue....how do you pronounce MILVC? 😉

Or mil-vuc

Or mil-vac

Or M-ilv-K

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

If I had to put a label on it, it would neither be 'hybrid' nor 'cinema', but probably what it is; a MILVC.

In terms of the label, it doesn't help at all.  Every camera from an Alexa LF to the OG BMPCC to a Sony VG900 Handycam is a MILVC.

[A_Urquhart]

46 minutes ago, Fairkid said:

Thanks for the info. I have just bought an FX30 so it’s really helpful. Is that the Portkeys monitor that allows touch tracking?

It is, although I haven't connected it to the camera via bluetooth for control yet.