D Verco Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Can someone explain the hype?I'm glad Panasonic finally have AF, but it looks very similar to the xh2s but with worse rolling shutter and an unusable hdmi lag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Verco Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 6 hours ago, Amazeballs said: Camera conspiracies This guy hasn't made any quality work ever. At least Gerald has the technical side down. This guys has neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 3 hours ago, newfoundmass said: I won't post the video because I know Andrew really, really doesn't like him, but Tony Northrup tested the S5II's autofocus with the Sigma EF to L adapter and it worked really well. Watching the microwave over his shoulder after he put on the 24/1.4L, it sure looked a bit like it was pulsing to me, similar to what I'd expect from their previous cameras with DFD. It's not a surprise since (as far as I know), the MC-21 doesn't advertise supporting PDAF with Canon lenses and I'd be shocked if it did. I'd be less shocked if it supported it with Sigma EF lenses. I seem to recall that the MC-11 supported PDAF with Sigma lenses on Sony E, but I ditched all of my Sony stuff a while ago. It's not to say it's really bad - DFD has worked pretty well on their last generation or two of camera, but "slightly better DFD" is far from a compelling reason to go S5II if you use EF lenses. At that point, I'd just find a used S5 for $1k or so. With that said, some folks like Steelsring and Fringer have lenses that support PDAF with Canon lenses on Fuji bodies - presumably whatever profiling they had to do there would be fairly easily translated to L mount, assuming that they can produce electronic L mount adapters without getting sued. Once that's done, I'll be very strongly considering selling one or two of my existing cameras and switching over to the S5 IIx (maybe the timing will work out since I think the x doesn't ship until May or so). 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 6 hours ago, Amazeballs said: I feel like most of youtubers generally love this camera. Good for Pana, good for everyone. Win win. Keep in mind that those same YouTubers will keep saying over and over again how they aren't being paid for the review... but also that they all know that if they don't say mostly nice things about the camera, they won't get free flights/hotels in Japan, a loaner camera + $20k in loaner lenses, or have a camera to make a video before launch day the next time. The reviews are biased and are part of the Panasonic sales strategy. Wait until real users and smaller channels start receiving the camera. Right now, it's all part of a hype machine to drive preorders. Panasonic have a long history of delivering excellent hybrid cameras and there's no reason to think that this one will be any different, but NEVER trust launch day YouTube reviews for any camera. Davide DB and Emanuel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 26 minutes ago, D Verco said: This guy hasn't made any quality work ever. At least Gerald has the technical side down. This guys has neither. It's a comedy channel where the host does wildlife photography which almost entirely consists of the squirrels in his neighborhood and where he renamed "bokeh" to "toneh" to make fun of Mr. Northrup going too far with shallow DOF. If you're upset that he goes light on the technical details and doesn't produce Roger Deakins-level cinematography, I think you've missed the point. (And I definitely enjoyed Kasey's video as a standout in a sea of people reading spec sheets and basically shooting the exact same video as every other channel who got invited to Japan) Kisaha, Samin, Amazeballs and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 17 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said: Watching the microwave over his shoulder after he put on the 24/1.4L, it sure looked a bit like it was pulsing to me, similar to what I'd expect from their previous cameras with DFD. It's not a surprise since (as far as I know), the MC-21 doesn't advertise supporting PDAF with Canon lenses and I'd be shocked if it did. I'd be less shocked if it supported it with Sigma EF lenses. I seem to recall that the MC-11 supported PDAF with Sigma lenses on Sony E, but I ditched all of my Sony stuff a while ago. Maybe we watched different videos, because I didn't notice much, if any pulsing at all. There was focus breathing, which was more obvious than when he was using native lenses, but that has more to do with the Canon lens and the fact that Tony insists on shooting wide open due to his love of toneh. 44 minutes ago, D Verco said: This guy hasn't made any quality work ever. At least Gerald has the technical side down. This guys has neither. He's funny when he's not being an anti-vax/conspiracy weirdo. I've actually learned a bit watching him use cameras that he doesn't completely know how to use, as it has helped show limitations other channels overlook, among other things. PannySVHS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Verco Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 You might enjoy his comedy but it's a cop out to excuse his garbage reviews as comedy. Walking around the suburbs with a camera at arms length, squinting at a 3" screen doesn't qualify as real world usage or review worthy. 32 minutes ago, newfoundmass said: anti-vax/conspiracy weirdo lol actually that just tells you everything you need to know SMGJohn and Rivhop 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeDaZzA Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 6 hours ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said: Indeed - even worse than previous Panasonics. Hope it could be better with a firmware update. I think it must just be a pre-production problem; I don't think they'd release something that's basically unusable with an external monitor, especially after all the complaints of the heavy lag on the previous cameras. Apparently subject detection is disabled at 5.9/6k over HDMI too but I could live with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 Truly incredible camera, they took what was already my favorite camera and made it perfect by fixing the AF. I do hope its not too little too late. If that AF system had shipped with the original S5 there is a strong possibility I would be all in on Panasonic right now for both photos and video. I am still not sure though if CAF works with the Canon EF adapter, if not then EF lens owners would still need to buy L mount lenses to really take advantage of the AF. I watched Gerald Undone's review of the S5II, the one big thing I wish he had tested was the additional stability option which was Boot IS option which I believe uses AI and additional processing for stability. I really wanted to see if it was anywhere near GoPro's level of stability. I think the perfect hybrid might finally exist and it is the S5II, my absolute only gripe would be having to buy L mount lenses and for me having already gone all in on Canon its too late for me to turn around. It is definitely a great time to be a photographer and/or videographer no matter what system you choose. PannySVHS and Kisaha 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 49 minutes ago, herein2020 said: Truly incredible camera, they took what was already my favorite camera and made it perfect by fixing the AF. I do hope its not too little too late. If that AF system had shipped with the original S5 there is a strong possibility I would be all in on Panasonic right now for both photos and video. I am still not sure though if CAF works with the Canon EF adapter, if not then EF lens owners would still need to buy L mount lenses to really take advantage of the AF. I watched Gerald Undone's review of the S5II, the one big thing I wish he had tested was the additional stability option which was Boot IS option which I believe uses AI and additional processing for stability. I really wanted to see if it was anywhere near GoPro's level of stability. I think the perfect hybrid might finally exist and it is the S5II, my absolute only gripe would be having to buy L mount lenses and for me having already gone all in on Canon its too late for me to turn around. It is definitely a great time to be a photographer and/or videographer no matter what system you choose. Did you watch the Tony Northrup video? He used the Canon 24-70 f2.8 with the Sigma adapter, and it worked really well I thought. He moved back and forth, did the "put the object in front of the camera to focus" deal all these people love (that I hate), and had it wide open because he's all about da TONEH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 2 hours ago, D Verco said: You might enjoy his comedy but it's a cop out to excuse his garbage reviews as comedy. Walking around the suburbs with a camera at arms length, squinting at a 3" screen doesn't qualify as real world usage or review worthy. He openly admits he has no clue what he's doing. 🤷🏻♂️ Samin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 Again, I won't post the video cause I know Andrew isn't fond of him, but Kai W. also did tests with the Sigma adapter and Canon EF lenses and the results were excellent. It's at about the 22 minute mark in his video. Quite impressive. Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 4 hours ago, newfoundmass said: Maybe we watched different videos, because I didn't notice much, if any pulsing at all. There was focus breathing, which was more obvious than when he was using native lenses, but that has more to do with the Canon lens and the fact that Tony insists on shooting wide open due to his love of toneh. He's funny when he's not being an anti-vax/conspiracy weirdo. I've actually learned a bit watching him use cameras that he doesn't completely know how to use, as it has helped show limitations other channels overlook, among other things. I saw some of what looked (to me) like pulsing, but as I said, it seemed pretty consistent with their other more recent DFD cameras - and that's not a bad thing. DFD on their more recent cameras got dangerously close to usable (from what I've seen). You're right that it's also worse/more noticeable with an f/1.4 lens. It'll be interesting for sure to see I'm wrong and the MC-21 actually supports PDAF in some way (as far as I can tell, it does not support it on my Sigma FP-L, but the FP-L is also one of the quirkiest cameras I've ever owned). Anyway, having PDAF on a popular L mount camera that's probably gonna sell a lot is likely to inspire one of the adapter makers to make it work with EF mount lenses. 🙂 As far as CC being an anti-vax/conspiracy weirdo, I've always assumed that was part of the joke. I'd be really bummed if it turns out that's serious... 4 hours ago, D Verco said: You might enjoy his comedy but it's a cop out to excuse his garbage reviews as comedy. Walking around the suburbs with a camera at arms length, squinting at a 3" screen doesn't qualify as real world usage or review worthy. Humor is subjective, of course. I'm not gonna bother arguing beyond that. 🙂 24 minutes ago, newfoundmass said: Again, I won't post the video cause I know Andrew isn't fond of him, but Kai W. also did tests with the Sigma adapter and Canon EF lenses and the results were excellent. It's at about the 22 minute mark in his video. Quite impressive. I'm still subscribed to Kai, but a lot of his stuff hasn't been doing it for me lately so I end up skipping a lot - and given that like 4 of my other subs already had up long-form reviews of the camera (which were largely redundant after I watched the first one!), I didn't bother. I'll go check out the AF section after writing this comment, though! newfoundmass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 For me, the most important thing is that Panasonic continues to invest in their FF bodies, improve their functionality and have plans to stay in photo / hybrids business. That alone is no small feat with heavy weights like Canon and Sony on the side and constantly shrinking sales. At one point in time started to doubt my investment in 3 Sigma L mount lenses and 2 Panasonic FF bodies. Not anymore 😀 They solved a major bottleneck and hopefully their bodies and L Mount will get more sales and popularity. Sigma and Leica for sure will follow and this gives L mount much more chances to survive and even thrive in this very difficult business. For my type of work, the lack of tracking AF for video has never been an issue or I wouldn't have invested into the system 😀 However PDAF + some other improvements that S5 II has are worthy for an upgrade - PDAF and tracking video AF - nice to have - Full HDMI port - Improved viewfinder - better compatibility with Canon EOS mount lenses. Richard Wong also says that Sigma MC21 + Canon EF lenses = continuous video auto focus with Lumix S5II - There is some confusion will regular Panasonic S5 II get external RAW video recording with additional 200$ upgrade. Some places and reviewers say yes, others say no. Hopefully Panasonic would keep this as paid option available for the S5 II too and not only for S5 II X. Hopefully they also keep BRAW option for external recording too. Was surprised to see so much youtubers in Tokyo and most of them were never into Panasonic system. No doubt this is a massive advertising campaign with loaner bodies and lenses, etc.. Another good sign that Panasonic makes all the efforts to stay relevant in this very difficult business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 hour ago, newfoundmass said: Again, I won't post the video cause I know Andrew isn't fond of him, but Kai W. also did tests with the Sigma adapter and Canon EF lenses and the results were excellent. It's at about the 22 minute mark in his video. Quite impressive. Yeah, that's looking really good on Kai's video - at least in terms of tracking. I didn't notice any pulsing, but on the other hand, nearly every clip/edit of that part of the video was only about 2 seconds long and with a lot of movement. The pulsing is easiest to see when the subject is sitting mostly still. In any case, it's a bit surprising that it works at all, given that Sigma mention at least 3 times on the product page for the MC-21 that CAF isn't supported. https://www.sigma-global.com/en/accessories/mc-21/#main-feature They also mention that lens data for supported lenses is pre-loaded in the adapter which might mean that PDAF "just works" for them (though the supported lens list is all Sigma lenses) - I'm definitely no expert in PDAF implementation, but I know that with my Steelsring, it only supported a few lenses for PDAF in the first release supporting it and then a subsequent release supported more and they made some comment about having to profile the lenses. I didn't care enough to learn more than "apparently some lens information is needed for PDAF to work right." 🙂 I also just learned that Sigma released new firmware for the MC-21 about 2 weeks ago after not having released new firmware since June of 2020. Guess I have a project for this weekend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 According to CVP's review Panasonic S5 II PDAF auto focus in video is still behind Sony and Canon. According to them auto focus with Sigma MC21 + Canon EF lenses is no different than auto focus with native lenses https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VPQoWRS0l4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 51 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said: As far as CC being an anti-vax/conspiracy weirdo, I've always assumed that was part of the joke. I'd be really bummed if it turns out that's serious... I used to think so too, but he'd refuse to wear a mask when COVID was at its worse, and he said the reason he didn't go to Japan is because he isn't vaccinated (Japan requires you to be in order to enter the country.) I still enjoy his humor for the most part, and he has been less vocal lately about his weird health opinions (given how much his diet and opinions have changed since I've been watching him I can't imagine anyone taking his health advice/opinions seriously but they do), I think in part because it turned off viewers. 22 minutes ago, stephen said: According to CVP's review Panasonic S5 II PDAF auto focus in video is still behind Sony and Canon. According to them auto focus with Sigma MC21 + Canon EF lenses is no different than auto focus with native lenses https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VPQoWRS0l4 Most videos I've seen have said it's better than Canon, but lags a little bit behind Sony. There seems to have been a firmware update at some point; I think quite a few had already edited their videos pre-firmware update and didn't bother to update the video before uploading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Matthews Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 11 hours ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said: (please Panasonic, make a rangefinder S5 II, even with some capped video specs - spoiler, will not happen, hehehehe) Now they've hidden the fan under the "pentaprism", I think I'd rather have the security of no over-heating than a EVF off to the side. That was very clever design on Panasonic's part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beritar Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 5 hours ago, stephen said: According to CVP's review Panasonic S5 II PDAF auto focus in video is still behind Sony and Canon. According to them auto focus with Sigma MC21 + Canon EF lenses is no different than auto focus with native lenses https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VPQoWRS0l4 Yes but I've also seen some videos where the new Panny AF is even better than the A7IV, so we must wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 In ALL of the direct heads to heads it looked better as did the SOOC colour science and as for the IBIS… Kisaha and stephen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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