Panasonic S5 II (What does Panasonic have up their sleeve?)

[92F]

" Test 2 of a7SIII vs S5II. 24-70 GM II vs Sigma 24-70 L Mount. 

AF settings are set to default on both setups and WB is set to 5600K on both the whole time.

The same LUT is applied over both clips with the only a few minor exposure tweaks to get them closer in color.

The S5II was shot in VLOG and the a7SIII was shot in S-LOG3.Cine"

Testing Sony a7SIII vs Lumix S5II - 24-70 GM II vs Sigma 24-70 L Mount.

 

 

[deezid]

On 3/1/2023 at 1:17 AM, PannySVHS said:

What about Vlog for the S5 II and GH6? @deezid cheers

sorry about the late answer.
Not sure about the S5II's banding issues in dark areas. Waiting on former updates by Panasonic on firmware updates before I'd recommend this camera.

Unlike oversharpening there's nothing that can be done to hide banding artefacts.

[deezid]

On 3/2/2023 at 4:16 PM, Beritar said:

I don't think the issue is Phase Detect because V-Log on the S5II (while sharper than before) has not the insane sharpening and chroma noise reduction that the standard profiles have.
Moreover, nor my A7III and IV smooth details like this at low ISO and yet they use Phase detect.
There are just bad processing going on internaly on the standard profiles with the S5II.

Also cameras such as the Canon R6II or Sony FX6/FX9 don't have any of these crazy NR and oversharpening issues despite using Phase AF.

It's not a hardware issue but an image processing flaw.

[Al Dolega]

I think we may be getting to the point where the number of things the market is expecting/hoping to be fixed soon via firmware may be outstripping how many things I reasonably expect can be addressed in a single firmware (or several firmwares in a short timeframe).

I would love for the banding, oversharpening, smoothing, AF performance, and maybe even rolling shutter to be addressed/improved by the time my preorderd S5IIX comes in in 2-2.5 months, but I am losing faith in that happening.

AF on my S1 has actually been behaving itself recently so maybe I'll tell myself to wait until the S2 or S2H is announced.

[PannySVHS]

So are you still a fan of the image from the "old" S1 (without H:) then? @deezid

Maybe I should keep mine. It´s a great image taker after all. Just not loving the camera as an object, though very well made for rough action and work.

[MrSMW]

I have been eyeing up S1H’s today. Down well below 2k now on the used market.

Can I really chop in 2x S1R’s for another however and go down from 4 to 3 bodies as I’d like?

It’s just one single part (but the key one) of my job that currently stops me. At least without not having a fundamental compromise or more lens fiddling…

[Thpriest]

46 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I have been eyeing up S1H’s today. Down well below 2k now on the used market.

Can I really chop in 2x S1R’s for another however and go down from 4 to 3 bodies as I’d like?

It’s just one single part (but the key one) of my job that currently stops me. At least without not having a fundamental compromise or more lens fiddling…

Did you get a S5 mk2? If so how are you finding it? 

[MrSMW]

Yes and had it for a couple of weeks now. Had a little play but nothing more though it starts earning it’s keep in a couple of weeks.

I got it specifically for 3 reasons:

Reliable AF tracking for those few occasions on every job where I need that reliability.

No 30 minute timer, essential for me for longer wedding ceremonies and speeches.

Fan. Never had my S5 overheat, but then I used to use my S1H as my principal static unit.

The new boy has been mounted on a Ronin RS3 which itself is mounted on an ultra-light tripod (a fraction under 1kg) with the APSC Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 and DJI Wireless Go.

This unit is purely for ceremonies, speeches, entrances, exits and couple stuff, either full length static or operating the gimbal in my hands.

It’s now just a question of whether I flip my pair of S1R’s for another S1H…

Pros: I prefer (love) the form factor of the S1H. It is my favourite, almost perfect camera though I would prefer it to be about 10% smaller and lighter ideally.

Ideally, I would rather it had better AF, but it’s not terrible and in my use case, not really an issue.

The button positioning and damper shutter are superb as is the rear LCD that I use exclusively to shoot with.

It has an anti-moire filter.

The pros of the S1R’s however are that I have 2 units so can use primes more easily, they were relatively cheap to buy (used) and have a higher res sensor for stills. Going from 4 to 3 bodies is better in most ways, but it does require me to lose two prime focal lengths and replace them with a zoom. The S1H counters with better low light capability.

The biggest issue with the S1R’s is that because I shoot 4k 50p, I have to drop to 8 bit which is OK in most circumstances, but not all and I would rather all the sensors matched. The 5k on the S1R is superb, but there is no Vlog option, so editing mismatch issues.. Arguably the S5ii sensor is different but then so is my drone and OK, I need to do a little fiddling in areas.

Conclusion = I think I am going to push the button. I might…just might, even consider trading the S5ii for a third S1H and go with that triple set up…

 

 

[Thpriest]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Yes and had it for a couple of weeks now. Had a little play but nothing more though it starts earning it’s keep in a couple of weeks.

I got it specifically for 3 reasons:

Reliable AF tracking for those few occasions on every job where I need that reliability.

No 30 minute timer, essential for me for longer wedding ceremonies and speeches.

Fan. Never had my S5 overheat, but then I used to use my S1H as my principal static unit.

I'm starting with hybrid weddings this year. Unlike you I come from a video background. I have the S1 and S5 and although they both produce the same excellent images, I find the S1 to be far better to use other than its weight. The EVF and LCD are very good which makes quick shooting much easier than on the S5. I find it to be faster when writing to the cards as well and the IBIS is better which is a real bonus in a wedding.

What intrigues me about the S5 mk2 is that it has the AF for when it's needed, it has 2 UHS-II SD card slots (should mean faster write times when switching between photo and video), better EVF and LCD (and punch in to check focus) and last but not least, the realtime LUTS. I believe you could have the photos and the videos with the same look straight out of the camera which should great. Have you tried that?

[MrSMW]

Update: I did it...or am at least in the process of, ie, another (used) S1H is arriving tomorrow and next week, the pair of S1R's will be off.

My season is almost upon me so I'd rather start as I mean to go from the very first job which will be a pair of S1H's for hybrid work and a single S5ii for mostly pure video useage.

That WILL be it for 2023 and then, having established my preferred 3 unit set up in principle, can work in the future towards an identical 3 body set up also.

Why not 3x S5ii or S5iix's? Side-hinged LCD is a deal-breaker for me. Hate is a strong word, but I truly despise such things. Tilt screens are king and the one on the S1H is perfect.

Real-time LUT? No, not tried it, but like it and would ideally like to work with that in principle in the future. I'm not a 'filmmaker' or a commercial videographer/photographer that has to please a client who may wish to then use their own look, but an independent hybrid wedding photo/videographer who gets booked specifically for a look.

I have however been playing with a creative LUT from Gamut and tweaked it to create my own grading LUT plus have made a preset for Lightroom for my stills using Photoshop, so pretty much the same thing, just not in camera.

Again, it's another reason why trading the S1R's for another S1H will help in this regard because consistent grading will be much easier, especially as I am using log (for the first time) this year.

Finally, why not flip the S5ii for a third S1H and have complete uniformity and interchangeability...which would be/is my ideal? The AF tracking issue. I have a need and the slight compromise of the grading side of things will be a compromise I can live with for another year.

S2H please. Three of them. And then with a career expected to be another 8 seasons, could be my last ever pro camera...

[Thpriest]

Have you seen if the S5 mk2 has a faster write time to the cards?

I much prefer a centred LCD for video. I don't ming the flip LCD for photos but it's uncomfortable for video shooting.

[Thpriest]

I really think they should have put the S1H's or GH6's LCD on the S5 mk2X.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, Thpriest said:

Have you seen if the S5 mk2 has a faster write time to the cards?

Don’t know. Either both are fast enough for me and other stuff like these very slight differences between old and new gen re. color and detail etc, don’t interest me as in none of the things are deal-breakers.

Flippy screens are! Exemption granted for the S5ii because of it’s specific role.

However, had the S5ii or X had a tilt screen instead of a flip out, I would have flipped my S5, S1H and both S1R’s for 3 of them without any further thought.

Ditto why I did not go with the XH2 I tested last year. But for the lack of a tilt screen, I would have traded it all for 3 of those.

The tilt screen is THAT important to me and how I prefer to work.

[MrSMW]

2 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

I really think they should have put the S1H's or GH6's LCD on the S5 mk2X.

Crossed posts. I agree 100%.

I suspect most ‘filmmakers’ would agree whilst most content creators/‘shitters’ would disagree and require that selfie mode because you know it’s all about them and not the ‘content’ don’t you? 😬

[Thpriest]

2 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

The tilt screen is THAT important to me and how I prefer to work.

The same for me when doing video but...for workable AF I'd probably accept the side LCD as my eyes aren't getting any younger!

[MrSMW]

In fact it makes me pretty cross they did not because the standard model is more than enough for it’s principal market so why not make the X more pro?

Oh, I know…to protect the S2H. I hope… 🙏

[j_one]

10 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I have however been playing with a creative LUT from Gamut and tweaked it to create my own grading LUT plus have made a preset for Lightroom for my stills using Photoshop, so pretty much the same thing, just not in camera.

Wanted to ask, how have you been finding the Gamut LUTS? I was interested in their V-Log Rec709 BaseLut, it seems to be the most pleasing transform. Have you tried that on the s5ii V-log by chance? I have an s5ii on the way, and I don't have time to fuss with the color science shifts Panny has implemented since the GH6 vs the likes of s1/s5/s1h etc...I am also matching to my Blackmagic cameras so having something consistent for all my cams from Gamut would be nice.

[Al Dolega]

I also prefer the tilt screen in most scenarios, not strongly but a slight preference. Over the years I've had more cams with the flip screen though, so I know I can adjust just fine. I don't expect the S5II to have the combo tilt/flip, it is after all a mid-range (or basic/entry-level for full-frame) camera, and that market solidly prefers the flip screen. For two grand there are going to be compromises. The S2 or S2H will almost definitely have the combo screen, and hopefully everything else we've been wishing for.

[MrSMW]

6 hours ago, j_one said:

Wanted to ask, how have you been finding the Gamut LUTS? I was interested in their V-Log Rec709 BaseLut, it seems to be the most pleasing transform. Have you tried that on the s5ii V-log by chance?

S1H, S5 and S5ii and although I have limited experience shooting log (been mainly shooting profiles to date), I was determined to switch properly to using it this year and tried various conversion LUTs including Panasonic’s own, but found the Gamut one best.

 

 

[Beritar]

On 3/13/2023 at 1:51 AM, Al Dolega said:

I think we may be getting to the point where the number of things the market is expecting/hoping to be fixed soon via firmware may be outstripping how many things I reasonably expect can be addressed in a single firmware (or several firmwares in a short timeframe).

I would love for the banding, oversharpening, smoothing, AF performance, and maybe even rolling shutter to be addressed/improved by the time my preorderd S5IIX comes in in 2-2.5 months, but I am losing faith in that happening.

AF on my S1 has actually been behaving itself recently so maybe I'll tell myself to wait until the S2 or S2H is announced.

Seriously I miss the S1 (but not its AF). In fact I almost don't use my S5II because I don't like it for low light even at low ISO. The rendering on faces is just bad because of over shaprening and (especially) smoothed out details. 
V-log is better but still not as good as before and not recommended for the cleanest footage, using underexposed LUTs to get ride of noise just doesn't work well because Dynamic range take a hit and above all you loose too much light doing this.

If you don't crop a lot in your videos, I think you will like the S5II though, but in my case if Panasonic doesn't adress the image quality with the standard profiles and really want to target smartphone users, I don't think I will use their camera anymore. I was tempted to buy an S1 again but the AF is really not good with low contrast scenes or when using Sigma lenses, it even struggles sometimes in good light with Panasonic S lenses ... 

I also use the Sony A7IV (and III) and it has better image quality in low light, there are some noise reduction at high ISO but there is absolutely no smoothing like on the S5II at low ISO. 
So Sony has great AF and image quality in most scenarios but it lacks good IBIS with >20mm lenses and it has no Open Gate mode.

It was really too much for Panasonic to make a S1 with the AF of the S5II ? 
I still hope.