Windows alternative to pro-res

[gethin]

I want to archive some timelapse stuff (squirrel away my raw files and jpegs and just keep say a 4K video file).  I've done most of my grading already.

 

Should I just bite the bullet and buy this:

http://www.miraizon.com/products/codecsoverview.html

 

Or is there an alternative?

 

I've heard the avid  Avid Codecs LE 2.3.9 dont support 4k (or well, if they do)

 

 

 

 

[sunyata]

ffmpeg has prores support and it's free.

 

you can do in the windows terminal (once you add the folder to your shell path):

 

ffmpeg -i mysequence.%04d.dpx -i myaudio.wav -c:v prores -pix_fmt yuv422p10le -c:a aac -r 23.976 myvideo.mov

 

"%04d" means a 4 digit padded numeric sequence is the input ("-i").

 

that would be 10bit 4:2:2 prores. there are lots of options for codecs and pixel formats. 

 

"ffmpeg -codecs" will list all codecs supported and "ffmpeg -pix_fmts" will output all the pixel formats.

[jcs]

Perhaps do a test with high bitrate H.264/MP4 (100-200Mbps). You might be surprised by the results. ProRes will need around 800Mbps for 4K (vs around 200Mbps for 2K).

[jgharding]

ffmpeg has prores support and it's free.

 

you can do in the windows terminal (once you add the folder to your shell path):

 

ffmpeg -i mysequence.%04d.dpx -i myaudio.wav -c:v prores -pix_fmt yuv422p10le -c:a aac -r 23.976 myvideo.mov

 

"%04d" means a 4 digit padded numeric sequence is the input ("-i").

 

that would be 10bit 4:2:2 prores. there are lots of options for codecs and pixel formats. 

 

"ffmpeg -codecs" will list all codecs supported and "ffmpeg -pix_fmts" will output all the pixel formats.

 

This is cool, it'd be good to be able to make ProRes on PC.

 

Would you mind expanding a little? What would I need for this? Just Quicktime and FFMPEG or any other tools?

[sunyata]

jg-

 

you can download a windows binary here:

 

http://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/builds/

 

basically, you just unzip it and run it straight from the binaries folder. it comes with several tools like ffprobe, to get info on a file, and ffplay. it's command line based so you can use it in a batch convert scenario. to make it easy to execute from the windows console, you need to add the location of the unzipped binaries to your system variables.

 

tutorial on how to do add a path to your system for java, but same applies for any executable you want to call directly from the prompt:

 

http://www.java.com/en/download/help/path.xml

 

It doesn't need quicktime.

[William Guy]

But in terms of alternatives... Our best options on Windows are AVC-Intra 100 and DNxHD, right?

[jgharding]

DNxHD is 1080p maximum at the moment.

 

You could try Cineform...

[jgharding]

FYI I just bought Miraizon and it works great, I got scared of FFMPEG ;)

 

It allows you to make 4K ProRes HQ, 4444, all the different kinds, in 4K too, right from Adobe Media Encoder. Great tool.

[andrgl]

I got scared of FFMPEG ;)

FFmpeg has a bunch of front-ends. I use WinFF to encode.

[Inazuma]

Which one did you buy jgharding?

[gethin]

Sorry I should've said I was hoping to do this straight from premiere, rather than transcoding. I wonder if h264 as JCS suggested would be OK. My technical knowledge let's me down here. (I have no idea if premiere uses more than 8 bit space to work in, and if not whether there are any gains to be had from prores over h264)

[galenb]

Miraizon is only $50. That's the way I would go. I was actually just wondering about this the other day: How are people who have a BMPCC supposed to edit their ProRes Files on a PC without something like this? I mean, it seems to me, the benefit of using ProRes on a camera is that it's a drop-in editing format… As long as you are using a Mac though. What's the windows world supposed to do?

 

I really don't understand why there isn't a more accessible ProRes codec for Windows. 

[Inazuma]

Oonce you have Miraizon installed, you can edit and encode ProRes files in Adobe on Windows?

[Axel]

FYI I just bought Miraizon and it works great, I got scared of FFMPEG ;)

 

It allows you to make 4K ProRes HQ, 4444, all the different kinds, in 4K too, right from Adobe Media Encoder. Great tool.

 

Okay, please tell me if it allows you to create a desktop project with ProRes. And if so, if you feel a performance increase. ProRes actually is not about quality*, it's about ease-of-use, a classic intermediate. I recommend you don't transcode anything in advance, you just try to have ProRes as render & master codec but import native codecs.

 

*at least not directly, only if you have to decrease playback quality for better realtime and judge your project (with effects, compositing and CC) based on that view.

[jgharding]

I'll try and clear up a few bits:

 

You can edit ProRes on Windows Premiere without installing Miraizon. I have done this many times.

 

Miraizon allows you to encode to ProRes straight from Premiere or via Media Encoder. You cannot do this without Miraizon.

 

Here's an example of it in use:

 

 

I bought  DNxHD and ProRes QuickTime Codecs from here http://www.miraizon.com/store/store.html

 

For the money I can't see a problem with this bit of software.

 

***

 

On Premiere, yes it's a 32-bit floating-point engine, though you won't always see this in timeline, unless you choose Maximum Bit Depth in sequence settings.

 

As long as you tick the Render at Maximum Depth box at render, you'll get best colour space. If you don't, banding is a lot worse. So tick it! :)

 

 

The maximum render quality setting at the bottom affects scaling only. Tick this if you've scaled at all in your project.

 

***

 

I never transcode to an intermediate unless my computer can't play back footage in real time. You don't gain anything visually, as all processing is done in 32-bit. The colour you lost at compression in camera  was, you guessed it, lost at compression in camera. Turning 8-bit to 10-bit won't give you any benefit, so if your computer is powerful enough, edit native

 

5D to RGB did have some arguable benefit, intelligently reshaping the red channel of 4:2:0 footage, but Premiere is pretty good at it all to be honest, so I'd save the disk space and time.

 

Being able to output ProRes from PC is great, as many film festivals and clients  want it.

[Axel]

I never transcode to an intermediate unless my computer can't play back footage in real time. You don't gain anything visually, as all processing is done in 32-bit. The colour you lost at compression in camera  was, you guessed it, lost at compression in camera. Turning 8-bit to 10-bit won't give you any benefit, so if your computer is powerful enough, edit native

 

Reasonable enough. I didn't say you should transcode to an intermediate. I was interested if export speed improved with ProRes with heavy post manipulations, many layers, keyframes asf. 

 

Because, if the only advantage of ProRes (mpeg2) over any mpeg4 master file was to soothe some festival receptionists or snoot-nosed Apple fanboy clients, that would not be very important. You could as well say, I give you an mp4, transcode it yourself!

 

If ProRes was not an alternative to something you usually would render uncompressed, than it really makes no sense.

[jgharding]

Reasonable enough. I didn't say you should transcode to an intermediate. I was interested if export speed improved with ProRes with heavy post manipulations, many layers, keyframes asf. 

 

Because, if the only advantage of ProRes (mpeg2) over any mpeg4 master file was to soothe some festival receptionists or snoot-nosed Apple fanboy clients, that would not be very important. You could as well say, I give you an mp4, transcode it yourself!

 

If ProRes was not an alternative to something you usually would render uncompressed, than it really makes no sense.

 

Day to day I won't need it. But if someone is paying you for a job and they want ProRes, being able to give it to them is very importan. I don't want to have to use a Mac if I can avoid it. I also use it for archiving masters at high quality but reasonable bit rate.

 

Most clients will take MP4s though, I find. Some want WMV. Odd!!

[sunyata]

jg-

 

On the topic of what clients want to review work on, we have lots of clients at studios that look at work in progress on their iPhone's and even make comments about color grading that way, while having lunch outside in the direct sun I suppose.

 

To be fair, that is how more people will see the end results these days, but really, an iPhone? Lemme guess, everything looks too small to you?

[jgharding]

haha yes the iPhone! In fact now I do review all work on iPhone screen because it's an important benchmark. I also sometimes make adjustments to suit it