Comparison between the "Venerable Master" and the GH4

[Michael Thames]

What's the point of such forum if you can't criticize a camera.... who knows after all this discussion I might end up buying a GH4, and download Andrew Ried's Shooter guide. 

[Michael Thames]

Might've been funny if I'd ever used a blue mask in my life, but I grade all my footage manually.

 

I put a link to my work in my signature so that people know who I am, what I do and what level I'm at. It helps keep things real for me. Most people respect that. If Michael doesn't like my work that's fine, but I don't see him throwing his films around. Just his ego.

 

Every now and then someone with their head up their own backside comes on this forum, embarrasses themselves until they get bored then disappears for good. This guy is one of them. If he'd taken the time to read through Andrews recent articles and skim the forum threads, he'd have  been able to answer his own questions and not have so many people call him up on his arrogance ...

 

I sorry you had to defend yourself, I didn't mean for you to work so hard!  I see so many rather pointless videos on Vimeo of cameras on sliders with guys playing with the follow focus etc. and I wonder what's the point?  To show off their new camera? Perhaps a calling card to potential clients?  

 

 Just got Final Cut X with all those lovely video effects...... I know just how tempting it can be to double click to load the effect..... but I can't bring myself to do it. 

 

There was an interesting video I saw on youtube of a guy who saved a whale caught in fishing net, filmed on a cheap camcorder by his girlfriend. I find these type videos infinitely more interesting than 3 minutes of blue colored waves, or flowers going in and out of focus. As they say content is KING!  I guess my interests lay more around content than technique at this point in my life, perhaps it will change and I am trying to learn about video as much as I can, that's why I joined the GH4OS forum here, i try to remain open minded.

 

Between Crackpot (you) and Buzzkill (Andrew) constantly crashing my threads and causing them to close..... looks like eventually I will have to seek knowledge elsewhere soon.  There are soooooo many video forums these days. 

 

I don't make my living doing video, and my identity is quite solid and grounded in my artistic accomplishments out side of the video world that when you start nipping at my heels, I just laugh and say........ if you only knew.  

 

After shooting a video of Bach live yesterday and having to deal with studio quality audio as well as the video, which perhaps comes second nature to such an accomplished videographer as yourself, I find to be quite challenging and difficult...... I say to myself damn, why do I get myself involved in these projects, when I could be out on the beach filming waves, and flowers going in and out of focus.  

 

 I shall post my video here (if I'm still around) for you to judge and tear apart at your pleasure. 

 

The topic of art came up in my conversation with someone with whom I consider a great accomplished artist (picked by Segovia himself as one of the greatest living classical guitarists alive today), over the topic of video, or I should say film.  I said, I don't consider video as art, in the way of other art forms there is a minimal amount of technique involved, and the more money you have the greater your accomplishments are in the realm of film, during our conversation he somewhat set me straight and I came away thinking film is art, or lets say can be art, and I was thankful for that. 

[Guest d5f8611fa423d0e628c016f9d5c93b47]

Yawn. OAO.

[jurgen]

I don't make my living doing video, and my identity is quite solid and grounded in my artistic accomplishments out side of the video world that when you start nipping at my heels, I just laugh and say........ if you only knew.  

lol ... really dude?

[Michael Thames]

 

 

Every now and then someone with their head up their own backside comes on this forum, embarrasses themselves until they get bored then disappears for good. This guy is one of them. If he'd taken the time to read through Andrews recent articles and skim the forum threads, he'd have  been able to answer his own questions and not have so many people call him up on his arrogance ...

 

Spec sheets are boring to me, and I have to admit I don't like reading manuals.  I find I learn much more by apprenticing myself to a master, or to someone whom I look up to and respect.  In this way I seek knowledge about my particular craft.  

 

I am in the market for an additional camera because I'm tired of shooting live music on one camera and trying to make it look like it was shot with three cameras, there is a constant and annoying problem of sinking the audio and video with moving fingers, I don't do Milli-Vanilli.  I have learned a lot here, when I am not busy responding to you and Andrew's insults.  So instead of spread sheets filled with specs I look for actual hands on videos both pro and con.

 

It took me months before I pressed the buy it now button for my 5D3, I researched Sliders for weeks before I bought the "Shark Slider" as for audio equipment yes, again I research preamps, mics, audio software etc. 

 

You can call me a Troll, but I'm really not.  You and Andrew are the trolls.

 

In seriously considering the GH4 as a second camera, I have valid concerns over the digitized video look the over sharp image creates, in my research I was amazed to find many other "professionals" raised this issue as well,  But here if you address this, you get your thread locked and numerous insults thrown at you.  

 

I guess GH4 owners are a little overly sensitive about this so they have a knee-jerk response. 

[Somnang]

If you're looking for a camera to compliment the 5D3 raw, I really like the Blackmagic 4k camera. I have both and have been mixing both footages together. They play nicely together

[Michael Thames]

If you're looking for a camera to compliment the 5D3 raw, I really like the Blackmagic 4k camera. I have both and have been mixing both footages together. They play nicely together

 

Thanks Somnag, I forgot about that one!  I came very close to buying the 2.5k instead of my 5D3, back in October.  Today I have something to do, I'll watch some footage of these.  If memory serves, I liked the image of the blackmagic.  I'm glad I waited because the 2.5K it seems had a lot of problems

[Michael Thames]

I accidentally it post before I finished.  I meant to say it doesn't have a lot of problems, but some work arounds 

[Somnang]

the 2.5k was actually my first choice -- but the moire and aliasing killed it for me. 

[Andrew Reid]

GH4 is as sharp as you want it or as soft as you want it.

 

It is however, more detailed than 1080p, because it's 4K. This is not hard to figure out is it!?

 

 

Download the above 1080p file Michael and take a look at the resolution from both cameras.

 

5D3 actually has a little bit more aliasing on high contrast edges.

 

Sharpness between the two is identical. The GH4 does not look 'over-sharpened' and those sloping edges are actually softer on the GH4 (top) to 5D3 (bottom, more jagged).

 

 

Facts are facts.

 

Personally I find a use for both. Prefer 5D3 for raw 1080p, GH4 for 4K video. Not better. They're different.

 

A7S I am very much looking forward to, for low light.

 

Each has a use!

 

So back on topic Michael...

[jgharding]

I think Andrew nailed it in that they're both good at different things. I've been looking at BMPCC and GH4 as second cameras. hey're so different it's really hard to choose...

 

I'd say if you don't like syncing or fiddling about get a camcorder of some kind! You could sell the 5Diii and put that GH4 money towards an FS100 or a C100, both produce a good image. That wouldn't solve your multicam woes though... Perhaps a Sony RX10 is worth consideration?

 

***

 

Nice guitars Michael! I'm not classical player myself but I can certainly appreciate what goes into building such an instrument well.  I've been learning some fingerstyle too.

 

I also lead a double life! Here's me playing and singing in my two piece band. Well, more having a fight with the guitar than playing. Quite a different style... ;)

 

http://soundslikebro.bandcamp.com/track/less-than-three

 

***

[Michael Thames]

I think Andrew nailed it in that they're both good at different things. I've been looking at BMPCC and GH4 as second cameras. hey're so different it's really hard to choose...

 

I'd say if you don't like syncing or fiddling about get a camcorder of some kind! You could sell the 5Diii and put that GH4 money towards an FS100 or a C100, both produce a good image. That wouldn't solve your multicam woes though... Perhaps a Sony RX10 is worth consideration?

 

***

 

Nice guitars Michael! I'm not classical player myself but I can certainly appreciate what goes into building such an instrument well.  I've been learning some fingerstyle too.

 

I also lead a double life! Here's me playing and singing in my two piece band. Well, more having a fight with the guitar than playing. Quite a different style... ;)

 

http://soundslikebro.bandcamp.com/track/less-than-three

 

***

 

Thanks for the kind words!  I really liked your song!  You have a world class rock voice, and the song was an earworm, well crafted!  Two piece band just guitar and drums whoa, sounds edgy in a refreshing way.  Any music videos? 

 

I played drums since the 5th grade...... even though I play guitar, I liked playing drums in rock bands, you don't have to think about all those complicated chord changes..... ha ha!..... but I digress.

 

I love a good rock song, all my friends (clients) are either classical, flamenco, or jazz guys..... and I dislike jazz the most, jazz is just rock and roll with the notes all wrong. One good friend who is a classical turned, Jazzer, turned Ukelele, got sponsored by a ukelele manufacture in China and is now touring the world with his wife playing flamenco uke.  

 

Good luck with your other career, sounds like you are well on the way!  Both lives seem to complement each other well. As the saying goes, if you want the job done right, do it yourself.

 

The first video camera I bought simply to film me playing a 13 string guitar I invented.  During those years I knew only how to turn on a computer, and could surf the web.  My wife was the computer wiz.  Got the camera filmed something, plugged it into the little "Gateway" computer and nothing happened, it froze up!  My wife tried to help but knew nothing of this realm.  I told her I thought something was wrong with the camera, so I went down and bought a Canon XH-A1 at our local camera shop, ONLY because I noticed it had XLR inputs. Later I broke the news to her I needed a new Mac to run the camera....... she wouldn't speak to me for days!

 

I will Always keep the 5D3 because I like photography as well, and it's a good all around camera for video and photography.  I had two Canon HV-30's and the A1 with a Letus DOF adopter...... talk about a low light nightmare!   Last year I sold the A1 for next to nothing, because I couldn't deal with tapes any more..... skipped frames, dirty heads etc. 

 

If only these guitarists would do the Milli-Vanilli it would make filming them so much more creative, but so far It's all been live with a 100 takes. , and the editing nightmare begins!  Syncing up the right audio with each take.  Thanks God for Pluraleyes!  

 

I feel slightly embarrassed after all this I may very well get the GH4!  DOF aint everything I guess!

[Guest d5f8611fa423d0e628c016f9d5c93b47]

Michael - you mentioned you had FCPX earlier. You don't need Pluraleyes with FCPX you can synch within the program.  ;)

[Michael Thames]

I saw that, but does it work for an hour and a half long video with 20 different takes?  I haven't tried it yet.

 

 I got FCPX a week and a half ago and so far love it although I can't seem to find the sharpening filter,  looks like it's in Motion, any suggestions?  As we all know the 5D3 needs some help in this dept.  I used to sharpen with the custom settings in Compressor 3, looks like I don't need Compressor with the sharing options in FCPX..... or do I?  I'm coming from FCP6.

[Michael Thames]

Uploading my first video from FCPX to Vimeo seems much, much better than Compressor 3.  I had some real bad problems with, I don't know the correct terminology, it's like a pulsating pixelated squares running through the top of the screen of the video.  I don't see any of this problem after uploading to Vimeo using the Vimeo share option in FCPX. 

[Ben Prater]

 

 

I guess I could get the GH4 and if I don't merge with it spiritually, I can always sell it.  

 

I am going to steal this line!  :wub:

[rndmtsk]

In seriously considering the GH4 as a second camera, I have valid concerns over the digitized video look the over sharp image creates, in my research I was amazed to find many other "professionals" raised this issue as well,  But here if you address this, you get your thread locked and numerous insults thrown at you.  

 

I guess GH4 owners are a little overly sensitive about this so they have a knee-jerk response. 

 

 

I feel slightly embarrassed after all this I may very well get the GH4!  DOF aint everything I guess!

 

I think GH4 owners have a knee-jerk reaction to claims that the camera has an inferior or undesirable image quality simple because it is sharp and detailed with a ton of resolution. I think the reaction is to highlight the fact that this gives more potential, rather than less, and ultimately the final image is in how the footage is handled, for pretty much any camera. I hear what you're saying about wanting to avoid a "video-y" look, but it bothers me even more when I see something that's completely flat, desaturated, and dead, and someone's trying to pass it off as "filmic". Grading will always be key...

 

That said, maybe the GH4 just isn't for you. If you care more about low-light and shallow DOF than 4k, why not just get an A7s? Doesn't seem like your work would suffer greatly from bad rolling shutter, should the A7s happen to be lacking in that capacity. Not to mention all your Canon glass will adapt nicely with all automated features... Not that that isn't in the near future for the GH4...

[Andrew Reid]

I definitely have a knee-jerk reaction to bullshit when I read it!

 

I thought the girls loved your 5D Mark III Michael, why the sudden change of heart? Are you trying to impress a Micro Four Thirds lady?