Panasonic S5 II (What does Panasonic have up their sleeve?)

[MrSMW]

The 70-200 f4 though counters with not being as big or heavy as the f2.8, but keeps the internal non-extending zoom and constant aperture, but is slightly bigger and heavier than the 70-300. If you don’t need that extra 100mm.

F4 with modern high ISO capable cameras make it for me the sweet spot for L Mount and I really rate this lens.

Used prices are quite decent and I paid around 1000 euros for mine from MPB.

Along with the Sigma 28-70mm f2.8, these have been my two workhorse lenses all year…and will remain so if I do not go to Nikon for video as well as stills.

And if that happens, two even better lenses; Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 G2 and 70-180mm f2.8 G2…which will at least change focal distance in the same direction!

Lumix is the opposite of Sigma 🤪

Which is another one of those annoying little things that all add up when you have mere critical seconds…

[ntblowz]

21 hours ago, MrSMW said:

 

And if that happens, two even better lenses; Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 G2 and 70-180mm f2.8 G2…which will at least change focal distance in the same direction!

Lumix is the opposite of Sigma 🤪

Which is another one of those annoying little things that all add up when you have mere critical seconds…

Well Sigma is operating the same as Canon! But doesn't make RF lens..  so it is the odd one out.

[MrSMW]

It’s not all about the lenses, but they are the primary driver for me these days for sure.

 

[PannySVHS]

So, is there a way to lock the freaggin shutter button during video recording on the S1H? I accidently stopped recording during handheld filming, fortunately only for a few seconds. @MrSMW Other than that, I again loved the experience using the camera in a semipro context, filming a pretty kewl performance. Only thing I would really want would be punsh-in focus aid during recording. Missed focus a couple times. Btw, I had my S1 on sticks as a second cam for the master shot. Great sturdy two cam setup, super powerful but slim codec, unlimited recording, small for what it can provide. But my S1 has to go or does it?:)

[MrSMW]

I don’t know and have never considered it…

I always move the record video function to the main shutter button and use the video record button as an fn.

I assume you have the red box on record set up?

But apart from that, I have hit record before in a fast paced situation only to discover I didn’t…or double-tapped…or am actually stopping the recording but have a minute or so of blurry footage of the ground 🤪

The S1H plus the S5ii are a super good combo for video which is why I have a bit of a dilemma when it comes to shooting hybrid in 2024 and going forward. 

[ac6000cw]

On 11/18/2023 at 9:21 PM, MrSMW said:

And if that happens, two even better lenses; Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 G2 and 70-180mm f2.8 G2…which will at least change focal distance in the same direction!

Lumix is the opposite of Sigma 🤪

Which is another one of those annoying little things that all add up when you have mere critical seconds…

14 hours ago, ntblowz said:

Well Sigma is operating the same as Canon! But doesn't make RF lens..  so it is the odd one out.

Panasonic versus Olympus/OMDS micro4/3 lenses are another example of opposite zoom rings on the same mount...

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, ac6000cw said:

Panasonic versus Olympus/OMDS micro4/3 lenses are another example of opposite zoom rings on the same mount...

It's a bit of a 'first world problem' but a bit of a PITA when you are juggling multiple bodies and lenses.

I've reached that point where though I am a prime man at heart, fast zooms make more sense (and a principle reason why I have struggled a bit with L Mount for hybrid work) but opposing direction zooms definitely slow you down as do the layout and ergos of different bodies.

The latter is the specific reason I hoped to go to 3x S5ii bodies, - so it was one less thing and I am not sure now whether I will ever get to having all the same bodies, but if I can at least get the zooms rotating in the same direction, it will be something!

 

[John Matthews]

My Priorities for Panasonic:

1) Release a VERY SMALL M43 camera body with PDAF and full-sensor readout in 4k NOW!

2) Release a GH7 with variable ND and PDAF.

3) Release a high-end video camera with variable ND and PDAF for L mount.

4) Release a pancake (28mm or 40mm or both) lens for L mount.

[IronFilm]

10 hours ago, John Matthews said:

2) Release a GH7 with variable ND and PDAF.

With a multi aspect ratio sensor!

And BNC (or mini BNC at least) for both TC and SDI? Maybe even a mini-XLR or two with phantom power built in. 

[MrSMW]

I don’t have a problem with the bodies available in L Mount, but the lenses.

I could even have lived with the S5ii for stills had there been the lenses.

I have realised in the last few months that my wrestling match with my kit over the last couple of years has been lens and not body based.

 No fan of the S5ii shutter button feel or sound, but had there been the equivalent of anything like; Canon’s 28-70 f2, the new 24-105 f2.8, Tamron’s 35-150 f2-2.8 or 70-180 f2.8, it would very much be happy days for me.

When I learned of the Sigma 70-200 f2.8 and that it was going to be light and relatively compact, I was pretty disappointed to find out that whilst optically, folks say it’s better than the Lumix equivalent, it’s barely shorter and still 1.35kg.

But hey, MrSMW, have you not said repeatedly and above that you are a big fan of 2x 1kg+ lenses from Canon?

Yes I have and stand by that because of the focal lengths which to me would be useable all day long 100% of the time.

70-200 is not especially a range I need.

Up to 100 or thereabouts is and then something around 150, but longer, not really, so something like a 150 or 180 prime could work…but something like the Tamron 70-180 makes more sense being just as fast as any typical prime of this length (anything even available in L Mount I don’t know without looking?), is well under 1kg and relatively compact for such a focal range.

Bodies, I would have liked to have seen an S2H and an S2R but I’d still have the lens issues.

[seanzzxx]

I mean the 28-70 f2 and 24-105 2.8 are not available on E mount, Z mount, EF, F, and so on, yet millions of professionals still manage to work within that 'limitation'. If you need those lenses THAT bad, switch to RF, but it seems like a weird thing to hold against the L mount line up?

[MrSMW]

Need and want/would like, are two different things.

There is nothing ‘weird’ about it at all.

I switched from Fuji to L Mount 2 full seasons ago and have not fully got on with it.

Lately, I worked out it was because for my needs, I couldn’t get the right combo of lenses per number of bodies factoring actual use case.

Canon make them in RF Mount. I can’t justify or afford moving in that direction.

Nothing weird about any of that.

[seanzzxx]

But how would a 28-70 2.8 improve your photography/videography over a 24-70 2.8? I'm genuinely asking, I've had multiple photographers at work who shoot Canon rent it, try it out, and NOT buy it because it's 1) really really really massive and 2) the 4mm on the wide end is actually more useful than a stop of extra light. I'm not being argumentative, I'm genuinely curious, because it sounds a bit like GAS to me.

[ade towell]

I think the low DR with the video on Canon mirrorless cameras is also quite disappointing if you're coming from Panasonic - have gone from Canon R6 to the Panasonic S5ii and the increase in DR is noticeable. Had to use the S5ii alongside a Canon R5 recently and the Canon was struggling to keep up. Not sure if DR has been improved in the R3 but I doubt it  

[newfoundmass]

11 hours ago, seanzzxx said:

But how would a 28-70 2.8 improve your photography/videography over a 24-70 2.8? I'm genuinely asking, I've had multiple photographers at work who shoot Canon rent it, try it out, and NOT buy it because it's 1) really really really massive and 2) the 4mm on the wide end is actually more useful than a stop of extra light. I'm not being argumentative, I'm genuinely curious, because it sounds a bit like GAS to me.

A f2 will give you an extra stop of light over a f2.8. That can be quite handy when you're a wedding or event shooter. I suspect that's the primary reason why he'd want it.

[MrSMW]

3 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

A f2 will give you an extra stop of light over a f2.8. That can be quite handy when you're a wedding or event shooter. I suspect that's the primary reason why he'd want it.

In a nutshell. It’s a 28mm and 70mm f2 ‘prime’ lens at the flick of a wrist, mainly for indoor work.

On that basis alone, for my specific needs, juggling stills and video all day long and having to carry and set up lighting and maybe mic up to 5 people at any one time, fast and portable is key.

It’s a fat lump of a lens indeed at 1430g and really needs an integrated battery grip for balance and ergos and Canon also happen to have the lightest integrated grip body in the R3 at a tad over 1kg making a combined weight of just under 2.5kg.

2.5kg is no lightweight and I’d prefer lighter, but it does not exist at this level of capability all factors considered and is 300-350g lighter than the ‘equivalent’ unit I have been running all year, an S1H with battery grip with Leica 24-90mm f2.8-4

The R3 can also shoot internally 6k 50/60p raw and I’d very much like to explore extracting stills from 6 or 8k video as it opens up another creative and streamlining (volume of tools) option and 4k 50/60p is not good enough and 6k 25/30p no good if I want any decent slow mo.

Then factor in f2 vs f2.8 and f4 and that is a HUGE difference in light gathering and creative DOF options.

But not as wide, 24 vs 28 or as long 70 vs 90, but as someone who doesn’t like shooting wider than 28 (and if so, around 20mm is my preference) and longer, the second camera covers that option so not an issue.

The bottom line is I am not a Canon fanboy and this combo of body and lens may not be for everyone and probably only a minority with the key compromises of weight and cost, but I could live with the former compromise if the latter one was not a deal-breaking factor.

I have never owned nor may never own anything from the brand and if I ever do, it will not be any time soon as the cost is…well as mentioned above, circa 18k without trade in and I can’t justify that.

It is also just one of 3 principle options either actually available or at least theoretically available.

All of my options are best on my current best practice which also mentioned multiple times is based on my needs and my experience with no manual available on how to achieve what I need to achieve other than trial and error.

The 3 principle options are:

1. The 2 camera/2 lens approach which is the most minimalist one, but would require the highest investment and the only brand that can best tick this box currently, is Canon. It only has one weakness in that it really needs a third lens as my pairing of 28-70 and 24-105 does not allow for anything longer than 105.

Canon R3 with 28-70mm f2

Canon R3 with 24-105mm f2.8

2. The 3 camera/3 lens approach which is arguably better than the one above as with my choices it allows for lighter units and covers the requirement for the longer lens. And is MUCH cheaper.

This is the set up I am debating:

Nikon Zf with 40mm f2

Nikon Z6iii with 20-40mm f2.8

Nikon Z6iii with 70-180mm f2.8

3. The 4 camera/5 lens option which requires the most amount of kit as it separates video units from stills units, is the cheapest set up (as I own most of it already with just one body required) and the most familiar, at least on the video side and comprises:

S1H + 70-200mm f4 video

S5ii + 28-70mm f2.8 video

Nikon Zf + 40mm f2 stills

Nikon Z8 + 20-40mm and 70-180mm f2.8

It boils down in the end to: ‘needs’ + ‘wants’ + use case practicality + cost and on that basis, Option 01 has to remain an ‘ideal’ but because it really requires a third lens, a 20k impossibility.

Options 2&3 are almost equally viable and the cost difference is negligible so comes down to which set up I’d prefer and Option 02 makes the most sense because of the cross compatibility, true hybrid nature of that set up.

To conclude, specifically regarding these Canon lens ‘choices’, they simply did not exist until the last couple of years. Or weeks even on the case of the 24-105 f2.8

Things were quite a bit different in 2019 and none of us knew what was coming in 2020 or 2021 with Covid and then having an exhausting 150% volume year in 2022, made for a terrible time for changing system in so many ways, but these were the cards I (and others in their own unique ways) were dealt.

2023 has very much been a year of ‘settling down’ and fettling the system I had and has not in any way been a bad year, or system kit-wise, just not the best one for me going forward.

I hate change. I like stability and I am not a gambler by nature, but more a strategic conservative player and the absolute bottom line in all of this for me is…

Could I continue solely with L Mount in 2024?

Of course, but with all the workarounds and niggles that I have with the system, mainly around lenses.

Or I can choose to make some changes that will benefit me which is the path I have chosen.

Of course better kit becomes available year on year and there will be further changes down the line, but as someone who has finally worked out the formula for what I specifically do, that learning curve and need to experiment has been massively flattened out to the point where I can for the first time, make much more informed decisions.

[BTM_Pix]

On 11/15/2023 at 2:20 AM, newfoundmass said:

5. This one is most important: I just want you all to know I love you all. My ordeal has given me a greater appreciation for life, the interactions I have with other human beings, and just everything, really. Thank you @Andrew Reid and everyone else that makes this place special.

Sorry to hear about your medical issues and great to hear you are on the road to recovery.

I echo your thoughts about this place.

My last few weeks have been spent at my Mother’s bedside as she drifted away to her passing.

In times like that of huge change and trauma we look for constants to keep us connected to “normal” life.

In that respect, checking into here every now and again to find everyone having the same circular arguments was oddly comforting.

And I honestly mean that with love.

[ac6000cw]

On 11/20/2023 at 4:04 PM, John Matthews said:

My Priorities for Panasonic:

1) Release a VERY SMALL M43 camera body with PDAF and full-sensor readout in 4k NOW!

2) Release a GH7 with variable ND and PDAF.

3) Release a high-end video camera with variable ND and PDAF for L mount.

4) Release a pancake (28mm or 40mm or both) lens for L mount.

I'd also love them to do 1), but I can imagine some of the YouTube influencer/reviewer comments:

• It's expensive
• It overheats recording 4k60p after 10 minutes
• if it's really small and light - "There's no IBIS"
• If it's got IBIS - "It's not small enough and it's too heavy"
• The battery life is too short
• It doesn't have a fully articulated/flip out screen
• There's no headphone jack

Most of the above list would not actually be issues for the vast majority of potential buyers if it was cheap enough, but it would be a hard sell if it's almost as expensive as a G9ii

Maybe the answer would be to market it as a Leica camera?

[John Matthews]

4 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

Most of the above list would not actually be issues for the vast majority of potential buyers if it was cheap enough, but it would be a hard sell if it's almost as expensive as a G9ii

Speaking of the G9 ii:

• It's too expensive;
• It's too big;
• It's not good enough in low-light (meaning high-ISO);
• It's too sharp;
• It doesn't have shallow depth of field;
• It doesn't have that "full-frame look".
• Do you really want to "invest" in M43?
• Other full-frame sensor cameras are the same price or cheaper.

And on and on we go. I don't think there's any way to universally "win". In fact, I don't think any manufacturer has any real incentive to make the "perfect" camera. If they did, why would you ever buy anything else?

[MrSMW]

8 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

In that respect, checking into here every now and again to find everyone having the same circular arguments was oddly comforting.

Nothing short of total armageddon will change that.

Your Leica Q3 vs my VW Golf GTi. Fight me.