Rudolf Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 maybe you'd like to check this out: http://savefilm.org I now this is a forum for digital cameras but maybe here are some filmshooters as well...? However I apologize if you consider this as spam and if not thank you very much! I love film :) nvldk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgharding Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 I love the look of film, sadly I've never been able to make a production with it. I've put countless hours into digital production and post processes, just to try and emulate the look and feel, because I love it's non-linearity, spirit and heart. I do shoot still photographic film though and love it. One hopes that somehow, film motion picture will have a resurrection outside of Hollywood, and become more convenient to use somehow, by way of new technologies... odie and Rudolf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odie Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 I love the look of film, sadly I've never been able to make a production with it. I've put countless hours into digital production and post processes, just to try and emulate the look and feel, because I love it's non-linearity, spirit and heart. I do shoot still photographic film though and love it. One hopes that somehow, film motion picture will have a resurrection outside of Hollywood, and become more convenient to use somehow, by way of new technologies... +1 i use film a lot for it's beauty and timelessness ( and no worries with deliverables.. the client is always thrilled with the look!) i think it's important to keep film and digital both evolving and competitive… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 If film dies portra 400 dies :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgharding Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I'm quite determined to shoot something on 16mm this year, directing not operating. I will make it happen! I love a bit of gritty 16mm Rudolf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgharding Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Here's a test where film gives a kicking to Alexa and Red, certainly in the dynamic range tests for the scene in fornt of the projection The Red especially get beaten down http://www.cinematography.net/valvula.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 What if one of the big companies come up with a new trend, making low-budget film cameras with the newest technology avialable now. That of course with low-cost film stocks and low cost and efficient way of processing. Something like a little Blackmagic/C100 with a film tray. That would be an easy product to market! "Want the filmlook? Shoot on a filmcamera. Introducing the new xxx" I can see this as a future (initially hipster) trend! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvldk Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 What if one of the big companies come up with a new trend, making low-budget film cameras with the newest technology avialable now. That of course with low-cost film stocks and low cost and efficient way of processing. Something like a little Blackmagic/C100 with a film tray. That would be an easy product to market! "Want the filmlook? Shoot on a filmcamera. Introducing the new xxx" I can see this as a future (initially hipster) trend! :D Ahh, what a brilliant idea! Like what Lomo made for photography. Can anyone explain me why filmstock is so expensive? And is there any way how to produce it cheaply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgharding Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 You need to produce chemicals. Lots of chemicals! And they're incredibly environmentally unfriendly. Here's a report on some horrible health problems suffered by those around the very big old Kodak factory: http://www.alternet.org/story/16030/kodak's_toxic_moments Of course, toxic chemicals are also used to produce modern technology, but under looser regulation in the far east. A modern giant factory in the far east could not easily be repurposed to produce film stock. It's now a niche market and it's dangerous and hard to make, and the profits are smaller than making mass electronics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahlfors Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Here's a test where film gives a kicking to Alexa and Red, certainly in the dynamic range tests for the scene in fornt of the projection The Red especially get beaten down http://www.cinematography.net/valvula.html I was never really happy qualitywise with the way digital cameras produced still images compared to film just 5-6 years ago - although I very much preferred the digital workflow. With the Nikon D800 I found that I didn't miss anything from the film shooting days anymore, highlights rolled off nicely, there was detail in shadows, colors were lovely. When it comes to motion, I think we'll very soon be at a situation where successors to cameras like GH4 gives most of the latitude and color reproduction that film could do - not only the highend cameras. I guess it'll take max 5 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvldk Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 You need to produce chemicals. Lots of chemicals! And they're incredibly environmentally unfriendly. Here's a report on some horrible health problems suffered by those around the very big old Kodak factory: http://www.alternet.org/story/16030/kodak's_toxic_moments Of course, toxic chemicals are also used to produce modern technology, but under looser regulation in the far east. A modern giant factory in the far east could not easily be repurposed to produce film stock. It's now a niche market and it's dangerous and hard to make, and the profits are smaller than making mass electronics. Ok, I know tons of enviromentally unfriendly chemicals are needed, but...There is such a long tradition in producing filmstock around the globe. Even small state like Czech has its filmstock company (ok, they produce only BW material, but still!) I admit the market is small, but that doesn't mean you cant make a hype - like Lomography. Yes, we have Lightroom and Premiere with all the plugins simulating filmstock, but, I still feel that digital photos/footage miss something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 When it comes to motion, I think we'll very soon be at a situation where successors to cameras like GH4 gives most of the latitude and color reproduction that film could do - not only the highend cameras. I guess it'll take max 5 years... That's a viable argument too. In fact, I believe that in a few years, digital sensors will far exceed film in terms of image quality. Actually, I do think that they have exceeded film already. I know film, and know digital. And from my eyes, I can see that a new 1K USD digital pocket BM gives higher quality images than any super 16 film I shot. plus these cameras record these images to a magical little device smaller than a matchbox, that can store hours of footage, slot inside an editing machine, transfer the files, and be erased to use again in the camera for an infinite no. of times! I mean we have huge monitors and EVFs we can look through the film's eye, a light meter, we can change the film sensetivity with a button from 100 to 400,000 ASA, we can shoot clean images lit by a candlelight, and we can record audio! It's a bit easy to forget how far we've come in terms of shooting power, and it's easier to forget how tiring the old days were. Losing all that and getting stuck with old, tiring film shooting, just to get a minor characterestic film supposedly has, is a bit debatable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I was never really happy qualitywise with the way digital cameras produced still images compared to film just 5-6 years ago - although I very much preferred the digital workflow. With the Nikon D800 I found that I didn't miss anything from the film shooting days anymore, highlights rolled off nicely, there was detail in shadows, colors were lovely. Well, I thought the same until I bought medium format film cameras and besides being medium format, the colors on film just seem to be "better", there seems to be more detail in color. I don't know exactly how to put this. But then, the same happens when you compare a d800 to Phase One digital backs so it's not necesarily digital itself but "color science". I just hope they don't stop doing the beautiful c41 films. Oh and pushing portra 400 is a great experience. Long exposures also look great, a lot better, if you don't have light leaks :S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 Probably digital is already superior to film quality wise but... there is so much more about film: Well stored film lasts for your whole lifetime and can ever be reproduced (also with a device built of LEGO :) ) Shooting film is totally different as you have to think twice. David Lynch pointed out that actors seem to work more determined/concentratde when shot on film For my latest Super-8 project I shot 10minutes of footage which cost me more than €250,- So this is something worthy and that makes it special. When I capture video it is always too much. I am tired of watching hours of rubbish. For some reason film is more artistic for me. I also like to cut with scissors and project film (just watched a great documentary from 1971 - even my 18 year old son was impressed). The most important thing is maybe that my brain is analogue and analogue is more pleasing to me. I also prefer records instead of CDs :) Regarding the above mentioned new camera - There is such thing: It is called "Logmar" and produces stunning images with Super-8. This looks absolutely like 16mm when you choose some of the new negative stock. And there is no (NO!) flicker at all :o But sometimes I also like digital and it is fine for me but at least I have to use some less sharp lenses and some anamorphic glass to reduce the cold clinical sharpness. Just a matter of taste :) nvldk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvldk Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Losing all that and getting stuck with old, tiring film shooting, just to get a minor characterestic film supposedly has, is a bit debatable! Well, I found that shooting digital is tiring for me. And that characteristic isn't minor but major to me! I admit, that for example BMPCC is great. The RAW image looks great. But it's way to clinical! Sterile. Yes, its matter of tase, and I love the filmistock imperfection. Thats something digital will never have! It's too good. And it's funny how many videos around try to fake the imperfection and film look. Rudolf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 Filmshooting is somehow an art of is own. There is much you can do with film, you can't with digital because you cannot manipulate it. You cannot touch it! Maybe film is a bit more like painting instead of taking a digital picture...?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcs Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 We'll have the film look from digital cameras once someone spends the time to fully simulate what film does with light. ARRI is already pretty close, as they developed a camera system after many years of experience with film scanners. We'll go way beyond film with real-time HDR + tone-mapping in-camera. Any film stock will be available as a preset, with full control of grain simulations and artful defects/aberrations as well. We're pretty close to film DR with the Alexa, and perhaps have matched it with the Red Dragon. All that's left is the color, grain, and aberration simulation. It may take a while, but it will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvldk Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 We'll have the film look from digital cameras once someone spends the time to fully simulate what film does with light. ARRI is already pretty close, as they developed a camera system after many years of experience with film scanners. We'll go way beyond film with real-time HDR + tone-mapping in-camera. Any film stock will be available as a preset, with full control of grain simulations and artful defects/aberrations as well. We're pretty close to film DR with the Alexa, and perhaps have matched it with the Red Dragon. All that's left is the color, grain, and aberration simulation. It may take a while, but it will happen. Yes, similations. That's it. It's never gonna be the same. And why to simulate it? why to copy? Why digital image don't walk in its own way? On one hand we want filmlook but on the other we dont want to shoot film :). I know it's cheaper and everything, but if all of us (who want filmlook) woud shoot film wouldnt be the film stock cheaper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Well I guess if we can get the film-look in a digital cemera, it would be the best of both worlds. And film would officially have no single advantage over digital. It will happen. A digital camera (with all the benefits of digital minus the disadvantages of film) that simulates the film look and gives an identical image. That will happen soon. It's already very close with the Alexa. I imagine the next Arri will be that camera easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 First you have to have a camera without bayer filter array. You could have 32 stops DR and the colors still were fake thanks to the bayer filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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