Panasonic S5 II (What does Panasonic have up their sleeve?)

[TomTheDP]

1 hour ago, HockeyFan12 said:

You had a P6K at some point, right? How did you like that compared with the S1, fp, Alexa, etc. I'm looking for a smaller camera/Alexa b camera and Black Magic has really consistent color camera-to-camera it seems so it would be easier for my workflow than the S1 and S1Alex (which works, just not as flexible as shooting braw and using ACES would be for me).

I have not owned the Pocket 6k but have shot with the Pocket 4k and the Alexa side by side. The Pocket 6k is a great camera. I guess I have never been a huge Blackmagic fan. I like the images from their OG cameras however they are just funky to use.

 The new pocket cams just feel cheap compared to Panasonic gear. It is really just my personal bias. Blackmagic is definitely the easiest option for cinema features and codecs for a really cheap price. 

I do like the low light capabilities of the S1 line and the extra dynamic range is also nice to have. I think using color space transform to ACES is a great way to gain better control of WB without having to shoot in RAW. I am not sure how that workflow affects the color accuracy of LUTS, such as the Emotive color Alexa luts. 

The biggest benefit of shooting RAW to me is the ability to fine tune white balance. It is a critical feature when trying to match cameras. With the S1 emotive color got the contrast and roll off really nice but the WB threw off the color when shooting side by side with an actual ARRI ALEXA. An Aces workflow might be a way around that though. 

I think for now I shall stick to the Sigma. It is a great camera, it just requires transcoding for certain NLE's, which isn't the end of the world. 

 

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

On 2/14/2023 at 5:47 AM, John Matthews said:

I'm making a prediction here:

Panasonic is not ready to let go of the LX100 series and they will release a LX100 iii in the next 1-2 months. It will have a GH6 sensor WITHOUT DR Boost and PDAF. It makes sense.

What do you think?

I see no signaling from Panasonic about smaller models. Yes, they said that will make smaller cameras, but always saying that "creators" wants them. Creators = vloggers. And since looks like that Panny wants to niche m43 in video, probably their next camera will be a G100 sucessor - as Sony looks like that their APS-C line will be only ZVs...

Sensor wise, the m43 is kinda muddy now. Have the great 20mp stacked in the OM-1, but is a expensive sensor. Have the 25mp sensor in the GH6, but looks like it was designed from ground up for video (for still, from what I've seen, is worse than the old 20mp sensor). And the current 20mp old sensor. m43 needs a new sensor, 26mp probably (since APS-C upped their pixel count - for me, 20mp is enough), BSI, non-stacked but with good readout. Kinda a m43 version of the 26mp Fuji. But...no rumors about that.

Also, I think that Panasonic is indeed missing a HUGE opportunity regarding the LX100. Everbody paying huge sums for a X100V, and...a LX100 is a much more versatile camera. Still have my LX100 mk I, and for some time I had a X100s; the LX100 trounced it, specially in low light.

Put a better EVF (the G100 one is a good candidate), maybe a slightly larger lens that covers all the sensor, or keep the current one (in a 26mp sensor, would result in a 22mp image), a joystick where the rec button is, move the rec button to the top plate, and you're good to go.

(I look almost everyday for a good used / new price in a LX100 II - is the only camera that will make me sell my LX100)

[John Matthews]

29 minutes ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

I see no signaling from Panasonic about smaller models. Yes, they said that will make smaller cameras, but always saying that "creators" wants them. Creators = vloggers. And since looks like that Panny wants to niche m43 in video, probably their next camera will be a G100 sucessor - as Sony looks like that their APS-C line will be only ZVs...

Sensor wise, the m43 is kinda muddy now. Have the great 20mp stacked in the OM-1, but is a expensive sensor. Have the 25mp sensor in the GH6, but looks like it was designed from ground up for video (for still, from what I've seen, is worse than the old 20mp sensor). And the current 20mp old sensor. m43 needs a new sensor, 26mp probably (since APS-C upped their pixel count - for me, 20mp is enough), BSI, non-stacked but with good readout. Kinda a m43 version of the 26mp Fuji. But...no rumors about that.

Also, I think that Panasonic is indeed missing a HUGE opportunity regarding the LX100. Everbody paying huge sums for a X100V, and...a LX100 is a much more versatile camera. Still have my LX100 mk I, and for some time I had a X100s; the LX100 trounced it, specially in low light.

Put a better EVF (the G100 one is a good candidate), maybe a slightly larger lens that covers all the sensor, or keep the current one (in a 26mp sensor, would result in a 22mp image), a joystick where the rec button is, move the rec button to the top plate, and you're good to go.

(I look almost everyday for a good used / new price in a LX100 II - is the only camera that will make me sell my LX100)

Sounds like you're a LX100 fan. I wanted to get that camera a couple of times, but I always held back a bit due to dust getting in the lens. Also, I now have all the pancakes available: 14mm, 20mm, 12-32, 14-42 PZ, and 14-42 EZ... am I missing one? I still lack the Olympus 17mm f/2.8 (which seems like a decent lens). Tomorrow, I'll be picking up a G100 as my GX800 died (dropped it during a xmas family photo shoot, screen's gone). I really hope the next one will be a G100 ii. YouTubers hated the first one as a vlogging camera. I think Panasonic would admit to their marketing errors with that release. Personally, I cannot wait to get it. I feel like the GH6 sucked all the fun out of room. It lacks so many of the photography features that the G100 has (live composite and 4k photo to name 2). Due to the Youtubers trying to vlog with it, most of the video footage online looks like crap, but I'm certain that's no the case when you lock it down. Also, it had a big firmware update just after it came out and the continuous af was much more usable.

Concerning the GH6 for photography, you have to be super careful shoot it like a jpeg, but in 14 bit raw. If you do, you'll be pleasantly surprised. It's not a camera where you simple expose for the highlights. If anything, expose for the shadows. I don't really care about the sensor size or megapixels, 12mp is more than enough for me. Still, the GH6 performs voodoo cellphone magic with their 100mp handheld high res mode. IMO, it blows away (in detail) any sub $2000 camera for slow-moving landscape and portraiture... but it's slow. Maybe Panasonic have a completely different sensor ready to go. After all, no one predicted the GH6 sensor.

[hyalinejim]

Latest update of Camera RAW and Lightroom adds support for S5II RAW photos 🙂

[MrSMW]

Didn't Panasonic announce they were NOT going to be making any more compact cameras?

Or has that decision been reversed?

I wouldn't say no to an LX100iii if I was looking for a compact...

Anyway, I've been spending money on lenses 🤪

I've had the Meike 50mm T2.1 for EF with the Fotodiox EF-L VND adapter for a while and used it a few times and liked it except for the size and weight, the latter especially which with the adaptor makes the total weight of 2.8lbs or 1.25kg...which is a bit weighty all day long off a camera strap along with a pair of S1Rs!! And that is 2.8lbs/1.25kg on top of the weight of the S1H which is already about the same on it's own.

So I stopped using it partly because of that and partly because it was only one focal length.

But the other day, I started watching a few 'budget' cine lens reviews and came across the 7Artisans APSC T1.05 range.

These looked good...but then I found the smaller and lighter T2.0 'Vision' range and a set of 3; 35mm, 50mm and 85mm for 1250 dollars delivered.

Button pushed. I will probably have to pay some import duty but still, a bit of a bargain for a set like that.

So when they turn up, that is final final FINAL line up of bodies and lenses for this year which will be:

Stills (plus if needs be, some additional video B roll)

S1R + Sigma 16-28mm f2.8 (indoor) or 28-70mm f2.8 (outdoor)

S1R + Sigma 85mm f1.4

Video

S5ii + Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 (APSC lens) on gimbal and static duty

S1H + 35/50/85mm T2.0 cine lenses for all other filming work.

I would still like to end up with 3 identical bodies at some point as it will make several aspects of my work so much easier, but for now at least, this should be a 'perfect' combo for me and my specific needs.

S1H successor with PDAF...?? 🤩

[MrSMW]

‘Spectrum’ not ‘Vision’ which are the faster, but cropped versions 🙈

[MrSMW]

Possibly just my imagination, but the S5ii seems to have an even higher build quality?

Just setting it up and noticed a few other minor updates such as the better placement of the LCD/viewfinder auto sensor and of course it has the fan, plus the 30 min recording limit lifted (in most modes) so isn’t all about the AF!

[92F]

https://www.cined.com/panasonic-lumix-s5-ii-lab-test-rolling-shutter-dynamic-range-and-latitude/

[Kisaha]

"From a pure lab test perspective, it seems that there is no gain without pain: the new LUMIX S5 II has nice new features including solid autofocus, but unfortunately in the lab, it falls a bit behind the previous generation, the S5 – when pushed to the absolute extreme, to keep things in perspective.

Not only is the rolling shutter worse (1ms more in full frame, 1.8ms more in APS-C), also the latitude result is not as good – it finishes with 7 stops of exposure latitude, mainly because of banding artifacts in the shadows and a more blotchy noise pattern which doesn’t look as pleasing to the eye.

That said, the dynamic range results are very similar to the previous generation LUMIX S5."

I would expect exactly the opposite, slight improvements on those numbers..hm..

[FHDcrew]

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

"From a pure lab test perspective, it seems that there is no gain without pain: the new LUMIX S5 II has nice new features including solid autofocus, but unfortunately in the lab, it falls a bit behind the previous generation, the S5 – when pushed to the absolute extreme, to keep things in perspective.

Not only is the rolling shutter worse (1ms more in full frame, 1.8ms more in APS-C), also the latitude result is not as good – it finishes with 7 stops of exposure latitude, mainly because of banding artifacts in the shadows and a more blotchy noise pattern which doesn’t look as pleasing to the eye.

That said, the dynamic range results are very similar to the previous generation LUMIX S5."

I would expect exactly the opposite, slight improvements on those numbers..hm..

Maybe the ever so slightly decreased latitude is that quality decrease Panasonic kept saying when they tried to defend doing with Dirt-From-Defocus AF 😂 

[MrSMW]

Lab test 🤔

The result may very well be the result but it’s only real world use case that I am personally interested in.

I’m sure lab tests are of most interest to serial brand swappers who flip their camera bodies on a regular basis.

I bought mine for the AF and fan and as long as the rest is ‘real world’ more or less the same as the old S5, that’s good enough for me.

[MrSMW]

Another thing that made me laugh about dry boring lab tests, is I had literally just watched a 6 minute film that someone had shot and CRAFTED using the S5ii.

The camera was just one component and pretty much ANY camera of the last 10 years would have produced a near identical result.

But anyway... 🤪

[Beritar]

5 hours ago, FHDcrew said:

Maybe the ever so slightly decreased latitude is that quality decrease Panasonic kept saying when they tried to defend doing with Dirt-From-Defocus AF 😂 

From my experience (I have the camera since a month), the latitude is not the only downgrade, detail rendering (less in V-Log) and motion quality are also worse than the S1 and S5. But a lot of people will not see the difference, especially those who shoot in a very well controled environnement and those for whom 1080P is enough quality.

[newfoundmass]

I don't care about lab tests at all, I care about real world performance. The noise reduction is a much bigger issue than any lab test. Hopefully Panasonic fixes that in a firmware update, because I should be able to control the level of NR that's going on.

[Jordan Garcia]

A little off-topic but all the lenses that I own for my S5 are manual focus, but I'm looking to purchase one AF lens primarily for stills. I'm thinking of leaning towards a 50mm prime. Does anyone have any suggestions for their favorite budgeted <$1000?

[Beritar]

13 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I don't care about lab tests at all, I care about real world performance. The noise reduction is a much bigger issue than any lab test. Hopefully Panasonic fixes that in a firmware update, because I should be able to control the level of NR that's going on.

If you shoot V-log there is almost zero noise reduction on the S5II, however I still prefer the V-log image coming from the S5/S1.
But yes Panasonic really need to fix the image quality with the standard profiles.

[zerocool22]

Will do a S5 - S5II comparison later on, if you guys want me to test something specific let me know. 

[hyalinejim]

2 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

if you guys want me to test something specific let me know. 

I would love to see a colour chart shot with the same lens, lighting and settings on each in V-Log. There seems to be considerable variation in colour between some Panasonic models (GH series) and I'm wondering if the same is true for S5 and S5II

[zerocool22]

3 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

I would love to see a colour chart shot with the same lens, lighting and settings on each in V-Log. There seems to be considerable variation in colour between some Panasonic models (GH series) and I'm wondering if the same is true for S5 and S5II

Sorry I don't own a colour chart. I could maybe print one 😄

[hyalinejim]

12 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

Sorry I don't own a colour chart

You could load this up on your monitor in a dark room and shoot the screen! It doesn't need to be accurate to the actual values of a ColorChecker, it's just to make a comparison between cameras.