Panasonic S5 II (What does Panasonic have up their sleeve?)

[Django]

31 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

I think it was a case where the camera identified 2 or 3 humans correctly and then I moved the D-pad to switch between subjects. You could also tap on the LCD in that situation. 

However there are other situations where the AF switches itself back and forth between human subjects, seemingly at random. It might be more prevalent in low light, not sure yet. I think Panasonic could work on this a bit. I would prefer that human AF stays on the same subject until the user selects another subject, regardless of who is closer to the cam.

A subject-style AF in the Canon style would also be welcome. If the human subject walks offscreen the AF shifts to the background, which looks wrong. 

 

 

 

Yeah Fuji has the same issue of randomly switching to others when multiple people enter the frame. Totally ruins a shot and drives one mad. The subject-only AF setting of latest gen Canons is definitely a very solid AF feature, I'd call it a game changer even. Panasonic would be wise to try and implement a similar thing.

[Beritar]

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

Thank you! Quick question/comment though: I've never had a problem with the S5 being so jittery on the y-axis like it is in your clips. I've used the kit lens, which doesn't have OIS, and the 24-105mm, which does, for the last year. What lens did you use? 

It is the 20-60mm kit lens.

[MrSMW]

On 2/5/2023 at 7:22 AM, Django said:

Sounds like some of you have been on Panasonic too long. Soon you're going to be nostalgic about DFD contrast AF

For video, other than (reliable) tracking, I always found it quite decent.

For stills, as long as it isn’t anything like motor sports or anything fast paced, it’s arguably better than phase because contrast is generally more reliable than phase.

Where it pissed me off though was the occasional pulsing. You can dial in certain settings that dial out most of it, but not completely in all situations. Mainly outdoors. With trees in the background. Which is a scenario I shoot a lot.

It was this that sent me down the route of using AF to get an initial lock, because despite being slower than PDAF, it is accurate, then immediately flipping to manual.

And that is where/why I love my Sigma lenses because they all have an AF/MF switch in them so the process is fluid.

Maybe it’s just me, but I prefer to switch the focus type on the lens rather than the body.

[MrSMW]

On 2/5/2023 at 7:22 AM, Django said:

X

[MrSMW]

Double Post ^ !

[mercer]

29 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

For video, other than (reliable) tracking, I always found it quite decent.

For stills, as long as it isn’t anything like motor sports or anything fast paced, it’s arguably better than phase because contrast is generally more reliable than phase.

Where it pissed me off though was the occasional pulsing. You can dial in certain settings that dial out most of it, but not completely in all situations. Mainly outdoors. With trees in the background. Which is a scenario I shoot a lot.

It was this that sent me down the route of using AF to get an initial lock, because despite being slower than PDAF, it is accurate, then immediately flipping to manual.

And that is where/why I love my Sigma lenses because they all have an AF/MF switch in them so the process is fluid.

Maybe it’s just me, but I prefer to switch the focus type on the lens rather than the body.

You know you can set the ae/lock button to one touch af on Panasonic bodies while in MF.

[Django]

56 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

For video, other than (reliable) tracking, I always found it quite decent.

For stills, as long as it isn’t anything like motor sports or anything fast paced, it’s arguably better than phase because contrast is generally more reliable than phase.

Where it pissed me off though was the occasional pulsing. You can dial in certain settings that dial out most of it, but not completely in all situations. Mainly outdoors. With trees in the background. Which is a scenario I shoot a lot.

It was this that sent me down the route of using AF to get an initial lock, because despite being slower than PDAF, it is accurate, then immediately flipping to manual.

And that is where/why I love my Sigma lenses because they all have an AF/MF switch in them so the process is fluid.

Maybe it’s just me, but I prefer to switch the focus type on the lens rather than the body.

Canon lenses usually have AF/MF switches but what's even nicer is most have manual override by simply grabbing the focus ring when lens is in AF. Great for stills but even for video, I always have a quick access dedicated button to toggle AF on/off so I just hit that and pull MF if needed. Not enough cameras allow you to switch AF on/off via button, its just either AF/MF on a switch which I find annoying for video as its almost impossible to remain the camera 100% steady while going back & forth using a switch (I toggle AF/MF a lot).

I'm not sure how it works on Panny but the new f1.8 primes have AF/MF switches on them plus: 

activating AF+MF in the camera’s menu enables the manual focus ring to be used for focusing while the lens is set to AF and the shutter release is held half-pressed.

Not a bad solution for stills but for video I guess no direct MF override when lens is set to AF?

[Roger]

28 minutes ago, Django said:

activating AF+MF in the camera’s menu enables the manual focus ring to be used for focusing while the lens is set to AF and the shutter release is held half-pressed.

Not a bad solution for stills but for video I guess no direct MF override when lens is set to AF?

It works in video to on my S5. Before recording it's the same as stills, half press and then you can use manual focus. When you press record the manual focus just works when you turn the focus ring, guess it's the same with S5II.

[Django]

5 hours ago, Roger said:

It works in video to on my S5. Before recording it's the same as stills, half press and then you can use manual focus. When you press record the manual focus just works when you turn the focus ring, guess it's the same with S5II.

Ok but what happens during recording if you're in continuous AF and you grab the ring to MF? once you let go the focus ring it switches right back to AF and may hunt/pump if it decides to focus elsewhere. That's where toggling on/off AF via quick button config becomes crucial. Can that be done?

[Roger]

1 hour ago, Django said:

Ok but what happens during recording if you're in continuous AF and you grab the ring to MF? once you let go the focus ring it switches right back to AF and may hunt/pump if it decides to focus elsewhere. That's where toggling on/off AF via quick button config becomes crucial. Can that be done?

Yes you can do that, I just tried it. If you set a custom button to "autofocus lock" then when you're use the focus ring it stays in manual mode until you click "autofocus lock" again and it will go back to AF.

[Davide DB]

Hence, going back to the initial Tokio rumors.. Was the whole Lidar and DJI thing a fake? 🙂

[MrSMW]

35 minutes ago, Davide DB said:

Hence, going back to the initial Tokio rumors.. Was the whole Lidar and DJI thing a fake? 🙂

Yes, I was wondering the same thing yesterday…

Not so much whether it was fake as such, but just what the connection was…

[Davide DB]

7 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Yes, I was wondering the same thing yesterday…

Not so much whether it was fake as such, but just what the connection was…

We'll never know except....

In his S5II review, Gerald mentions an upcoming video of Josh Yeo about a more "artistic" review of the camera. Josh has done several jobs with DJI gear... 

Just my speculation

[ade towell]

Ok have been using and testing the S5ii for a few weeks now as a replacement for Canon R6 and am overall very happy with it. Will be selling the R6.

I did consider getting the R6ii but it was nearly £800 more expensive than the S5ii and still had some of the issues I had with the R6 - namely micro HDMI, no external monitor when using the touchscreen, and still the relatively poor DR of Canon mirrorless 

The new R8 also came into the picture but no IBIS and poor battery life meant it wouldn't work for me.

I looked at used R5's too but was put off by the 30 minute record limit, micro HDMI, lingering doubts about it still overheating and relatively poor DR with higher price tag and added expense of new cf express cards.

Back to the S5ii and I've really enjoyed using it. Where I feel it is better than the R6 is...

IBIS - this is big for me and didnt realise just how much better it is than on the R6. Has really helped speed up the filming process grabbing handheld shots I wouldn't have the confidence to do with the Canon.

DR, again quite a big difference, image feels fuller and cleaner than R6

Full size HDMI - again for me a biggie. I tried using a micro HDMI clamp on Fuji Xt3 and it still broke. I detest micro HDMI and has no place on a camera that claims to take video seriously. 

External monitor works whilst still having access to a fully functioning touchscreen of the camera. You can also put luts on the monitor image. All very nice for my ageing eyes 

Audio - this is the first mirrorless camera where I feel comfortable recording sound internally on important stuff. The 96khz 24 bit with line level and decent preamps I think make all the difference. I use Sound Devices mix pre-d for XLR on the base of the camera. I know Panasonic and Sony and now Canon using Tascam have an xlr audio adaptor you can attach to the hotshoe but that seems a crazy place to hang xlr cables to me and looks like an accident waiting to happen. Am very happy not using external audio and syncing up.

AF for video - using the Sigma adaptor my EF lenses work on the S5ii just as well as they do on the R6. This has been a bit of a surprise I thought the R6 would still be better for AF but for my uses I think they are about the same. The S5ii sticks to its subject just as well. For stills I haven't really tested too much - for sports or wildlife fast moving stuff I presume the R6 maybe better but that's not what I photograph. Am still waiting for Capture one to be able to use RAW on the S5ii but have been very happy with the jpegs so far. Am aware the R6ii has improved feature with subject only that maybe better now for video AF

Lenses - I got the 20-60mm and 50mm 1.8 with the S5ii at a good price. They are both great lenses for video - well built, silent and fast AF and come with good quality lens hoods. Drives me mad that with Canon you have to buy an L lens to get a hood. The 20-60mm is surprisingly good, 20mm is a great bonus when traditionally these zooms start at 24mm. The zoom ring is quite firm but solid and won't extend under gravity like my 24-105mm L lens is prone to do. I love the 50mm it has a nice big dampened focus ring and is a good size and weight on the S5ii, feels nicely balanced. Am using it way more than I ever did the little plastic 50mm stm lens I have for the R6 which was slow with AF and cheap feeling focus ring. I think these silent focusing Panasonic lenses are better for video than most of the noisy Canon lenses i have.

Crop mode in apsc the S5ii is sharper and cleaner than the R6, handy for extra reach 

Colour - I really like working with vlog in Resolve and feel it is more malleable than the Canon R6's clog3 which has less DR to play with and has some strange cut off going on in the shadows.

One thing I will miss about the R6 is the Meike vari nd filter adapter I used which was great when using EF lenses and better and much cheaper thsn the Canon version. I hear that Meike are making one for the Panasonic so will be keen to get that so long as it works as well as the Sigma adaptor does.

R6 has 4k 50p full frame but I don't use it so no big deal for me - obviously for some it is important 

Anyway that's all I can think of for now, hope someone finds it useful

 

[John Matthews]

10 minutes ago, ade towell said:

Lenses - I got the 20-60mm and 50mm 1.8 with the S5ii at a good price.

Say what you want about Panasonic marketing, but these deals make people want to move into the system. They're getting great value at that price. I've seen the original S5 with those two lenses for under 2000 euros.

[ade towell]

Yes it definitely sealed the deal for me

[Django]

That's awesome it is working out so good for you, really makes me wanna try one out ASAP!

1 hour ago, ade towell said:

Audio - this is the first mirrorless camera where I feel comfortable recording sound internally on important stuff. The 96khz 24 bit with line level and decent preamps I think make all the difference. I use Sound Devices mix pre-d for XLR on the base of the camera. I know Panasonic and Sony and now Canon using Tascam have an xlr audio adaptor you can attach to the hotshoe but that seems a crazy place to hang xlr cables to me and looks like an accident waiting to happen. Am very happy not using external audio and syncing up.

Could you expand a bit on this, how are you recording audio internally with the sound devices unit? Just via mini jack from stereo out to stereo in?

[ade towell]

Am using an XLR to mini jack lead - mono coming from one of the XLR outputs on the mix pre and input by the mini jack on the s5ii and selecting line level on both devices

I let the lovely pre amps on the mix pre do the heavy lifting and set the S5ii levels fairly low .

[Kisaha]

4 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Say what you want about Panasonic marketing, but these deals make people want to move into the system. They're getting great value at that price. I've seen the original S5 with those two lenses for under 2000 euros.

That 2 lenses combo is the best deal in the market right now.. very tempting..

Good point about the Meike adapter, I have it for my RF right now and has many benefits.

I would like to know more about the adapted EF lenses on the S.

There are small differences between the adapted EF and the native RF lenses I believe..small but existent.

[newfoundmass]

4 hours ago, ade towell said:

Lenses - I got the 20-60mm and 50mm 1.8 with the S5ii at a good price. They are both great lenses for video - well built, silent and fast AF and come with good quality lens hoods. Drives me mad that with Canon you have to buy an L lens to get a hood. The 20-60mm is surprisingly good, 20mm is a great bonus when traditionally these zooms start at 24mm. The zoom ring is quite firm but solid and won't extend under gravity like my 24-105mm L lens is prone to do. I love the 50mm it has a nice big dampened focus ring and is a good size and weight on the S5ii, feels nicely balanced. Am using it way more than I ever did the little plastic 50mm stm lens I have for the R6 which was slow with AF and cheap feeling focus ring. I think these silent focusing Panasonic lenses are better for video than most of the noisy Canon lenses i have.

That 20-60mm kit lens is the best kit lens I've ever used, and is a genuinely good lens. When I bought my first S5 used I planned to sell the kit lens but then when I got it I decided not to. When I bought my second S5 body I ended up buying a second 20-60mm because of how good it is and in the event I needed two wider shots. Usually I use the 24-105mm on one body and the 20-60mm on another, but it's worth having that extra 20-60mm in my case for when I need it. 

My next lens will be the 35mm f1.8, I think.

4 hours ago, ade towell said:

Audio - this is the first mirrorless camera where I feel comfortable recording sound internally on important stuff. The 96khz 24 bit with line level and decent preamps I think make all the difference. I use Sound Devices mix pre-d for XLR on the base of the camera. I know Panasonic and Sony and now Canon using Tascam have an xlr audio adaptor you can attach to the hotshoe but that seems a crazy place to hang xlr cables to me and looks like an accident waiting to happen. Am very happy not using external audio and syncing up.

The Panny XLR adapter is great, but if you're feeding it a line in there's not much of a reason to use it over the mic jack. You'll get good audio either way, since Panasonic pre-amps have been pretty good since the GH5. 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts!