Audience reaction to Revenge Of The Great Camera Shootout puts GH2 in 3rd place behind Alexa and F65

[Andrew Reid]

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[img]http://www.eoshd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/zacuto-revenge-of-the-great-camera-shootout-2012.jpg[/img]

The Revenge Of The Great Camera Shootout is [url="http://store.zacuto.com/116.html"]Zacuto’s[/url] antidote to pixel peeping camera tests. It airs June 15th online, but preview showings have been taking part around the world. It aims to show how any camera from the very top (Alexa, Sony F65) down (to the iPhone) are viable filmmaking tools. Whilst I agree with Steve that creativity is overlooked too often and gear gets all the attention, I wouldn’t go quite as far as Steve in claiming the camera does not matter. The camera and lens – like lighting, like set design, like a location, like actors – has an aesthetic quality that goes into the production and heavily influences the mood of the film. I would use anamorphic lenses as my trademark style, because I feel that particular ‘brush stroke’ suits my kind of filmmaking, helping to create the moods I want. So yes, the camera matters in my view!

Here’s an interesting audience reaction to The Revenge Of The Great Camera Shootout…

[url="http://www.eoshd.com/content/8114/audience-reaction-to-revenge-of-the-great-camera-shootout-puts-gh2-in-3rd-place-behind-alexa-and-f65/"]Read full article[/url]

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[lubricated]

GH2 rocks, no doubt about it. But sometimes, just sometimes people chase codecs and pixels too mush don't you think?

[Andrew Reid]

[quote author=lubricated link=topic=738.msg5436#msg5436 date=1337256458]
GH2 rocks, no doubt about it. But sometimes, just sometimes people chase codecs and pixels too mush don't you think?
[/quote]

Yes I agree. But there is a place for chasing codecs and pixels on codec and pixel chasing websites isn't there?

In filmmaking, the broad sense of it, they should play a small but crucial part. What frustrates me quite a lot is when an article goes up about creativity and it gets ignored, then one goes up about a codec and BOOM. But again - there is a place for that. Nobody should not be surprised that a gear site (and this is partly one of them) should create a lot of discussion about gear! A balance is needed between creative use of gear, and the gear itself. I try to strike that and I think Steve is doing a similar thing with these tests.

[Sean Cunningham]

It's an inherent part of the craft with these tools.  Given the fact that it's an option, as a shooter, not being at least somewhat versed in the options available would be like a traditional cinematographer not caring to know they have a variety of choices in film stock, each with its own qualities, quirks, strengths and limitations.  They wouldn't really be competent in their role if they just grabbed a box of film off the shelf, shot and were either disappointed or pleasantly surprised by the results.  Any overly successful imagery would be through no fault or praise of their own and they would likely be unable to duplicate such efforts if they ever needed to.

Photography/cinematography, like filmmaking in general, like most complicated artistic craft, is also a technical discipline.  It's not either/or if you wish to claim true ownership of your craft.  And if you don't then there's no reason to be discussing it outside a pedestrian list of likes and dislikes, exposition being mostly a selfish exercise when its devoted to gut opinion.

[johnnymossville]

Any info on what lenses were used for the tests.

Also, I read somewhere, maybe on personal-view.com, that one of the cinematographers in the group of shooters chose the GH2 as his favorite look of the bunch.  It would be interesting to hear his reasoning for this.  If cost is an important issue (as it was for me) when starting a rig the choice becomes much easier doesn't it?

[AaronChicago]

I dont agree with statements like "cameras dont matter" "good story is all you need." Some people are camera operators/cinematographers ONLY. That's their job to care about the fine details of a camera. Leave it to a good writer and director to create the good story.

[Andrew Reid]

[quote author=AaronChicago link=topic=738.msg5443#msg5443 date=1337264277]
I dont agree with statements like "cameras dont matter" "good story is all you need." Some people are camera operators/cinematographers ONLY. That's their job to care about the fine details of a camera. Leave it to a good writer and director to create the good story.
[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grRit8dwWuU

Yeah... have to say I agree with you. Since when did a cinematographer also have to become story teller? They're there to service the story, to assist with telling it. They not writer, director, sound guy all rolled into one. The larger the film, the more specialised each role gets. There's some great non-narrative cinematography on Vimeo, and I am tired of people moaning that it lacks a story to be honest. Let's appreciate the art of cinematography in isolation, as well as great content.

But I will say this... hire a good writer!

[lubricated]

[quote author=BurnetRhoades link=topic=738.msg5441#msg5441 date=1337262698]
It's an inherent part of the craft with these tools.  Given the fact that it's an option, as a shooter, not being at least somewhat versed in the options available would be like a traditional cinematographer not caring to know they have a variety of choices in film stock, each with its own qualities, quirks, strengths and limitations.  They wouldn't really be competent in their role if they just grabbed a box of film off the shelf, shot and were either disappointed or pleasantly surprised by the results.  Any overly successful imagery would be through no fault or praise of their own and they would likely be unable to duplicate such efforts if they ever needed to.

Photography/cinematography, like filmmaking in general, like most complicated artistic craft, is also a technical discipline.  It's not either/or if you wish to claim true ownership of your craft.  And if you don't then there's no reason to be discussing it outside a pedestrian list of likes and dislikes, exposition being mostly a selfish exercise when its devoted to gut opinion.
[/quote]


In general, i agree with what you said. As most of us us are all-in-one filmmakers (or people, who have video capture devices is a better description for bigger part) there is a need to cover both creative and tech part. Usually, while creating things you come across technical limitations and then try to figure them out. What i see now is need to shoot things to prove you can do it and that is not filmmaking, it's a tech competition of some sort.

I don't call myself filmmaker, but i hope to be able to one day - when i get that new cool camera:)

[HurtinMinorKey]

My guess is that they didn't include the 5D because they didn't really want the full frame aesthetic to play a role in the comparison.

[Andrew Reid]

[quote author=HurtinMinorKey link=topic=738.msg5448#msg5448 date=1337270364]
My guess is that they didn't include the 5D because they didn't really want the full frame aesthetic to play a role in the comparison.
[/quote]

But the Revenge concept is all about aesthetics...

[Redbaron]

They are already whining over at reduser.net! ....grabbing popcorn 8)

[FilmMan]

Andrew, you have been saying all along about the GH2 picture quality.  Maybe people will understand why a better pictue option should be available for us at a more reasonable cost.  Nothing against Canon, however, many realize they could satisfy the lower end of the market better. 

[Andrew Reid]

[quote author=Redbaron link=topic=738.msg5450#msg5450 date=1337275221]
They are already whining over at reduser.net! ....grabbing popcorn 8)
[/quote]

Hilarious thread so far http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?79297-Hacked-GH2-(choice-over-RED)

[FilmMan]

Good reads at Red. 

Here's some more info on the Camera Shootout.  Not sure if it was posted.

http://www.zacuto.com/shootout-revenge-2012

[Caleb Genheimer]

Yeah, a lot of those guys have their heads lodged fairly far up somewhere or other. I completely believe the guy about it not being well received in Hollywood. Not everyone but a lot of people there (I was only there for a semester, mind you) had some pretty serious BS spewing out their mouths on many things.

Many don't pixel peep. It goes something like "well my friend (so-and-so) worked on (big name project) and he (only uses/hates/made love to) the (C300/Alexa/RED), so I prefer (to not listen to anything you say about codecs because I don't know anything about them)". Pretty hard to convince some of these d-bags to even unstop their ears for a GH2 discussion.

I own a GH2. I know what it can do, and they're placing it in third exactly where I would have expected it to land in a fair test. The FS100 is very good too (shot our short film on one . . . with 18 and 50mm SuperSpeeds. Looked incredible.) The F65 at least on paper quite frankly looks to be in a completely different league from anything else in existence, and for the most part, I trust Sony's paper, they make good stuff that does what they say it can.

Truth is, any of these cameras can look good if you know how to tailor to it. The big differences are in noise/compression, resolution and color. Unless a camera's DR is terrible, you should be able to light for its needs. The thing with the GH2 is, it womps most stuff besides the big boys on the resolution/noise/compression front thanks to the hack. I really am interested to hear specific reasons why they think it has the edge on RED, though.

[Andrew Reid]

In all fairness to Red, had the shootout been projected in 4K the results would probably be quite different!

[rube]

Andrew has been resolute all along with the observations of the GH2...
call it revenge or call it what you like. I call it by saying Andrew has a good eye and tells it like it is!

[markm]

I would not have  rated the GH2 before the new firmware update and Nick Driftwoods settings.
The GH2 is now a wonderful professional quality camera still limited to 8 bit 4,2,0

The new Black Magic Camera fullfills its shortcomings

For the first time 2 reasonably priced cameras that give PRO results. Both at the right customer friendly price and both automatically the choice of indie film makers.

For now that is!

[jaybirch]

I have a hacked GH2... I love it.

But before we all open the champagne.... If it came 3rd place above the C300, Epic and F3.... It has to be down to operator error, poor post or a biased viewer (this is one person's view, right?).

All of those cameras have better resolution, better latitude, better highlight rolloff, better codecs, better low light and similar rolling shutter. They are simply better cameras and, in the right hands, will [b]always[/b] get better results.

This is nothing to be sad about, they are all 20X or more the price of a GH2

[markm]

I would think resolution would be similar. Better codec? I have to disagree with driftwoods hacks. As for latitude and highlight rolloff This all comes under how you use the camera bearing in mind there are limitations.

Those limitations though are in keeping with being Black Magics little spiritual brother!

You want to be a PRO get the BMC you want to be SEMI pro get the GH2.

All other camera choices are either specialist where you pay a MASSIVE premium or just plain overpriced.