Canon R6 Mark II Announced

[Django]

7 minutes ago, ade towell said:

Hey that's great and all power to you, I'm just pointing out that after what happened with the R5 it isn't too much of a stretch to think that maybe just maybe they could also fix the R6 overheating with firmware if they really wanted to - and then the tight arses I work for wouldn't need to buy a new camera (they won't anyway...)

I hear you. I'm currently in the process of selling my R6 which surprisingly has held its value pretty well and even more surprisingly very few are on the second hand market compared to R5's ! I guess that's about to change with the mark 2 which is why I'm hoping for a speedy transaction before word gets out to the masses.. so in all the upgrade cost should be fairly minor.

[ade towell]

Good luck with the sale, we had been looking at used R5 since the overheating fix but the 30 minute limit makes the new R6ii a better fit. When will you actually be able to get hold of one, the R6 is our primary stills camera and we couldn't be without it for very long?

[Django]

Mid-November so very soon! I must admit I'm also debating in between R6ii and used R5 with firmware fix. I'm leaning towards the R6ii for the reason you mentioned but also false colour, C70's detect only AF, breathing comp, the new easy video menu, stills/video switch etc.

[herein2020]

52 minutes ago, Django said:

I do feel like Canon can't win on these boards. If they don't fix stuff like overheat they get slammed, they fix it and add things, people complain they weren't added in previous models. I guess Sony users have similar complaints (i.e the Philip Bloom FX30 review/rant video).

According to my bank account Canon is winning (C70, R5, R7, lenses), so yes I am very critical of Canon because there's so many very simple things they could do in FW to make big wins in the customer satisfaction department, but at the end of the day for me nothing still checks as many boxes as Canon so regardless of their shortcomings they won regardless. 

Their massive lens ecosystem is what holds many users, myself included, completely hostage to their whims and here lately they are producing cameras that are just good enough to make it very difficult to leave once you are in. They fixed the showstoppers for me (no dual slot video recording, no overheating during video recording even here in FL heat, XLR audio input options), and they pair that with competitive dynamic range sensors, industry leading AF, Canon colors, and acceptable IBIS.

Honestly, the only real criticisms I have left is no electronic level in the C70, terrible build quality of the C70, video tools disappear while recording in the R5 and R7, no WFM or shutter angle in the R5 or R7, freezing in the R5 requiring a restart (super annoying BTW), EVF latency in the R5 and R7 (no idea how people are working around this one), and no 4:5 aspect ratio guides in the R5, R7, or C70.

Canon could knock the R6II out of the park with internal Cinema Raw Lite at 30FPS internally since we know they can do it to SD cards (i.e. C70); they probably still will if Sony looks like they are doing too well, but even without it I definitely consider the R6II a pretty serious hybrid camera; far more than the first one as long as overheating really is fixed.

 

[herein2020]

....duplicate post

[kye]

2 hours ago, Django said:

I do feel like Canon can't win on these boards.

I don't think any manufacturer can win on these boards.

Yeah, Canon gets a lot of criticism.  A lot.  

But so does Sony.  People say their older cameras had intolerable colour science, their lenses are too expensive, their image is soul-less, people who like them are shills etc.

Good luck having a conversation about Panasonic without being drowned out by people talking about auto-focus like they have Tourettes Syndrome, and if you're talking about a MFT camera then why would you - the mount is dead don't you know? and didn't Panasonic used to have a cinema camera division......?

Fuji is criticised for not having FF options, despite offering S35 and a range of Medium Format cameras that produce lovely images, and is currently laid bare with people doing extractions of the Cr channel and wondering WTF they are doing to the image to make them so awful..... in a dedicated thread.

Sigma is loved for having one of the nicest sensors in many years, provides 4K and high-res models to choose from, but is criticised heavily because it is secretly the successor to the OG BMPCC with lovely images and almost nothing else going for it.  Plus, you know, almost no-one bought one.

Olympus?  Aren't they bankrupt?  Did you know they released a new camera recently?  No?  Neither did anyone else - there's no mention of it on here at all.  The worst kind of criticism is being ignored.

Pentax?  The 80's called and wants it's camera back!

*cough* Samsung *cough* NX-1 *cough* better go have a covid test......

[Django]

1 hour ago, herein2020 said:

Honestly, the only real criticisms I have left is no electronic level in the C70, terrible build quality of the C70, video tools disappear while recording in the R5 and R7, no WFM or shutter angle in the R5 or R7, freezing in the R5 requiring a restart (super annoying BTW), EVF latency in the R5 and R7 (no idea how people are working around this one), and no 4:5 aspect ratio guides in the R5, R7, or C70.

Canon could knock the R6II out of the park with internal Cinema Raw Lite at 30FPS internally since we know they can do it to SD cards (i.e. C70); they probably still will if Sony looks like they are doing too well, but even without it I definitely consider the R6II a pretty serious hybrid camera; far more than the first one as long as overheating really is fixed.

 

Fair points. Is the C70 build quality really that bad? I mean besides the shaky display mount ? I still feel it is a beast of an entry-level cine cam with better DR and overall IQ than the R mirrorless line. FX3/FX30 don't even have WFM or shutter angle and they are part of the FX cine line. At least R5C has those..

 

[herein2020]

15 minutes ago, Django said:

Fair points. Is the C70 build quality really that bad? I mean besides the shaky display mount ? I still feel it is a beast of an entry-level cine cam with better DR and overall IQ than the R mirrorless line. FX3/FX30 don't even have WFM or shutter angle and they are part of the FX cine line. At least R5C has those..

 

 

The display is a big one, the joystick is pretty much unusable, and all of the buttons are cheaper than my Canon Rebel's buttons. I get it, Canon really had to do some serious cost cutting to offer that sensor at that price point and the C70 really is a beast at its price point, but the screen, buttons, and joystick are worse than any other camera I've ever owned.

TBH, it was one of the reasons I got the R7 as a bcam. I will mostly use the R7 as my gimbal camera since the C70 is overkill for the event work that I shoot which is a large portion of my work and because that screen is sticking out waiting to be broken off when it is on a gimbal. If it so much as gets bumped once it will be annoyingly floppy/shaky after that. Locked down on a tripod or carefully handheld the C70 is a pure joy to shoot with.

For more controlled environments where there's not a bunch of people bumping into you or not looking where they are going, the C70 really shines on a gimbal.

[Django]

36 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

 

The display is a big one, the joystick is pretty much unusable, and all of the buttons are cheaper than my Canon Rebel's buttons. I get it, Canon really had to do some serious cost cutting to offer that sensor at that price point and the C70 really is a beast at its price point, but the screen, buttons, and joystick are worse than any other camera I've ever owned.

TBH, it was one of the reasons I got the R7 as a bcam. I will mostly use the R7 as my gimbal camera since the C70 is overkill for the event work that I shoot which is a large portion of my work and because that screen is sticking out waiting to be broken off when it is on a gimbal. If it so much as gets bumped once it will be annoyingly floppy/shaky after that. Locked down on a tripod or carefully handheld the C70 is a pure joy to shoot with.

For more controlled environments where there's not a bunch of people bumping into you or not looking where they are going, the C70 really shines on a gimbal.

Gotcha I guess my next question would be what would you choose in between an R5 & R6ii? 

I heard the 8K RAW is just huge file size wise so not sure I'd ever use it in a practical sense. 

[ade towell]

4 hours ago, Django said:

New sensor with a half-stop better DR and much lower RS

Do you have a source for this can't seem to find anything concrete? Am trying to put forward a case for this camera at work...

[MrSMW]

Well I’ve watched and read a few reviews and I have to say I quite like it…and it’s going on the list.

It’s not going to the top and everything has to be part of the overall system, but yes, that could work…

Maybe as my primary video unit paired with an R5 as my primary stills plus maybe an R7 for gimbal and static stuff.

Lenses is where it all falls apart a bit for me…

With my current L Mount set up, it’s mostly third party Sigma.

If I move to my No.1 contender Sony, that would be exclusively third party Tamron.

But Canon is RF or ‘adapted’ EF so I’d need to look hard at that and suspect it would be; bigger, heavier and more expensive than the options I am currently considering. Cost is of the least concern, but the size/weight part of the equation could scupper it.

I have no brand loyalty for the sake of brand loyalty alone 😜

What I like about this new chap is the AF and zero crop 4k 50p. As long as the IBIS is decent, that’s it, job done for me.

Flip out screen though 🤢

Flip out screen seems to have to be the compromise everywhere though except Z9 and A7RV…and to me it is a big deal.

[Django]

23 minutes ago, ade towell said:

Do you have a source for this can't seem to find anything concrete? Am trying to put forward a case for this camera at work...

Yes in this French review at around 14 minutes:

 

[Django]

15 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

But Canon is RF or ‘adapted’ EF so I’d need to look hard at that and suspect it would be; bigger, heavier and more expensive than the options I am currently considering. Cost is of the least concern, but the size/weight part of the equation could scupper it.

RF lenses are pretty light and compact but the L series F2.8 zooms are pricey.  Optically excellent. The non L RF primes are super compact, affordable and punch way above their price point with IS and macro.
 

EF lenses opens up affordable Canon legacy L series lenses and all third party lenses but yeah bigger and heavier for the most part. 

[herein2020]

2 hours ago, Django said:

Gotcha I guess my next question would be what would you choose in between an R5 & R6ii? 

I heard the 8K RAW is just huge file size wise so not sure I'd ever use it in a practical sense. 

That's an easy one; for hybrid video work I would choose the R6II or even the R7 over the R5; especially since only the R6II and R7 have the hybrid hot shoe for XLR and audio accessories (not counting the R3). For 100% stills work I would choose the R5 simply because of its 45MP image sizes and that's how I use my setup. At this point I don't see any features in the R5 that most users need that the R6II can't deliver. 

Below is how I use my setup:

R5 - Photography Only (video if it's a 90% photo shoot with 10% video)

R7 - Second photo camera for the R5, B Cam for video for the C70 A camera for run and gun event work and for 50/50 video/photo shoots (i.e. BTS footage, quick YT reels, etc.)

C70 - Obviously video only

I used 8K out of the R5 only once and only for a few seconds to see if my editing workstation could edit the files. I like to think what camera would I take on a trip if I could only take one camera for 50/50 photo/video work and that would be the R6II (if it doesn't overheat), or the R7.  The R6II is "only" 24MP for photos but unless you are doing print work that's more than enough for social media photos.

[Django]

28 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

That's an easy one; for hybrid video work I would choose the R6II or even the R7 over the R5; especially since only the R6II and R7 have the hybrid hot shoe for XLR and audio accessories (not counting the R3). For 100% stills work I would choose the R5 simply because of its 45MP image sizes and that's how I use my setup. At this point I don't see any features in the R5 that most users need that the R6II can't deliver. 

Below is how I use my setup:

R5 - Photography Only (video if it's a 90% photo shoot with 10% video)

R7 - Second photo camera for the R5, B Cam for video for the C70 A camera for run and gun event work and for 50/50 video/photo shoots (i.e. BTS footage, quick YT reels, etc.)

C70 - Obviously video only

I used 8K out of the R5 only once and only for a few seconds to see if my editing workstation could edit the files. I like to think what camera would I take on a trip if I could only take one camera for 50/50 photo/video work and that would be the R6II (if it doesn't overheat), or the R7.  The R6II is "only" 24MP for photos but unless you are doing print work that's more than enough for social media photos.

Interesting, although having an R5 only for stills work sounds to me like a bit of a waste considering its hefty price tag. Unless you absolutely need 45MP? Video features only the R5 has: 4K120p no crop, ALL-I, 8K, RAW, 4K DCI. Not bad but not necessarily worth the $1200 premium (or whopping extra 1700€ here in EU) over an R6ii that just like A7IV has lower specs than an A7S3 but many lowkey refinements that the bigger model lacks. It's really a move Canon stole from the Sony playbook when you think of it! 

 

[ade towell]

1 hour ago, herein2020 said:

 the R6II and R7 have the hybrid hot shoe for XLR and audio accessories (not counting the R3)

What's peoples thoughts on the Tascam audio thing on the hot shoe - the thought of XLR cables dangling from that already weak and delicate point makes me wince almost as much as micro hdmi. Attaching a wireless receiver would be ok but not sure about anything more.

Would be curious to know if the internal audio quality has improved on the R6ii from the original R6, I have used a Sound Devices MIX pre mounted under the camera and fed the audio directly into R6 and the quality was ok but not as good as Panasonic S1 

[Ty Harper]

With the price of a used R5 dropping below the $3K US mark lately (in Canada that is) and its overheating issues being addressed - I'm curious what would make the R6 II a better B-CAM option for people with C70s or R5Cs? 

Aside from having no 30 minute time limit of course.

[herein2020]

8 hours ago, MrSMW said:

But Canon is RF or ‘adapted’ EF so I’d need to look hard at that and suspect it would be; bigger, heavier and more expensive than the options I am currently considering. Cost is of the least concern, but the size/weight part of the equation could scupper it.

I actually think lenses is Canon's biggest strength.  There is literally every Canon EF lens you can imagine, used EF glass is a great value (as long as you can be sure its not scratched or damaged), even buying new EF glass is still a fraction of the price of the RF glass.  Yes you need the adapter but even that is a strength if you go with the variable ND filter adapter route. 

As far as weight goes I really couldn't say since I have only ever shot with Canon glass. If cost is no issue, then you would probably be better off with two R6II's versus an R7 and R6. Trying to match up the crop sensor to the R6's FF sensor ould end up with more complexity than necessary, not to mention you typically want to shoot 50/60FPS on a gimbal and the R7 is line skipped in those modes. I am still trying to decide if I will get a speedbooster for the R7 to match it up easier and gain that stop of light. Also, the same menu system and settings options in every camera at a shoot is another workflow optimizer.

6 hours ago, Django said:

Interesting, although having an R5 only for stills work sounds to me like a bit of a waste considering its hefty price tag. Unless you absolutely need 45MP? Video features only the R5 has: 4K120p no crop, ALL-I, 8K, RAW, 4K DCI. Not bad but not necessarily worth the $1200 premium (or whopping extra 1700€ here in EU) over an R6ii that just like A7IV has lower specs than an A7S3 but many lowkey refinements that the bigger model lacks. It's really a move Canon stole from the Sony playbook when you think of it! 

 

 

I think if you look at it from a videographer's standpoint then yes, it is a waste of a lot of features. But I shoot literally everything photography as well; real estate, portraits, fashion, commercial, events, etc.  There's just something about the 5 series for photography that no other camera from Canon quite captures. Also, that 45MP really shows its strength when you need to crop; with the R5 I can literally shoot landscape for people then crop to portrait for social media and not lose any resolution so I can offer multiple formats for my client (website, social media, print) all from the same set of images without losing quality. Another scenario is when you are a bit too far away from the subject to fill the frame at events, I can losslessly crop in to the right composition.

Am I trying to justify my purchase a bit here; yes probably, but in my defense I did try to do the right thing and purchased the R6 first. However, it felt like a step down from my 5DIV for photography and a step down from my S5 for video so I returned it within a week. The R5 on the other hand feels like a step up in every way over my 5DIV except for that EVF lag. 

For me the R5's video features are just icing on the cake for those rare times when a photo shoot suddenly needs a few video clips. My R5 doesn't have a cage, has a battery grip, shoulder strap etc.; completely rigged for photography only, even the tripod plate is set up differently and that's the way I like it. The one time I ventured into the video part of the R5 during an event that %)(** overheating warning came on within 10min (v1.5 of the FW, not the new v1.6) and reminded me that I bought it for photography only. Haven't shot a video clip with it since.

5 hours ago, ade towell said:

What's peoples thoughts on the Tascam audio thing on the hot shoe - the thought of XLR cables dangling from that already weak and delicate point makes me wince almost as much as micro hdmi. Attaching a wireless receiver would be ok but not sure about anything more.

Would be curious to know if the internal audio quality has improved on the R6ii from the original R6, I have used a Sound Devices MIX pre mounted under the camera and fed the audio directly into R6 and the quality was ok but not as good as Panasonic S1 

I used it all the time with the S5, so to me it was a massive hole in Canon's mirrorless until the new hybrid shoe came out. With the S5 I would only use it when it was on a tripod where all of the wiring could be secured and tucked away; yes it is clunky and not ideal, but if you have a camera that can shoot for 2hrs straight without overheating then at least have some kind of XLR in option. 

On the other hand I am surprised that cheaper options haven't came out yet for that hotshoe. The Tascam is huge, costly, and needs batteries. The S5 pulled power from the hotshoe and was smaller although still costly. If you do need XLR audio on a regular basis, then the C70 is definitely the better option.

For event work, I have found just a normal shotgun camera mounted mic works pretty well when combined with noise reduction in Davinci Resolve. People don't expect perfect audio at events and it was too much of a PITA to fiddle with wireless lav mics for quick interviews at busy events. 

[MrSMW]

4 hours ago, herein2020 said:

I actually think lenses is Canon's biggest strength.

I agree...in principle, but I'm always being selfish, thinking of myself and my own needs and not other people 😜

I'm looking at building the stills side of my next system around the Tamron 35-150mm f2/2.8

It's hardly small or a lightweight, but when compared to having the next closest thing available with Canon which is a 24-70 and a 70-200...

But then Tamron (again), have a smaller and lighter pairing of 28-75 and 70-180 which is arguably the next closest pairing to that 35-150.

I don't need anything longer so that's not an issue but do need something wider even if it's not used that much, it is used on every job.

There are a number of options in that regard but something around 20-40 is perfect for my needs and it just so happens Tamron make that.

So for me it's about system system system and that is my frustration with everyone right now except Sony and Nikon because they are the only two which can run these lenses.

The problem with Nikon is that they have to be adapted and they only make one camera that really fits my needs and 3 of those would be massive overkill!

So looking at it, a single R5 plus a pair of R6ii's would probably be my best camera combo from Canon, but it would require more lenses and more lens changes and never quite having the right one all the time.

My reasoning is as above, purely my own use case which I understand inside out and it is a puzzle that can be put together in various ways but there's really only one option right now where all the pieces fit perfectly.

Now if Canon had not made their policy to keep it all in house, then it might be a different situation but going forward, I can't make a decision that favours 50% of my needs (camera body) over the other 50% (lenses). Or visa versa, ie, if Sony didn't produce any bodies that ticked every box, they'd be a dead duck.

 

[Django]

9 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

With the price of a used R5 dropping below the $3K US mark lately (in Canada that is) and its overheating issues being addressed - I'm curious what would make the R6 II a better B-CAM option for people with C70s or R5Cs? 

Aside from having no 30 minute time limit of course.

well just like the original R6, it has better FF 4K60p IQ as it oversamples with no line skipping unlike R5 FF 4K60p.

as already mentioned, R6ii has new stuff like the smart hotshoe for Tascam xlr audio, a very handy stills/video switch (R5 requires mode button steps), the latest AF system with deep learning and C70's detect only, false colour, aspect ratio markers & pre-record buffer. a 10x FHD zoom. Focus breathing compensation. A new OVF simulation for the EVF. And as you already know no 30mn time limit and no overheating at up to 4K30p.

its basically a better all-rounder and substantially cheaper when buying new, especially here in EU.

if you don't need 8K RAW, 4K120p or 45MP it makes much better sense.

 

9 hours ago, herein2020 said:

Am I trying to justify my purchase a bit here; yes probably, but in my defense I did try to do the right thing and purchased the R6 first. However, it felt like a step down from my 5DIV for photography and a step down from my S5 for video so I returned it within a week. The R5 on the other hand feels like a step up in every way over my 5DIV except for that EVF lag. 

For me the R5's video features are just icing on the cake for those rare times when a photo shoot suddenly needs a few video clips. My R5 doesn't have a cage, has a battery grip, shoulder strap etc.; completely rigged for photography only, even the tripod plate is set up differently and that's the way I like it. The one time I ventured into the video part of the R5 during an event that %)(** overheating warning came on within 10min (v1.5 of the FW, not the new v1.6) and reminded me that I bought it for photography only. Haven't shot a video clip with it since.

 

A step down from your 5DIV how? the only thing I can think of is the megapixel count (30 vs 20).

DXO ranks the R6 above the 5DIV in terms of DR and ISO noise performance. R6 does use the flagship 1DX3 sensor..

As for the R5 overheating, it has been substantially mitigated with v1.6 : 

https://downloads.canon.com/EOSR5_recordtime_7-21.pdf

With the high setting its basically a non-issue. So again a bit of a waste not to benefit from it for FF video. I also have battery grip, shoulder strap etc on my hybrids, that doesn't prevent me from shooting some quick handheld video bits during events thanks to IBIS. 4K120p would be even better handheld.

But ok you have it dedicated to photo duties and a C70 + R7 for video. That's a nice setup.