Panasonic S5 II (What does Panasonic have up their sleeve?)

[MrSMW]

It’s OK. Just that, ie, not terrible and not superb.

Other than my gimbal unit for video use, I am switching to battery grips for hybrid use and my pair of inbound S5iix’s.

One in the body, one in the grip and another on charge. I think the grip one goes first so if that is the case (it usually is) then maybe one swap later in a typical 12 hour day should be good.

I don’t shoot non-stop for 12 hours obviously… 🤪😉

Batteries are cheap, can go in pockets and take seconds to swap so IMO, batteries have always been a non-issue for me.

Any situation where it has any chance of running out, powerbank clamped on the tripod.

 

[hyalinejim]

Battery life is ok but not amazing. Probably similar to the GH6 which I tested here:

If shooting on sticks for interviews or whatever I hang a USB powerbank from the tripod and then it lasts all day.

[MrSMW]

Embargo on S5iix lifted around one hour ago and reviews left right and centre.

They did hold back something and that is 12 bit Braw (external of course) for those that like that kind of thing. Davinci editing only I think though…?

Otherwise looking forward to mine arriving soon. New primary workhorse.

[Evgeniy85]

 

[MrSMW]

Liking the 6k 30p ‘open gate’ (3:2) on the S5ii…

Testing it ahead of the arrival of that pair of S5iix’s due hopefully soon…

I think I will probably be using it as my go to for the bulk of my work going forward because it does have an extra edge of detail over 4k and allows for better quality 9:16 highlight films using the same material, on top of my regular wedding films/videos.

The only issue I seem to be having is my M1 chip MacBook doesn’t seem to like it much whereas 4k footage flies through it. Not sure what’s going on there…

The baked in LUT works great so will also be using that going forward.

Using the Gamut conversion LUT which is my preferred one and the footage coming out is nicer than using any profile with more DR.

After some minor adjustments, it’s then just a case of the grade but I am much preferring getting an ‘a good starting point almost ready to go’ SOOC image.

No ‘worthy’ examples at this time as I was just messing about really trying out some different set ups and getting round any potential flicker etc (using 30fps in a PAL region).

It’s tungsten that is the only occasional issue but these things have synchro scan so as long as you don’t mind breaking the 180 degree shutter rule, you can tweak it any which way. Or just shoot 108/216/324 degrees if you know it’s just going to be awful.

Most of my work is daylight plus some LED so not really an issue anyway.

[Thpriest]

I just sold my S1 and have bought a S5mk2 with a Sigma 28-70 f2.8. They have them as a pack here in Spain for 2590€. Pretty happy with the deal. Only had time to set up the camera a check a few things. But there are 2 things that I think I'm really going to like, the ability to punch in and check focus whilst filming and the EVF, which isn't as good as the S1's but it's way better than the S5's. I'll have to learn how to use the AF but so far it look pretty good. The lens looks great, nice and compact. I can see it being my main lens. If also means my back pack will weigh less as I'll use the 24-105 less and the S5 is a lot lighter than the S1. All good so far!

[hyalinejim]

10 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

have bought a S5mk2

Congratulations! It's a great camera! I love mine.

[Framed_By_Dan]

Anyone who’s got their hands on an S5IIX able to see if there’s improvement on the skin smoothing/noise reduction artefacts that are present in the normal S5 II in the Rec709 based profiles? Also what about highlight roll off? I have the S1 that I personally feel is a bit too smooth and has hot highlights when shooting in a Rec 709 based profile - although the information does tend to come back fairly well in post. 

I’d love to move on from my GH5 to something a bit better in low light and the S5IIX could be a logical option but I’ve noticed some quirks with S series cameras that I don’t get with the GH line. 

I appreciate any real world user experience.

[Beritar]

10 hours ago, Framed_By_Dan said:

Anyone who’s got their hands on an S5IIX able to see if there’s improvement on the skin smoothing/noise reduction artefacts that are present in the normal S5 II in the Rec709 based profiles? Also what about highlight roll off? I have the S1 that I personally feel is a bit too smooth and has hot highlights when shooting in a Rec 709 based profile - although the information does tend to come back fairly well in post. 

I’d love to move on from my GH5 to something a bit better in low light and the S5IIX could be a logical option but I’ve noticed some quirks with S series cameras that I don’t get with the GH line. 

I appreciate any real world user experience.

I'm interested as well, I own the S5II and I can't use the 709 profiles on this camera, I don't like the fine details when cropping in low light even at low ISO, the S1 has just way better detail rendering in 6K with these profiles, the S5II just looks oversharpened even with sharpness at -5.

I'm almost sure the S5IIX has the same issue with ALL-I, maybe not in Prores but I don't want to use SSD for run and gun.

Note than neither the S5 and the S1 have skin smoothing/chroma NR with the 709 profiles.

[MrSMW]

Interesting, but I’m not noticing any of this stuff…

Either I’m not looking hard enough or it’s a non-issue. For me. Or I need my eyes testing…

6k 30p full frame 3:2 and 4k 60p 16:9 cropped, shooting LGOP, in camera, log with baked in Gamut V2 lut plus either 2-5 stop or 6-9 stop Freewell VND in 1/8th mist or after dark, just a 1/8th mist.

Single S5ii while I wait for my X to arrive.

And even then, by the time I have added my crappy grade and it’s been uploaded t’internet and the client watches it on their phone…

But seriously, as above, maybe I am not being critical enough but I’m not seeing it…probably because I’m not looking for it.

[MrSMW]

On 5/2/2023 at 4:23 PM, newfoundmass said:

Honestly almost any camera released these days will have good video, especially for the kind of work you mentioned. In the grand scheme of things, when someone says they prefer the video quality of one camera over another the difference isn't THAT huge. Not trying to speak for @MrSMW, obviously, he might disagree, but just as a general rule any camera you get today will be more than enough when it comes to image.

He doesn’t disagree, but is no authority when it comes to cameras, brands or anything much really. Except maybe weddings. He knows far too much about weddings… 🤪😉

For me, it’s never been about the camera alone, but the entire package.

The combination of all the factors balanced against the cost.

My biggest compromise to date has probably been not spending enough and as a result, spending more in the long run because of that. 

There has not been a single year since I embarked on my hybrid path, which was back around 2010, I have not been wrestling with kit.

I am now at a point where I am sick to death with constantly making ‘micro-adjustments’ within whatever system I am currently in (and really only been in 3; Nikon, Fuji, L Mount, with some sideline dabbling with Sony and Olympus) and have had enough.

I said it somewhere on this forum recently that given a magic wand, I’d wave it today and magically have all my kit replaced with a single Z9, a single Z8 and 3 Tamron lenses and have reached ‘peak system’.

But even though I know that ticks ALL boxes, it’s the wrong time of year and the cost (without the magic wand) is just a bit too high.

So I am building a system around S5iix’s a single S5ii and my old workhorse S1H, plus Sigma lenses.

Because it just works and is a zero compromise option other than…

1: It’s 4 cameras still and not 2, but the S1H has only one static job at 2 points and the S5ii is minimal use so for 90% of my work, it will be just a 2 body/3 lens approach.

2: Ticks every and all boxes other than I’d really like to try 8k raw video in order to pull hi res stills of it. I tried off 4k and it’s OK, but just that, OK. I have yet to try 6k and I will, but really 8k is where it’s at for that purpose. I don’t otherwise give a monkeys about 8k video for the sake of video purposes!

But re. both video and stills quality, they can all do it and do it well and as it’s always been, it’s more about what you do with the tools than what the tools can theoretically do.

It’s like the thing with phones and the question could you provide ‘professional’ results from say a wedding, video or stills and the answer is yes, easily, and no one would know…other than your clients and every guest at that wedding outraged at your temerity.

I’m getting me some battery grips on my S5iix’s because that IS pro 😬

[hyalinejim]

8 hours ago, MrSMW said:

baked in Gamut V2 lut

This is why you're not seeing it. A baked in LUT uses V-Log as its base picture style so it avoids the nasties that are in the regular profiles.

I never use regular profiles so I don't care. But for anyone who does want to use them then a solution is to use this method. If you're after the lower noise of regular profiles then just create a lut that pushes V-Log down by 2.66 stops. And I think you can also set metering compensation.

[deezid]

32 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

This is why you're not seeing it. A baked in LUT uses V-Log as its base picture style so it avoids the nasties that are in the regular profiles.

I never use regular profiles so I don't care. But for anyone who does want to use them then a solution is to use this method. If you're after the lower noise of regular profiles then just create a lut that pushes V-Log down by 2.66 stops. And I think you can also set metering compensation.

I agree. If you want good looking Rec709 on the S5II avoid any of the Rec709 profiles at all cost.
Use Real-Time Lut with a nice lut, preferably made for the S5II and its new colorscience and you'll get great looking results.

[deezid]

I have some more good news and spoiler alert: You may want to get the paid RAW update.

BRAW is now completely fixed it seems. No more sharpening, no more filtering and mushy textures.
Instead more texture, both luma and chroma than recording internally and at least 1-2 stops of more usable latitude since the shadow areas are clean now and highlight recovery seems to give one extra clean stop of highlight range.

 

BRAW with highlight recovery

 

Internal H265/H264/ProRes

[MrSMW]

47 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

This is why you're not seeing it. A baked in LUT uses V-Log as its base picture style so it avoids the nasties that are in the regular profiles.

Ah… I’m not so hot on the tech stuff and just could not get log to work for me for so long.

Then something just clicked in recent months and now I’m getting something SOOC which is not the finished result, but a good clean starting point that is most of the way there, is consistent and doesn’t require too much further work other than my personal grade. Which is still a work in progress.

I think it’s getting that right balance of using the dual native ISO settings, white balance and exposure with as much control and input on the lighting as I can.

Probably why I’m not experiencing it then having shifted from the Flat profile I was using in 2022 (and Natural in 2021 and Fuji Eterna for several years before that) but definitely a log fan boy now.

Next I’ll be doing Braw… 

Actually probably not…

[MrSMW]

Actually I was just musing whether with firmware we could get the baked in LUT feature in the S1H because otherwise I’d use the old boy as my primary tool as other that that, it’s still The Daddy other than that and AF.

If it’s possible, probably won’t happen…

[Beritar]

1 hour ago, hyalinejim said:

This is why you're not seeing it. A baked in LUT uses V-Log as its base picture style so it avoids the nasties that are in the regular profiles.

I never use regular profiles so I don't care. But for anyone who does want to use them then a solution is to use this method. If you're after the lower noise of regular profiles then just create a lut that pushes V-Log down by 2.66 stops. And I think you can also set metering compensation.

It's not so simple. If you create a LUT that push V-Log down by 2 stops, you need much more light compared to the 709 profiles. 

[hyalinejim]

Not if you ignore the meter! V-Log at base ISO 640 is simply ISO 100 pushed 2.66 stops to give extra highlight headroom. If you push it back down it should be just as clean as the regular profiles at ISO 100.

So you don't need more light at all you need to re-think ISO and metering.

In a situation where you would have shot Natural at 6400 you would add 2.66 stops to the ISO and shoot V-Log at 40000, then push the exposure back down with the real time LUT.

You can make a lut like this right now with LutCalc:

And then you will have a Rec709 file with low noise and none of the artifacts (and none of the highlight headroom, but you won't need it because you're burning in the contrast)

Also, you're not limited to the V709 conversion (that curve is a bit weird IMO). You can try more contrasty curves in LutCalc, while keeping the gamut conversion. Or you can load up your favourite third party LUT, add the -2.66 exposure and re-export it.

PS: It looks like Exposure Offset Adjust (to re-calibrate the meter) is limited to 1 EV maximum so with that selected you'd be looking to hit +1.66 on the meter instead of +2.66. This would be your new "zero".

No light needed, just ISO. Of course above a certain level I think you lose PDAF?

[PannySVHS]

@deezid
Would the same new Braw improvements apply to the Lumix S1 as well, the S1H and S5? Is it an improvement in the BMVA recorder hardware or software or S5II? I own a S1 and find the internal quality to be very good. How would you compare S1 with Braw to its internal recording? Also, how do you rate Braw in the 4k and 6k pockets? cheers and thanks! 🙂

[Beritar]

11 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

Not if you ignore the meter! V-Log at base ISO 640 is simply ISO 100 pushed 2.66 stops to give extra highlight headroom. If you push it back down it should be just as clean as the regular profiles at ISO 100.

So you don't need more light at all you need to re-think ISO and metering.

In a situation where you would have shot Natural at 6400 you would add 2.66 stops to the ISO and shoot V-Log at 40000, then push the exposure back down with the real time LUT.

You can make a lut like this right now with LutCalc:

And then you will have a Rec709 file with low noise and none of the artifacts (and none of the highlight headroom, but you won't need it because you're burning in the contrast)

Also, you're not limited to the V709 conversion (that curve is a bit weird IMO). You can try more contrasty curves in LutCalc, while keeping the gamut conversion. Or you can load up your favourite third party LUT, add the -2.66 exposure and re-export it.

PS: It looks like Exposure Offset Adjust (to re-calibrate the meter) is limited to 1 EV maximum so with that selected you'd be looking to hit +1.66 on the meter instead of +2.66. This would be your new "zero".

No light needed, just ISO. Of course above a certain level I think you lose PDAF?

I must doing something wrong because VLog is definitely more noisy, did you crop at 1:1 to compare ?

I use LutCalc and I use a Lut with -2.6 stop correction in Real Time Lut, of course my ISO value is higher in V-Log. To match ISO 100 in Natural I must use ISO 640/800 in V-log, but with this value there are more noise than Natural at ISO 100, and yet I use a curve which crush the shadows a lot. Easy to see the difference when cropping at 1:1.

Both my S5 and S1 with Natural look cleaner, and this is not due to noise reduction because the footage is full of details, zero smearing, the same level of details as V-Log with these cameras. 

I also get banding using V-Log on the S5II, and of course the lenses correction are not applied (unlike with the 709 profiles).