Panasonic S5 II (What does Panasonic have up their sleeve?)

[MrSMW]

21 hours ago, ade towell said:

Am very happy not using external audio and syncing up

Ditto. In fact for the way I work, it is better.

 

21 hours ago, ade towell said:

I hear that Meike are making one for the Panasonic

I really hope so…

I have the Fotodiox EF-L adapter with built in VND and it’s a great bit of kit…except MF lenses only and I prefer Sigma DG DN lenses.

21 hours ago, ade towell said:

The 20-60mm is surprisingly good, 20mm is a great bonus when traditionally these zooms start at 24mm

It is. I sold mine though for 2 reasons:

The variable aperture and the fact that it was a bit too slow for very low light and because sometimes (very rarely, but still sometimes!) I need to go wider.

Hello Sigma 16-24mm f2.8 but because I am a crop mode 4k 50p shooter, it’s more like a 24-42mm which for my needs is great.

21 hours ago, ade towell said:

30 minute record limit

That was my single biggest issue with the S5.

My S5ii turns up this week and is actually going to be paired with permanently, the Sigma crop only, 18-50mm f2.8

Tiny but very capable crop 27-75mm.

My S1H has had a stay of execution and is not being replaced by a second S5ii as all it needs to do is perform 30+ minute static duty on a tripod without AF, so a second S5ii in that role would be wasted (and the old S5 could not do it in the first place. Not in 10 bit 4K 50p anyway).

And in a final about face, I am going to mostly be shooting zooms for my stills.

I was going all primes (from f2’s to 1.4’s) with my S1R’s, but having tried out those f1.4’s, decided that ergonomically, I really needed battery grips to be comfortable on a typical 12-15 hour shoot…but the ergos of the S1R sans grip, are very well suited to that Sigma pairing of 16-24 and 28-70 so sticking with that as I have the lenses. And love them.

The only prime I am keeping is the Sigma 85mm f1.4 because it’s not too big and an absolute gem for stills at 85mm, or for video cropped at ‘127mm’.

[Beritar]

Like the GH6, the S5II uses a sort of digital aliasing/moiré filter to helps with repetitive lines. I use Panasonic cameras since the GH4 and there is something I really disliked about image quality on their new cameras since the GH6 and now I know what is it.
This + the increased noise reduction on the standard profiles make the pictures sometimes weird/plastic, especially on skin. 
Fortunately, this digital moiré filter is a bit weakier in V-log but still there. To compensate the softening made by this digital filter, Panasonic has added more sharpening compare to the S5 especially with standard profiles, and (according to what I see on facebook) even in V-log when both camera have the sharpness set to 0. But the end result is not really good, the image looks sometimes weird mostly when there is motion or on the skin because it smooths some textures (like skin pores) and sharpen other ones (like eyelashes), so there is less details (despite higher in camera sharpening) than on the S5 and S1.

 

[92F]

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBv28suvRP8

[PannySVHS]

Guess I would rather keep my S1 instead of selling it for a S5II. Looking forward to see more videos on that. Thanks for pointing out! @Beritar

[newfoundmass]

Hopefully it's something they can fix in a firmware update.

[Beritar]

5 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Guess I would rather keep my S1 instead of selling it for a S5II. Looking forward to see more videos on that. Thanks for pointing out! @Beritar

I just saw there is NO smoothing in C4K ! The picture looks exactly the same than the S5 and S1. 
However 4K and 5,9/6K are impacted, and sadly V-log as well.

You can see how some textures look in 4K, look at the green grid :
 

There is a big difference about details rendering between 4K and C4K, 4K sometimes looks like upscaled 1080P with some textures like skin. I hope panasonic will fix this in a firmware update soon.

[MrSMW]

That is a bit odd… why is only C4K not affected?

It is my standard anyway so that is good and this year I am switching from the Flat profile to log with some extensive testing coming up ahead of my main season.

[John Matthews]

I'm making a prediction here:

Panasonic is not ready to let go of the LX100 series and they will release a LX100 iii in the next 1-2 months. It will have a GH6 sensor WITHOUT DR Boost and PDAF. It makes sense.

What do you think?

[hyalinejim]

15 hours ago, Beritar said:

You can see how some textures look in 4K, look at the green grid

Maybe I'm blind but I've now looked at all three of these videos on my monitor (as opposed to on my phone) streaming at 4k resolution and pausing the video on relevant frames. I'm sure there is a difference but I don't see anything that I would object to in the S5II shots. If anything the moire control seems to be working because I saw some in the standard profile S5 shot that wasn't in the comparison shot for the S5II!

[92F]

Ok with you ...

Subject to deepen by changing the settings but not so alarming .. the GH5 could also offer waxy faces

With the more solid codecs of the S5X will we have the same thing ?

[So Ros]

4 hours ago, John Matthews said:

 

I'm making a prediction here:

Panasonic is not ready to let go of the LX100 series and they will release a LX100 iii in the next 1-2 months. It will have a GH6 sensor WITHOUT DR Boost and PDAF. It makes sense.

 

As much as I like the LX100, I think putting PDAF should be the strategy going forward for M43.  Nothing wrong with the GH6 sensor but from the lack of GH6 sales + $800+ price drop and YouTube DFD backlash puts Panasonic M43 users in rough spot imo.  I think they need at least one system with PDAF that cost $1000-$1400 to get them back in the game.

[John Matthews]

2 minutes ago, So Ros said:

As much as I like the LX100, I think putting PDAF should be the strategy going forward for M43.  Nothing wrong with the GH6 sensor but from the lack of GH6 sales + $800+ price drop and YouTube DFD backlash puts Panasonic M43 users in rough spot imo.  I think they need at least one system with PDAF that cost $1000-$1400 to get them back in the game.

Yes. I'm just not sure they're going to go with PDAF in a interchangeable lens camera first though. It would be even better though. I think it'll be a small camera though. We'll see.

Do you have real sales numbers on low GH6 sales? Yes, there were massive deals on Black Friday (especially in France), but that is much like what has happened with other cameras (G7, GX80/85, GX850, GH5 G9, etc.)... it didn't necessarily mean they were selling "bad". It could just mean it was a planned promotion like with all those other models.

YouTubers are often wrong about anything regarding M43. Many of them have said it's "dead", and they can't focus worth a damn... apparently YouTube standards in the camera world surpass Hollywood. Meanwhile, they point their FF camera at themselves at f/1.4, marveling at how their purple and blue twinkle lights don't flutter in the background because, after all, this is what really matters. Am I being harsh?

[Beritar]

For those who want to see the difference in image quality between the S5 and S5II (and the smoothing) :

Cine-V2, ISO 800

V-Log is the only profile without this smoothing on skin.

[Sharathc47]

9 minutes ago, Beritar said:

For those who want to see the difference in image quality between the S5 and S5II (and the smoothing) :

Cine-V2, ISO 800

V-Log is the only profile without this smoothing on skin.

Please extend clips to 30 seconds atleast

[newfoundmass]

9 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

Maybe I'm blind but I've now looked at all three of these videos on my monitor (as opposed to on my phone) streaming at 4k resolution and pausing the video on relevant frames. I'm sure there is a difference but I don't see anything that I would object to in the S5II shots. If anything the moire control seems to be working because I saw some in the standard profile S5 shot that wasn't in the comparison shot for the S5II!

I definitely see a difference. The image isn't completely unpleasing. I think the issue isn't so much that it's there if you want that level of denoising, but that you can't turn it off. I'm personally opposed to having less control over how the image looks, so it'd be very much appreciated if Lumix could give people the option to adjust how much denoising is going on.

[So Ros]

7 hours ago, John Matthews said:

YouTubers are often wrong about anything regarding M43. Many of them have said it's "dead", and they can't focus worth a damn... apparently YouTube standards in the camera world surpass Hollywood. Meanwhile, they point their FF camera at themselves at f/1.4, marveling at how their purple and blue twinkle lights don't flutter in the background because, after all, this is what really matters. Am I being harsh?

No! You’re not being harsh, I’m really speaking to m43 users that need it.  That’s fine if you don’t but there are some that do, like solo bloggers, YouTubers and fast action photography. I understand some want high specs like 4k120/6k60 but there’s a sub set of m43 users that just need the autofocus not the high specs.  It’s the reason some didn’t upgrade to the GH6, some moved to sony/canon and some moved to the S series.  Gh6 sales weren’t as good as the GH5, let’s be honest here but it could be better.  If they make one m43 camera with pdaf, then that will shut YouTubers up.

[dgbarar]

I am eagerly awaiting a m43 camera with phase detect autofocus from Panasonic--a GH6s or GH7.   If the autofocus works well, then I will ditch my X-H2S that is a major disappointment with respect to video autofocus.

[Beritar]

14 hours ago, Sharathc47 said:

Please extend clips to 30 seconds atleast

Another scene and "subject"  :

 

 

[TomTheDP]

The GH6 still stands out to me as its internal 4k or 6k 60p looks better than the full frame 4k 35 crop on the S1/S5/S1H. 

I recently sold my S1 to get a Sigma FP. The S5iiX might bring me back to Panasonic. I have always been impressed with the dynamic range on the S1 sensor and with a nice internal codec it would be hard to turn down. 

The GH6 also has 4k 120fps which the S1 sensor can't hold a candle to. The thing is I rarely shoot above 24fps and I think the S5/S1 Sensor in full frame 4k/6k 24 has more dynamic range. The GH6 is cheaper though. 

I am also interested if there will be a S1H2 with a new sensor that has a faster readout for 4k 120fps. 

[HockeyFan12]

40 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

The GH6 still stands out to me as its internal 4k or 6k 60p looks better than the full frame 4k 35 crop on the S1/S5/S1H. 

I recently sold my S1 to get a Sigma FP. The S5iiX might bring me back to Panasonic. I have always been impressed with the dynamic range on the S1 sensor and with a nice internal codec it would be hard to turn down. 

The GH6 also has 4k 120fps which the S1 sensor can't hold a candle to. The thing is I rarely shoot above 24fps and I think the S5/S1 Sensor in full frame 4k/6k 24 has more dynamic range. The GH6 is cheaper though. 

I am also interested if there will be a S1H2 with a new sensor that has a faster readout for 4k 120fps. 

You had a P6K at some point, right? How did you like that compared with the S1, fp, Alexa, etc. I'm looking for a smaller camera/Alexa b camera and Black Magic has really consistent color camera-to-camera it seems so it would be easier for my workflow than the S1 and S1Alex (which works, just not as flexible as shooting braw and using ACES would be for me).