Administrators Andrew Reid Posted October 9, 2022 Administrators Share Posted October 9, 2022 Got the bang for buck 8K camera. Only had it for 5 minutes and noticed it has a stuck pixel on the LCD so better get it switched. Quite distracting. Seems on paper to be one of the most exciting cameras at or under $2k. (£1899 in UK) First before I get too far into praising this bargain cinematic beast, here's a few things that the usual suspects in the review / shill kingdom didn't tell you... Handling has some distinct steps back from my beloved X-H1. There is no more drive mode lever, but unforgivably no movies/stills switch either like X-T4! A very strange omission given the hybrid nature of this model. I can however assign custom stills mode to function button and tap in/out from movie mode without having to change mode dial through all the many steps from Movies to PASM. The finger gymnastics to reach the WB and custom buttons on top panel is ridiculous. Really bad placement. The overall styling isn't as nice as X-H1. It looks and feels cheaper as if some cost cutting has taken place. For sure it is an uglier camera. No more inward press action of the jog dials, quite poor dial feel, just in general a slow hacking away of what made Fuji bodies nice like the extra dials and nice styling. But when we get down to the nitty gritty I expect to be more impressed. S35 8K ProRes for $2K is pretty special. I have read that IBIS is better on X-H2 vs X-H2S as well. Any idea why that might be? I can't quite believe reviews have that right. The Dancing Babamef, Martin Kuipers, FHDcrew and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Mine is also in da house though not had the chance to do anything but charge it. I also had a beloved XH1 which other than the OG X100, was my favourite of all the Fuji X cameras I used for 9 years from that OG up to and including the XT3. However, having had 2 years out from the Fuji system, I have a more limited memory recall of button placement and general ergos etc, so not really an issue for me as I will be kind of learning it all again from scratch really. The single biggest issue for me is the change from tilt to flip rear screen, but I will have to get over that. Second issue for me is L bracket or battery grip because despite not having the biggest of hands, it’s more a 3 fingered grip for me and I’d rather have 4. It’s early days for me also and so the next step is to test it for both stills and video as all my units need to be. Then if all of that goes to plan as expected, it’s going to be a case of 2x XH2 plus a single XH2S, or the other way round. Leaning more towards the former and then the next Q is primes or zooms or both… I think the answer to that one is both with a primarily zoom based approach but a single or pair of primes for gimbal and lower light work. Initially though, the Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 is my sole lens and probably going to be paired with the XH2S as my primary in hand video unit. The better XH2 IBIS? Software maybe so the XH2S may receive a firmware update. Unless it’s sensor related (unlikely?) or even just subjective… Anyway interested to see how it develops with you Andrew and I’m going to be a bit slow in this regard myself with a lot of work and personal stuff going in myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted October 10, 2022 Author Administrators Share Posted October 10, 2022 X-H2 IBIS seems very good so far. Wonder if the X-H2S has a heavier heat sink wrapped sensor, since it's the very fast stacked CMOS in that model, and therefore less nimble or less room to move. Bitrates in 8K ProRes are insane. Don't think I'll be using that mode much. 1600Mbit in LT and 3200Mbit in HQ. Makes the 1D C MJPEG look positively tiny. In 6.2K it is 1000Mbit in LT In 4K ProRes LT we get down to 435Mbit in 24p... Still very big files. ProRes is one of the main selling points of this camera to me but the file sizes in LT are a surprise as I thought LT was around the 200-250Mbit mark. It does do ProRes Proxy but not tried this yet. Not sure if it is 4K or just 1080p proxy. You can't only record in ProRes Proxy, has to be done together with HQ, 422 or LT. However definitely does build nicely on top of X-T4 image quality and features, for not much extra money... X-Pro3 still feels much more premium and more enjoyable to use for stills and the odd video on a tripod. I am not sure all the glowing reviews for X-H2 are entirely justified but will dig deeper into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 26 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: Bitrates in 8K ProRes are insane. Don't think I'll be using that mode much. 1600Mbit in LT and 3200Mbit in HQ. Makes the 1D C MJPEG look positively tiny. This would be my main concern. Obviously it offers lower resolution downsamples, but they're limited and as you say, 435Mbps is still pretty hefty. I find it strange that the entire industry seems to have forgotten that peoples TVs don't scale with resolution, and that image quality is proportional to bitrate rather than resolution, but processing power does scale with resolution - regardless of bitrate. Does it offer 1080p Prores HQ? That's just under 200Mbps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted October 10, 2022 Author Administrators Share Posted October 10, 2022 Yes it does ProRes HQ 1080p The bitrates for ProRes are variable so maybe Fuji are stating the maximum values? This seems to imply an average bitrate of 328Mbit for UHD ProRes LT https://blog.frame.io/2017/02/13/compare-50-intermediate-codecs/ Whereas Fuji say 435Mbit https://fujifilm-x.com/en-us/products/cameras/x-h2/specifications/ Will be interesting to see how close ProRes brings Fuji to the look of a Blackmagic camera. As I always considered a really chunky ProRes codec the missing link between cine and mirrorless cameras. Also will be interesting to look at smaller H.265 file sizes in 8K and compare to the oversampled 4K ProRes. kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Any specific reason (other than price) why you picked XH2 over XH2S? Personally I'd rather go with XH2S's stacked sensor and benefit from all its advantages (better DR, AF, significant less RS, 6.2K Open Gate, 4K12Op) over 8K resolution. That said sensor aside both are pretty similar. From what I've noticed the recommended settings are to go -4 on sharpness and NR to get the most organic image. What I am really curious about is if ProRes diminishes the heavy chroma NR fuji applies to all its jpg & h26x footage, issue first discussed here: https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/60753-color-detail-issues-in-fujifilm-video-files/ Then there's also ProRes RAW & BRAW external for what should be ultimate IQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted October 10, 2022 Author Administrators Share Posted October 10, 2022 11 minutes ago, Django said: Any specific reason (other than price) why you picked XH2 over XH2S? Personally I'd rather go with XH2S's stacked sensor and benefit from all its advantages (better DR, AF, significant less RS, 6.2K Open Gate, 4K12Op) over 8K resolution. £700 price difference in UK so quite a lot. 4K/120p I have on EOS R5 so didn't need that again. On the X-H2S the 4K 120p comes with a hefty crop of sensor. 6.2K open gate already got on S1 and the 5K 4:3 mode of S1R great for anamorphic. X-H2 rolling shutter seems fine so far, I don't shoot a lot of fast paced handheld action. DR and AF isn't better on X-H2S and IBIS is worse. 11 minutes ago, Django said: That said sensor aside both are pretty similar. From what I've noticed the recommended settings are to go -4 on sharpness and NR to get the most organic image. Was this one of Gerald's tips. A real revelation that is haha. 11 minutes ago, Django said: What I am really curious about is if ProRes diminishes the heavy chroma NR fuji applies to all its jpg & h26x footage, issue first discussed here: https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/60753-color-detail-issues-in-fujifilm-video-files/ Then there's also ProRes RAW & BRAW external for what should be ultimate IQ. Yes curious about that as well. Care to do a test if I give you a file to play with @Attila Bakos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 25 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: £700 price difference in UK so quite a lot. 4K/120p I have on EOS R5 so didn't need that again. On the X-H2S the 4K 120p comes with a hefty crop of sensor. 6.2K open gate already got on S1 and the 5K 4:3 mode of S1R great for anamorphic. X-H2 rolling shutter seems fine so far, I don't shoot a lot of fast paced handheld action. DR and AF isn't better on X-H2S and IBIS is worse. Wow that is a big price difference! only 300€ difference over here. I can't find my source on DR but here is what DPreview said about AF (citing the Fuji white papers): Although both cameras use the same AF system, interface and processors, the company says there will be performance differences between the two. In a post-launch technical briefing, Fujifilm characterized the performance of the X-H2's AF tracking of moving subjects and its subject recognition of moving subjects as 'good' rather than the 'very good' rating it assessed for its faster camera. This makes sense given the X-H2's slower readout sensor, which means the AF system is receiving less frequent updates from the sensor about what's changed (around 26 fps rather than 120 fps) However, the company does point out that the X-H2 has many more AF elements than the X-H2S, saying its 3.33M focus elements should deliver better focus on finely detailed subject such as fur and foliage than the 2.16 million elements on the X-H2S's sensor. Another advantage about XH2 is oversampled 4K and some kind of zoom function possibly similar to Sony's clear image zoom. 31 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: Was this one of Gerald's tips. A real revelation that is haha. Sorry if it was so painfully obvious to you! I haven't been on Fuji for a while.. its great those settings are actually there unlike on Sony's where NR can't be diminished. 33 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: Yes curious about that as well. Care to do a test if I give you a file to play with @Attila Bakos? Thanks but I'm not really qualified for that! Definitely send it to him though (I guess h265 & ProRes files of similar footage ideally involving foliage for him to compare). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Bakos Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 Haha, I started reading this topic today and in the middle if it I wanted to ask you guys for some footage. Now I don't even have to, that's awesome 😄 Some distant forests would be nice, like in this example: https://youtu.be/7-RHHAUuI6s?t=466 Autumn is great for testing this kind of stuff. And yes, h.265 and ProRes please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted October 12, 2022 Author Administrators Share Posted October 12, 2022 Great, will grab you some files and post the links below later Attila Bakos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted October 13, 2022 Author Administrators Share Posted October 13, 2022 Finally stopped pissing it down with rain so some shots coming up later today. Here is first one... 6.2K ProRes LT. It is very impressive how it scales the 8K sensor. No crop in either 6.2K or 4K. The IBIS is amazing as well. Is this first shot a good test clip with the autumn leaves, or do you need something further away at infinity focus? Wetransfer link: https://we.tl/t-g7zPP58q3B Stathman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Bakos Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Thanks, but it is hard to judge based on this shot. I need something far away at infinity focus, something like I posted earlier, if that's possible. And please shoot it in F-Log, or F-Log2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Bakos Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 I downloaded the 8K video sample from the bottom of this article: https://www.photographyblog.com/previews/fujifilm_x_h2_photos It's 7680x4320 10bit 4:2:0 H.265 29.97fps, but only 100Mbps. 4:2:0 means that the chroma resolution should be 3840x2160. So I put the clip on a 3840x2160 timeline, and on the right side you see the Cr channel with added contrast for better visibility: https://www.dropbox.com/s/e04fm6oc5ac9qbz/X-H2_chroma.mov?dl=1 I'll let you judge this, but I don't like what I see. Higher bitrate might help, or ProRes as well, but the chroma processing is still here with us 🙂 And this is not even F-Log where the issue was more prominent in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted October 21, 2022 Author Administrators Share Posted October 21, 2022 Here is a ProRes LT clip at infinity https://we.tl/t-Di1du9K61X Will try and get more footage today but the weather has been diabolical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Bakos Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said: Here is a ProRes LT clip at infinity https://we.tl/t-Di1du9K61X Will try and get more footage today but the weather has been diabolical. Finally some noise in the Cr: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mesy1evzib28hb2/DSCF0234_Cr.mov?dl=1 Noise is good in this case. When you have a chance to do more, please use 422 instead of LT, I was told that the difference in quality was noticeable in the X-H2(s), and minimal between 422 and HQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted October 21, 2022 Author Administrators Share Posted October 21, 2022 Looks a lot better than the H265. I'll try the 422 in 8K next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Jenkins Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 I have the x-h2 and would be happy to shoot anything in any resolution. I'm shooting mostly h.265 at 720mb but will gladly post anything you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted October 21, 2022 Author Administrators Share Posted October 21, 2022 Thanks Dustin. Anyone got an X-H2S as well? Would be curious to compare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Jenkins Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 I have an xhs2 too. Andrew Reid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Bakos Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 23 hours ago, Dustin Jenkins said: I have the x-h2 and would be happy to shoot anything in any resolution. I'm shooting mostly h.265 at 720mb but will gladly post anything you want. Please shoot something with lots of fine detail and varying colors at infinity focus (trees with autumn colors are the best, check my youtube video I posted in this topic), both h.265 and ProRes. When it comes to h.265, the higher bitrate the better, and ProRes should be 422. UHD or higher resolution is fine. When comparing both cameras, please use the same scene with the same settings. F-Log and/or F-Log2 please. I know I ask a lot, but if you have other cameras as well, Canon/Sony/Panasonic, it would be nice to see them as well. The issue might not be obvious until you start to compare it with other cameras. kaylee and kye 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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