Panasonic GH4 or Sony A7S

[jonpais]

Try www.videoink.co.uk/musicvideoproduction

I have a completely new site coming out in 2 weeks with a new look and loads more vids, but plenty to see there :)

@Olly Your group really produces some outstanding, entertaining stuff. I just bookmarked your website.

[Michael1]

All signs point to the A7s killing the GH4 in terms of dynamic range.

 

If it can truly nail 15 stops in video mode, it'll rail the GH4 which looks closer to 11.5 stops.

 

 

Based on Andrew's recent test, I don't think you will be seeing 15 stops...maybe 13?

 

The A7S looks it could be a nice camera, but right now way over hyped.

 

Michael

[Oliver Daniel]

@Quirky.... I've decided to hold out for a GH7 because it will make me the best filmmaker in the world ever. Obviously. :p

 

@jonpais ... Cheers for checking out my stuff, I appreciate the credit. I'm very content driven - the limited gear I actually own doesn't stop me trying anything out. 

 

@everyone else ... Thanks for the feedback on my "yawnful" question that will probably dominate forums, in countless varieties, for a good year. In truth, I've sort of all ready decided to get the GH4 - just very curious about this A7S. (Didn't enjoy the 1DC). 

[noone]

If the a7s has a couple of stops of extra dynamic range (without looking too digital) then I'll be interested too.  I just wish it was aps-C.  With a speedbooster gives so many more options.

I would think it would have.

 

The existing garden variety A7 has almost the same dynamic range at ISO 400 as the GH4 at ISO 100 and the A7S should be better still (plus being aimed more at video).

 

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GH4-versus-Sony-A7-versus-Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III___943_916_795

[Guest d5f8611fa423d0e628c016f9d5c93b47]

I think if you are happy and successful with a GH3, buying a GH4 is a no brainer in a lot of ways. The other argument for a GH4 over an A7S for what you are doing is the 10bit thing. You will be able to grade GH4 footage to death with the addition of a $300 Ninja (see other thread about GH4 DR).

[odie]

2014 first (sales) quarter goes to panasonic the second quarter will go to sony …the third quarter will go to canon..nikon..???….2015..2016…business as usual

[Andrew Reid]

Don't forget the ready to shoot 4K pricing...

 

A7S = $4500

GH4 = $1699

[Oliver Daniel]

Yep, the ready to shoot price is a huge difference.

The 10 bit signal from the GH4 cannot be ignored. Also people forget that while full frame is a useful creative tool, it also has disadvantages. (Such as difficulty to focus, much more so in 4k).

My curiosity though is the final out of camera image - the motion cadence, the highlight/shadow roll off - that little something that makes it more magical. (Digital Bolex has obvious reasons for achieving this.)

I'll have to remain curious and wait for the sequel to the A7s. I'm going to get a GH4 - and if I've been really really good - a Digital Bolex. And a dishwasher.

[Andrew Reid]

I am sure the A7S II will have built in 4K and give us all a reason to rush out to the shops again.

 

My A7R is soon to go on eBay... A bit of a pointless purchase in light of the A7S... And sometimes I begin to wonder if the pointless purchases will ever end!

[noone]

Luminous Landscape first impressions of the A7S.

 

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sony_a7s_first_impressions.shtml

 

Couple of quotes I found interesting.

 

"I did not have time to explore the camera's HD video capabilities in depth. Two areas that I looked briefly at are high ISO performance and S-Log 2. What I found is that video high ISO performance pretty much matches that of stills, with ISO 51,200 being the highest usable speed."

 

and

 

 

  "Who is it For?

This then only leaves the most important question of all – what constituency is this camera intended for? Clearly, its low light sensitivity is remarkable. Two and a half to three stops more of usable sensitivity than just about any other camera would not be an indefensible claim. But, the trade-off is its use of a 12 Megapixel sensor. This is at the low end of the scale by 2014 standards. Anyone who crops a lot, or who wants to make large prints will find the sensor's low resolution constraining. 

But, as I noted earlier in this report, individual images from the A7s have what I can only call the medium format look, which might be a curious thing to say given that the sensor is only 12 Megapixels, but nevertheless is what I see. Large pixels are simply different in the "look" that they create.

Videographers and film makers will welcome the low light ability, full frame shallow DOF lenses, and 4K ability. But 4K won't be available until Q4 of 2014 when the Atomos Shogun ships. Then the price equation will need to be considered, because at $4,500 for camera plus recorder numerous alternatives present themselves."

 

 

The camera will not be 4k at all until later in the year.      Is it likely that a cheaper recorder will be available from someone else at any time?

 

[gethin]

a7s is APSC or Fullframe, you can choose in camera, its I think one of the most exciting features, hopefully quality will be equal in both modes at least in 1080p

Yeah but. If its 4k full frame how does it get 4k from a crop? Unless its actually like 24mp but only using every other pixel for its full frame image?

[Quirky]

My curiosity though is the final out of camera image - the motion cadence, the highlight/shadow roll off - that little something that makes it more magical. (Digital Bolex has obvious reasons for achieving this.)

I'll have to remain curious and wait for the sequel to the A7s. I'm going to get a GH4 - and if I've been really really good - a Digital Bolex. And a dishwasher.

 

So... if your goal is mostly video and not stills, why not just ignore the usual suspects, and go straight to the Digital Bolex, then?

Skip the dishwasher, buy a few new dishwasher brushes and a bottle of Fairy, and save the money for the camera. 

 

I think I'd do just that, if my current dishwasher went kaputt today.  ;)

The D16 is quite a compelling option, albeit a bit pricey, too, for my current budget.

[maxotics]

I really enjoyed your reel, but I felt some clips were weak (for my taste) because the image turned murky-gray because, I assume, you were trying to bring out shadow detail that just isn't there in H.264.  In my experience, the biggest difference in video source is whether it is H.264 source or RAW.  I don't watch anything in 4K, (or know anyone who does), so i don't see major improvements to anything you shot, if you had shot in GH4.  I'm not suggesting you don't upgrade to the GH4, only that it won't change the look much.

 

As for the a7s, you will want what it can do in low light, but like you say, you can rent it.  Same with a RAW based camera.  I have an a7 and a6000 now.  Sony to me, has finally "got it".  However, it will be a couple of years before the lenses and gear catch up.  And who knows, they may backslide.  I also have a GM1 and it simply floors me how good that video is that comes out of that camera.  Here's some stuff I shot (between photos https://www.flickr.com/photos/maxotics/sets/72157644774969627/) in auto mode.  [BTW, dropped camera 2 feet, in felt case, and it cracked a bit on edge and now doesn't soot in shutter mode, very flimsy camera].

 

[Oliver Daniel]

So... if your goal is mostly video and not stills, why not just ignore the usual suspects, and go straight to the Digital Bolex, then?

Skip the dishwasher, buy a few new dishwasher brushes and a bottle of Fairy, and save the money for the camera. 

 

I don't even have space for a dishwasher, but domestic issues aside, I have already decided I want a D16 because I have many ideas that would be fantastically suited to the use of this camera. Plus I'm dusting off some scripts for short films where the D16 will give me aesthetic power I really need to achieve the look I'm going for. Just need to save, or get the big job in!

 

The reason I'm going for the GH4 and Atomos combo are the benefits of ProRes editing, more colour data to play with, the ability to punch in/re-frame camera angles for music videos, focus peaking, 96fps, better colour profiles and the stills function - as I also do promo photography for bands on the music video shoot too. It's a fantastic all-rounder - superb for what I do. 

 

 

 

I really enjoyed your reel, but I felt some clips were weak (for my taste) because the image turned murky-gray because, I assume, you were trying to bring out shadow detail that just isn't there in H.264.  In my experience, the biggest difference in video source is whether it is H.264 source or RAW.  I don't watch anything in 4K, (or know anyone who does), so i don't see major improvements to anything you shot, if you had shot in GH4.  I'm not suggesting you don't upgrade to the GH4, only that it won't change the look much.

 

Thanks for the critique. I personally don't like any of my own work after playing the same songs over and over, tweaking and tweaking. But beside that point, I would rather all the images in my reel be shot with a camera with a more powerful imager.... but I don't let the camera hold me back on my ideas and the visual I want to achieve. I have to do the best with what I have. 

 

In terms of the data, I'm fully aware that maybe I shouldn't push the codec in a way that some wouldn't dare - but when I weigh up the pros and cons of the final aesthetic, I go for it and "break the rules" a bit. Sometimes I feel flaws can give character. Sometimes I'm happy,  a lot of the time I'm not. But if the client can't tell and the target audience gives positive feedback - then I don't care as much. 

 

A GH4 won't improve my content, but I will be given a more well rounded toolset to help withe the job - as listed above for Quirky. If I'm able to improve the overall aesthetic with the GH4, then that will be a lovely bonus! 

 

Also, this reel doesn't show any work I have done in the past year - the new one has been delayed and features videos shot on RED Epic & Blackmagic... the style is so different it won't quite fit in with my previous stuff and I have to decide which way to go about it, although friends prefer my GH3 stuff! What a world we live in!

[Prefabsprout]

This is some talent dancers...shot on a Sony A7s

 

[Nikkor]

This is some talent dancers...shot on a Sony A7s

 

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[maxotics]

Also, this reel doesn't show any work I have done in the past year - the new one has been delayed and features videos shot on RED Epic & Blackmagic... the style is so different it won't quite fit in with my previous stuff and I have to decide which way to go about it, although friends prefer my GH3 stuff! What a world we live in!

 

Yes, that sums it up!  As much as I am into cameras, if you took any photo or video I took in the past and asked me what camera I shot it with I probably wouldn't remember, or care.  I sold my BMPCC by the way because as much as I love the look, it wasn't practical for me.  However, YOU'RE a professional so I can play annoying guy in the peanut gallery ;)

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

This is some talent dancers...shot on a Sony A7s

[jgharding]

The camera is too damn small for internal NDs. Come on, this is the one feature I believe missing not because of product differentiation (crippling) but because of physical constraints.ere!

 

Dammit we sent men to the moon! Lols.

 

Yeah it's a big ask, but still. I WAAAAAANT!

[VideoRican]

Has anyone determined the clip length limit on the a7s yet?  I've read some statements saying it will be 30 minutes, but I've seen nothing credible yet.