Panasonic S5 II (What does Panasonic have up their sleeve?)

[MrSMW]

Alter or something they were called?

[BTM_Pix]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Alter or something they were called?

Yes

https://petapixel.com/2019/05/29/alter-rfs-a-hinged-lens-filter-adapter-that-swings-out-of-the-way/

[Beritar]

On 5/24/2023 at 1:36 PM, hyalinejim said:

Yes, but I was talking about noise. Presumably, S1 709 is cleaner than S1 V-Log? I don't have an S1 so I don't know.

On the S5II it works, at least for the only L mount lens I own. Perspective is on by default and vignetting is user selectable.

Yes S1 709 is cleaner than S1 V-log but I don't understand how the S1 can keep every details without altered them if there is noise reduction. I only see noise, no sign of noise reduction. In any case, the S5II uses a different sort of noise reduction, much more aggresive with fine details.

Vignetting is corrected on the S5II but not chromatic abberations. On my 85mm Lumix S, I have a lot of them in V-log. In 709, they are corrected automatically.

[ac6000cw]

5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Yes

https://petapixel.com/2019/05/29/alter-rfs-a-hinged-lens-filter-adapter-that-swings-out-of-the-way/

...and I guess this is one of the Chinese knock-offs of it - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UURIG-R-77-77mm-Rapid-Filter-System-Lens-Filter-Metal-I2Z8/285223741334

[MrSMW]

22 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

...and I guess this is one of the Chinese knock-offs of it - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UURIG-R-77-77mm-Rapid-Filter-System-Lens-Filter-Metal-I2Z8/285223741334

Yup.

Anything like this is too easy to replicate!

[BTM_Pix]

It was Monty Python that invented it anyway.

[PannySVHS]

Awesome write up! Thanx a lot! @MrSMW

[Framed_By_Dan]

On 5/22/2023 at 10:18 AM, Beritar said:

Note than neither the S5 and the S1 have skin smoothing/chroma NR with the 709 profiles.

Hmm, I have to disagree, I still think there's something going on with the S1 footage. I use Natural tweaked a bit and it's definitely a bit plasticy looking compared to V-Log. Skin texture doesn't shine through the same either.

My settings for Natural are as follows:

Contrast -5

Highlight -2

Shadow +0.5

Saturation -3

Hue -0.5

Sharpness -5

NR - 5

I definitely felt the profile out the box was much more contrasty and had increased saturation compared to the GH line and have spent a bit of time getting them to match fairly closely. One other thing I noticed significantly is the terrible highlight roll off compared to the GH5/GH5S. Perhaps I'm exposing my image wrong/overexposing more on the S1 but if the meter shows anything beyond +2/3 over the highlights clip easily. I have to be super cautious. Compare that to when I shoot my GH5/GH5S/GH5 II (GH5 II especially) I can be pretty confident going to about +1, +1 2/3 and still not having super harsh clipped highlights. 

Most of the time the information is still there to reign in the highlights through a curves adjustment in post but I'd rather get fairly close in camera if I can. It's just a bit off putting when filming. 

Am I pushing the adjustments to the profile too far? I recently shot Flat with no adjustments except sharpness and NR down and it looked great (save for the highlights still being a bit hot). Some aspects of the colour came out a bit better too, however I can't completely switch to Flat due to having a couple of the older bodies in my fleet which don't have Flat.

On 5/22/2023 at 7:44 PM, hyalinejim said:

This is why you're not seeing it. A baked in LUT uses V-Log as its base picture style so it avoids the nasties that are in the regular profiles.

I have thought if I replace my GH5 with an S5IIX and shoot with a baked in Rec709 conversion (I like Davinci's CST for V-Log) that could be a way round it. Trouble is minimum ISO of 640 and I don't have time to use ND on run and gun shoots such as weddings.

[hyalinejim]

5 hours ago, Framed_By_Dan said:

One other thing I noticed significantly is the terrible highlight roll off

Yes, when I was making a curve that matched V-Log to Natural I noticed that Natural is basically just linear differences between stops from the lower midtones right up to the highlights with almost no discernible curve in the highlights at all, ie: no roll off!

5 hours ago, Framed_By_Dan said:

Trouble is minimum ISO of 640

In the same vein as I've been suggesting you could make a lut in Resolve and build in a -2.66 stop reduction in exposure and then effectively shoot at ISO 640 at ISO 100. If you're baking in a "normal contrast" lut in V-Log then you just don't need 6+stops above middle grey as as anything above 2 or 3 stops is way up near clipping anyway.

Note that Resolve's default conversion will look almost one stop underexposed - middle grey maps to 99 RGB instead of 126 (I see this happening a lot and I don't really understand why. Panasonic's conversion keeps middle grey at 42 IRE, but middle grey in Rec709 colour space is not 42 IRE, it's closer to 50. Other manufacturers do the same for their log conversions. Personally, I like middle grey to be middle grey.) So instead of 2.66 stops I would probably do an approximately 1.66 stop decrease in exposure for the real time lut, set my meter compensation to the maximum of one stop that it will allow and then aim to expose at +0.66 on the meter at ISO 640, yielding an image that is closer to what you'd get at ISO 100 with a normal profile. No NDs needed!

You can quickly get very close to this in the CST by selecting DaVinci in the Tone Mapping Method and setting Adaptation to 99. That will give you 4.3 stops above a middle grey of 129 RGB, and a gentle roll off into 7 or 8 stops below. That's a lot of dynamic range there, so there's a bit of wiggle room for accidental under- or over-exposure, and you could add quite a bit of midtone contrast in post.

[MrSMW]

7 hours ago, Framed_By_Dan said:

Trouble is minimum ISO of 640 and I don't have time to use ND on run and gun shoots such as weddings.

How so? I shoot hybrid all day long as a one man band with VND’s.

You just need a flip out hinged filter adapter and separate in camera settings for stills and video.

There’s more to it and that, but using it not using a VND can be a 1 second process.

[MrSMW]

The cart:

 

[BTM_Pix]

Wow, the cart AND the camper van?

”And when Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer.”

Curious about the tripod mounted gimbal - do you use that as a remote control PT head during the ceremony or is just purely for mounting purposes when not wafting it about ?

 

[Beritar]

11 hours ago, Framed_By_Dan said:

Hmm, I have to disagree, I still think there's something going on with the S1 footage. I use Natural tweaked a bit and it's definitely a bit plasticy looking compared to V-Log. Skin texture doesn't shine through the same either.

My settings for Natural are as follows:

Contrast -5

Highlight -2

Shadow +0.5

Saturation -3

Hue -0.5

Sharpness -5

NR - 5

I definitely felt the profile out the box was much more contrasty and had increased saturation compared to the GH line and have spent a bit of time getting them to match fairly closely. One other thing I noticed significantly is the terrible highlight roll off compared to the GH5/GH5S. Perhaps I'm exposing my image wrong/overexposing more on the S1 but if the meter shows anything beyond +2/3 over the highlights clip easily. I have to be super cautious. Compare that to when I shoot my GH5/GH5S/GH5 II (GH5 II especially) I can be pretty confident going to about +1, +1 2/3 and still not having super harsh clipped highlights. 

Most of the time the information is still there to reign in the highlights through a curves adjustment in post but I'd rather get fairly close in camera if I can. It's just a bit off putting when filming. 

Am I pushing the adjustments to the profile too far? I recently shot Flat with no adjustments except sharpness and NR down and it looked great (save for the highlights still being a bit hot). Some aspects of the colour came out a bit better too, however I can't completely switch to Flat due to having a couple of the older bodies in my fleet which don't have Flat.

I have thought if I replace my GH5 with an S5IIX and shoot with a baked in Rec709 conversion (I like Davinci's CST for V-Log) that could be a way round it. Trouble is minimum ISO of 640 and I don't have time to use ND on run and gun shoots such as weddings.

Do you use the last firmware on your S1 ? 
I never use the "Highlight" setting because it can quickly make the skin looking plastic.
Have you tried Cine-V ? This is the profile I use the most in low light and there is absolutely no difference in detail rendering between Cine-V and V-Log on my S1 with the last firmware.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

Wow, the cart AND the camper van?

”And when Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer.”

Curious about the tripod mounted gimbal - do you use that as a remote control PT head during the ceremony or is just purely for mounting purposes when not wafting it about ?

 

The camper as an all round business proposition, costs me approx 3500 euros less per annum over car + hotels etc with the added bonuses of always on site plus for family/personal use for ‘free’.

That’s my 90 euro cart fully loaded except back pack and 3 cameras on my person, but otherwise every bit of kit I use or might use on a job including 40m extension and 500wh power bank (both of which were in the bottom of the cart).

All lighting is mains, power bank or battery.

The gimbal is indeed mounted on a tripod for ceremony, speeches, entrances, exits etc, but on a quick release plate so can go into floaty mode within 2-3 seconds or go onto it’s mini tripod base also with QR plate.

It’s all about having the most minimal kit I can get away with, but without too much compromise and being able to use anything as quickly as possible and as fuss free as poss.

That is why my next ‘job’ is getting the number of bodies down from 4 to 3 or ideally 2 and currently only adapted Tamron/Nikon can do 2…

[BTM_Pix]

5 hours ago, MrSMW said:

The camper as an all round business proposition, costs me approx 3500 euros less per annum over car + hotels etc with the added bonuses of always on site plus for family/personal use for ‘free’.

I used to work out of my little Mazda Bongo camper a lot back in the day.

Same logic regarding the savings and convenience particularly when I had to cover games late at night or be at pressers first thing in the morning.

Great to use it as a mobile office as well to file from too.

The biggest cost savings were covering long multi day events away such as football tournaments and particularly like here when shooting the Tour de France.

Using the camper saved me a lot and meant I could ram it full of boxes gear as well as utilise it as a mounting point for remote cameras !

Its got me quite nostalgic for covering the Tour again to be honest, although these days it would be far more lucrative shooting it as a vanlife vlog than it would as an editorial photographer. 

[MrSMW]

12 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Same logic regarding the savings and convenience particularly when I had to cover games late at night or be at pressers first thing in the morning.

For me, it beats any/all other options hands down, means total self autonomy and is fun.

It wouldn’t work if I shot city centre weddings as parking would be an absolute nightmare/impossible, so only works for me because I work at chateaux and places like golf clubs or private resorts, which all have wide open parking.

Having said that, I have a Bordeaux city centre wedding in a couple of weeks and still need to work that one out… 🤪

 

[Thpriest]

I used to have a Nissan Serena with a bed in the back 2 rows. The best thing was it was discreet, it didn’t look like a campervan. Campervans are often targeted by thieves here in Spain. I need to check if I can get a mattress in the back of my Toyota Verso! 
I have to admire Mr. SMW. That’s a mad set up for one person!

[Thpriest]

Just to add, I’m doing a small hybrid wedding today, S5 photos and S5mk2 for video. I think eventually I will buy a second hand GX80 with a 12mm for a general 4k lock off ceremony cam which is small  to carry.

I am going to invest in those flip up filter things. I have the Xuma magnetic things which work fine with one camera but now I have a harness with 2 cams the VND has been knocked off a couple of times as it hung by my side!

[Framed_By_Dan]

On 5/27/2023 at 10:33 AM, Beritar said:

Do you use the last firmware on your S1 ? 
I never use the "Highlight" setting because it can quickly make the skin looking plastic.
Have you tried Cine-V ? This is the profile I use the most in low light and there is absolutely no difference in detail rendering between Cine-V and V-Log on my S1 with the last firmware.

Yes I'm on the latest firmware. I was very keen to see what the 6K/5.9K looked like...glorious! Anyway, yes I think bringing the highlights down might be my own undoing, thinking it's "better" in a way when it's probably not. Just knocked it back a touch to -1 to see if that helps. Boosted saturation back a touch too, I find when underexposing the colour tends to disappear so anything I can do to negate that helps.

I do like Cine V, colours are nice especially skin tones, but still just a touch too punchy for my liking when I am grading on top later. I use a slightly tweaked Cine V for quick turnaround jobs where no grading is required. 

[zerocool22]

Haa I just now saw the s5 II also can get the BRAW upgrade for 200$ over HDMI. Are there any braw recorders out there that are small and battery efficient. As the bm video assists are heavy and power hungry. 

Already have the S5 II, If I would have known I might have just bought the S5IIX.