I need an affordable lav + recorder

[kaylee]

does this thing suck? is it any good? halp

https://www.amazon.com/Tascam-DR-10L-Recorder-Lavalier-Microphone/dp/B01LZ7UN44/ref=asc_df_B01LZ7UN44/?tag=&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312151212938&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15263891558806619885&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031501&hvtargid=pla-451845228657&ref=&adgrpid=65054436434&th=1

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, kaylee said:

does this thing suck? is it any good? halp

Of course I'd strongly recommend using a wireless instead (as bodypack recorders are an incredibly niche tool, I own one, never used it. Never needed it). Of which the best low budget / prosumer wireless is easily the Sony UWP-D21. 

But for those who do wish to use bodypack recorders, then for a long time the Tascam DR10L (or if  you were outside the evil reaches of the Zaxcom patent lawyers.... the Tascam DR10CS) was quite popular, as it is obviously a massive upgrade over the former approach of lav into a Zoom H1!! (I remember doing that when I was a film school student) While also being massively cheaper than the professional bodypack recorders from Zaxcom or Lectrosonics. (easily over a thousand dollars each)

But times have kept on moving on since then, the Zoom F2-BT got released (which added timecode via bluetooth) and then later on the Tentacle Track E was shipping. (which does it even better, with a timecode crystal integrated within it)

And that is what I'd recommend when going for a bodypack recorder, the Tentacle Track E.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1506356-REG/tentacle_sync_track_e_pocket_audio.html 

[kaylee]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Of course I'd strongly recommend using a wireless instead

ok cool... why? whats the big advantage? im new to wireless audio i have no idea lol

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

the Sony UWP-D21. 

$550 is a wee bit out of my price range for this project...

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Tentacle Track E

ok! im open to whatever, just dont really know what im looking for!

[A_Urquhart]

The audio guys (IronFilm) are going to scoff at me for this suggestion but I've had good experiences with the Rode Wireless Go II on small little projects I've done in the past that have not allowed for more expensive setups. 

The Transmitter records so that if the signal to the receiver drops out (and it doesn't take much to get it to drop out) you still have a 24bit audio recording.

It has quite a few shortcomings, mainly being the non removable recording media so you need to make sure you transfer the files before they get overwritten (7hrs in High Quality 24bit mode), no Timecode support and the requirement of using Rodes rather clunky software to transfer the recordings but if you treat it like a small recorder that can transmit just for monitoring then I think you will be pretty happy with it. Use a slate to mark your takes for easy syncing in post.

I've also used it paired with a Sennheiser HS2 headset microphone to record an exercise instructor and it sounded great. The small, lightweight form factor was a cinch to hide in the instructors active wear....where I don't think I would have been able to use a heavy sennheiser G4 or Sony UWP.

It's also pretty cheap.

What I don't like about recorders that don't transmit like the Tascam, is that you can't monitor the sound so you will not know if the lav capsule is rubbing on clothing or pick up on any other issues you may get. 

Learn the Wireless Go II's limitations and work within them .....used with a good lav I think you'll be surprised with how it can sound.

[newfoundmass]

7 hours ago, kaylee said:

does this thing suck? is it any good? halp

https://www.amazon.com/Tascam-DR-10L-Recorder-Lavalier-Microphone/dp/B01LZ7UN44/ref=asc_df_B01LZ7UN44/?tag=&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312151212938&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15263891558806619885&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031501&hvtargid=pla-451845228657&ref=&adgrpid=65054436434&th=1

It's very popular with wedding videographers in part because it can record a safety track you can use in the event the person mic'd up gets too loud.

If that's your budget ($180) then that's a very good option. You'll get "good enough" audio straight out of it, and even better if you do a little post processing. 

If you do have the budget the Tentacle Track E is a great option, due to the timecode feature and the option to record in 32-bit float, which can be a life saver in the event someone gets too loud. 

[IronFilm]

19 hours ago, kaylee said:

ok cool... why? whats the big advantage? im new to wireless audio i have no idea lol

How are you going to monitor audio otherwise? (how will anybody else on set monitor audio who needs to? Such as the director/client/etc)

Would you ever film anything without a video monitor?? Why do audio like that?

19 hours ago, kaylee said:

$550 is a wee bit out of my price range for this project...

 

Depending on what frequency you need, it is goes for as little as US$466:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1484789-REG/sony_uwp_d21_25_uwp_d21_camera_mount_wireless_omni.html

Or get the older third generation Sony UWP-D21 cheap on eBay. (or even the ancient second gen Sony UWP-V1)

 

19 hours ago, kaylee said:

ok! im open to whatever, just dont really know what im looking for!

What's the project? Tell us as many details. 

[Thpriest]

I had the Tascam and whilst it worked it was good. But… it stopped recording sound one day and since then I’ve never trusted it. I found other people online who have had the same problem. For critical sound you should get something you can monitor.

[MurtlandPhoto]

I have a Tascam DR-10L and love it within its limitations. Lately, the kit I've used for almost everything is the DJI Wireless Mic. Two transmitters and one receiver, onboard recording, mic jack for lavs, good reception, great battery life, charging case, excellent user interface. I really ticks all the boxes for me as a solo run and gun shooter. 

[kaylee]

thanks a lot guys! ive clearly got some research to do...

forgive me, im new to doing audio by myself. i know a lil about post audio, but not much.

@IronFilm i want something super flexible for this little doc project im doing, something where i could use one lav, shooting it myself with different cameras, over a period of time.

its about my friend who is an artist. ideally id like something i could carry with me, so if we were just chatting at her kitchen table i could get it out and shoot a clip with my phone without planning anything

8 hours ago, Thpriest said:

For critical sound you should get something you can monitor.

how would i do that in said situation? would i need headphones, or....? talk to me like im 4 years old lol

[herein2020]

On 11/8/2022 at 12:21 AM, kaylee said:

does this thing suck? is it any good? halp

https://www.amazon.com/Tascam-DR-10L-Recorder-Lavalier-Microphone/dp/B01LZ7UN44/ref=asc_df_B01LZ7UN44/?tag=&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312151212938&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15263891558806619885&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031501&hvtargid=pla-451845228657&ref=&adgrpid=65054436434&th=1

 

I have one of these and I only use it as a secondary mic for weddings. I mic the groom and use a Sennheiser wireless transmitter to the XLR input on my A cam, then I wire a second mic using this Tascam. If the wireless signal drops for some reason I still have a safety track, and the Tascam is set to record a primary track and safety track at -6dB below the first track.

I then add a 3rd recorder to the DJ's or venue mic via an elastic band. Long story short, as @IronFilm stated, there's no way I would trust this or any other setup where I had no way to monitor the audio. However, if you are filming something like a wedding where you only get one chance, then the Tascam is a good backup plan if and only if you also have a primary that you can monitor.

I have heard good things about the Rode Wireless Go II, a friend of mine uses them for all of her weddings, but I don't have any first hand experience with them.

I personally went with the Sennheiser Pro body packs and they have been rock solid. All I do is add the batteries and turn them on, haven't changed a thing since I first bought them. In fact, its been so long since I've been in the menu system I probably at this point shouldn't change anything.  They just work....every single time with no interference or drops.

[herein2020]

9 minutes ago, kaylee said:

thanks a lot guys! ive clearly got some research to do...

forgive me, im new to doing audio by myself. i know a lil about post audio, but not much.

@IronFilm i want something super flexible for this little doc project im doing, something where i could use one lav, shooting it myself with different cameras, over a period of time.

its about my friend who is an artist. ideally id like something i could carry with me, so if we were just chatting at her kitchen table i could get it out and shoot a clip with my phone without planning anything

how would i do that in said situation? would i need headphones, or....? talk to me like im 4 years old lol

 For something that simple you are probably going to want to look at phone bluetooth lav mics. I don't know anything about them but that's where I would start then read the reviews and watch a few YT videos to pick the best one.

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, kaylee said:

thanks a lot guys! ive clearly got some research to do...

forgive me, im new to doing audio by myself. i know a lil about post audio, but not much.

@IronFilm i want something super flexible for this little doc project im doing, something where i could use one lav, shooting it myself with different cameras, over a period of time.

Docos can be a logistical nightmare in terms of managing all the disorganized data, so it is in order. 

Thus a bodypack recorder is a 100% bad idea for you (unless... maybe, if it has timecode. And that the camera always has a timecode box too. This actually makes the bodypack recorder setup more expensive than you think, and closes the price gap vs say a Sony UWP-D21). 

You're better off recording the audio directly to the camera itself, so as to keep it simple for yourself. 

 

2 hours ago, kaylee said:

its about my friend who is an artist. ideally id like something i could carry with me, so if we were just chatting at her kitchen table i could get it out and shoot a clip with my phone without planning anything

Are you going to shoot a lot of it with your cellphone do you reckon?

I'd suggest the Deity Pocket wireless for you. 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1665635-REG/deity_microphones_pwb_pocket_wireless_digital_microphone.html

They're a much higher RF power output than any of the direct competition (*cough* Rode *cough*), has an essential locking 3.5mm connector which again a lot of their competition lacks (*cough* Rode *cough*), and comes with a lav too! Another bonus many of Deity's competitors don't give you. (*cough* Rode *cough*)

 

2 hours ago, kaylee said:

11 hours ago, Thpriest said:

For critical sound you should get something you can monitor.

how would i do that in said situation? would i need headphones, or....? talk to me like im 4 years old lol

Yes, headphones (or even just earphones, is better than nothing!). Hopefully your phone & cameras all have a headphone output?? 

[kaylee]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Are you going to shoot a lot of it with your cellphone do you reckon?

i was thinking about it...

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Hopefully your phone & cameras all have a headphone output?? 

annoyingly, my Note 10 is USB-C only, but my camera does~!

this is complex! jeez!

/a bunch of these things are fairly large, i was thinking of something small enough to be hidden in a buttonhole u kno

kinda gigantic, no??

[Thpriest]

I think Deity has a small directional mic (like the Rode Go) but with a minijack input. This means you could plug in a wireless receiver into that output and in theory have stereo with one track being directional mic and the other the wireless giving you 2 tracks incase anything goes wonky with one. I don't know whether that will work with a phone though, I've only seen people do it with cameras.

[kaylee]

edit: omg im such an idiot... you plug your tiny lav mic into those things 😂 oops lol

[IronFilm]

25 minutes ago, kaylee said:

i was thinking about it...

annoyingly, my Note 10 is USB-C only, but my camera does~!

Hmmm... just widely speculating here, but I wonder if there is some kind of USB-C Hub a person could use together with a USB-C to 3.5mm headphone dongle????

 

25 minutes ago, kaylee said:

kinda gigantic, no??

That's why the Deity Pocket wireless comes with a lav mic as well. You can easily hide that. 

[IronFilm]

7 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

I think Deity has a small directional mic (like the Rode Go) but with a minijack input. This means you could plug in a wireless receiver into that output and in theory have stereo with one track being directional mic and the other the wireless giving you 2 tracks incase anything goes wonky with one. I don't know whether that will work with a phone though, I've only seen people do it with cameras.

Yes, the Deity V-Mic D4 DUO:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1567144-REG/deity_microphones_v_mic_d4_duo_two_way.html

1 minute ago, kaylee said:

edit: omg im such an idiot... you plug your tiny lav mic into those things 😂 oops lol

Bingo!

[kaylee]

3 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Hmmm... just widely speculating here, but I wonder if there is some kind of USB-C Hub a person could use together with a USB-C to 3.5mm headphone dongle????

😂

[IronFilm]

On 11/8/2022 at 11:28 PM, A_Urquhart said:

The audio guys (IronFilm) are going to scoff at me for this suggestion but I've had good experiences with the Rode Wireless Go II on small little projects I've done in the past that have not allowed for more expensive setups. 

I think Rode Go wireless and similar (such as DJI's one) have their place. 
But not on professional shoots. 

For casual hobbyist documentaries? Sure. 

Or a youtuber filming at home? Sure. 

But I'd lean towards recommending the Deity Pocket wireless instead, because:

1) higher RF power output than the Rode Go

2) has a locking connector (which shockingly the Rode Go lacks! That's unacceptable)

3) comes with a free lav mic (and the Rode Go doesn't)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1665635-REG/deity_microphones_pwb_pocket_wireless_digital_microphone.html 

On 11/8/2022 at 11:28 PM, A_Urquhart said:

It has quite a few shortcomings, mainly being the non removable recording media so you need to make sure you transfer the files before they get overwritten (7hrs in High Quality 24bit mode), no Timecode support and the requirement of using Rodes rather clunky software to transfer the recordings but if you treat it like a small recorder that can transmit just for monitoring then I think you will be pretty happy with it. Use a slate to mark your takes for easy syncing in post.

Exactly, the Rode Go has zillions of shortcomings, beyond just simply its unreliability. Don't assume a Rode Go will be a miracle cure to your sound issues. And the Rode Go is unsuitable for professional productions. 

 

On 11/8/2022 at 11:28 PM, A_Urquhart said:

I've also used it paired with a Sennheiser HS2 headset microphone to record an exercise instructor and it sounded great. The small, lightweight form factor was a cinch to hide in the instructors active wear....where I don't think I would have been able to use a heavy sennheiser G4 or Sony UWP.

 

Use a waist strap (or thigh strap) and then I think a Sony UWP (which is a fair bit slimmer than a Sennheiser G4, is 24mm vs 20mm. Yes, the G4 is 20% thicker! ) isn't too hard at all to hide at all to the standard of any lower/mid budget corporate time shoot. 

On 11/8/2022 at 11:28 PM, A_Urquhart said:

What I don't like about recorders that don't transmit like the Tascam, is that you can't monitor the sound so you will not know if the lav capsule is rubbing on clothing or pick up on any other issues you may get. 

Agreed. Many little potential issues that won't get picked up if you're not listening, especially aspects novices might not even realize (such as subtle jiggling jewelry could be very noisy if it is right next to the lav mic!). 

[kaylee]

8 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

But I'd lean towards recommending the Deity Pocket wireless instead

this sounds really good for my purposes!! good deal too. much appreciated!!!