Panasonic S5 II (What does Panasonic have up their sleeve?)

[kye]

1 hour ago, Geoffrey said:

S5 user here and a bit late to the party (been using the camera!) and only just aware for the S5ii. I am not much of a technical type but have enough interest to skim read through this whole topic.

Cut to the chase, from what I have read I am not seeing a compelling reason at present for me to upgrade to an S5ii. Would the forum agree given what I say below?

I use Cine D2 profile a lot, have little interest in LUTs and the like (at the moment anyway), find the AF on the S5 generally good enough for my needs (though something a bit more reliable in certain situations would be nice), love the image quality,  look and ergonomics of the S5, still shoot mostly in HD (though guess that will change) and audio is very important. As an audio person generally I don't get why people are so excited about 96KHz as it is way OTT and unnecessary; 24bit is way more important. I mostly record audio to a Tascam device (XLR) mounted under the camera with a minijack output of it into the camera as a backup (currently on a three mic setup - COS-11D radio mic and a stereo DPA spaced pair).. My whole setup is designed so I can carry the camera with one hand and do everything alone, so the DPAs and radio receiver are mounted on top of the camera. Have the 20-60mm kit lens and a 50mm fixed one but mainly use the former for its versatility. 

I'm not across the details of the S5 vs S5ii, but as a general rule I think you should only upgrade equipment when the upgrade will fix an issue that you routinely have when using your existing equipment, or it would increase the quality of your output in some way that matters to you (e.g. can you charge more, or get the same result in less time, etc).

This philosophy helps cut out the temptation to upgrade because the grass seems greener, the manufacturers marketing looked enticing, or you are playing 'what if', which are all normal human reactions and completely understandable, but don't actually help in being more effective/efficient.

[Thpriest]

Agree with kye. 
In my case the EVF, AF, punch in to check focus while recording and 6K were compelling reasons. The fan a bonus piece of mind although I’ve never had problems with over heating even when filming in 35-40 degrees for long periods of time.

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, kye said:

as a general rule I think you should only upgrade equipment when the upgrade will fix an issue that you routinely have when using your existing equipment, or it would increase the quality of your output in some way that matters to you (e.g. can you charge more, or get the same result in less time, etc).

This for me and this only. It has to be quantifiable.

I just traded 2x (used) S1R’s plus 65mm and 24-105mm lenses, for another (used) S5ii and a (used) 70-200 f4 because it will both make my actual shoot workflow better and improve my end output.

Ie, less kit to carry (2 bodies + 2 lenses swapped for 1 body + 1 lens) and fumble about with, but extends my focal range from what was capped at 105 up to 200.

Less fumbling about = both less fatigue and more focus which = greater creativity which = more/better material to then work with…which should lead to an elevated level of output that will increase my own job satisfaction plus attract an ever higher quality of client with ever higher budgets.

It all boils down to making decisions that either have a high probability of, or even better, a guarantee of making ‘everything’ work better for you.

But if it ain’t broke… and in your case @Geoffrey it sounds like it ain’t broke.

[Geoffrey]

6 hours ago, Thpriest said:

Agree with kye. 
In my case the EVF, AF, punch in to check focus while recording and 6K were compelling reasons. The fan a bonus piece of mind although I’ve never had problems with over heating even when filming in 35-40 degrees for long periods of time.

I noticed the fan and actually this put me off a little as they can be noisy and I have mics on top of the cam. What's your experience?

[mercer]

@Geoffrey there's also the idea that you upgrade to keep your investment at a certain level. When a new camera comes out, the old model's value goes down quick. If you don't need the upgrades and don't plan on needing anything more for a few years, then yes... you might as well keep it. Who cares if the used value drops in half over the next year.

But in some instances small upgrades can eventually allow you to afford a higher price bracket of cameras. So if you sell the S5 now, you may get $1000 for it and you'd only need to shell out $800 for the new camera. If you wait a year, you may have to shell out more. If you skip a generation entirely, you may have to shell out a fortune more.

With that said, I've been shooting with the same camera for almost 6 years, so every case is different.

Good luck.

[Geoffrey]

Thanks all, sound advice indeed!

And MrSMW totally agree about less fumbling about - I have spent the last year trying to ensure my setup incurs the least fumbling as possible, mainly so I can focus on creativity and helping the 'talent' feel easy and attended to. The biggest aim was to be able to mount the rig on the tripod then when desired, simply lift the whole thing off with one hand and carry on as before. I even sized up the dimensions of the bag so the rig can already be setup so I just have to lift it out the bag virtually ready to go.

[Geoffrey]

5 minutes ago, mercer said:

@Geoffrey there's also the idea that you upgrade to keep your investment at a certain level. When a new camera comes out, the old model's value goes down quick. If you don't need the upgrades and don't plan on needing anything more for a few years, then yes... you might as well keep it. Who cares if the used value drops in half over the next year.

But in some instances small upgrades can eventually allow you to afford a higher price bracket of cameras. So if you sell the S5 now, you may get $1000 for it and you'd only need to shell out $800 for the new camera. If you wait a year, you may have to shell out more. If you skip a generation entirely, you may have to shell out a fortune more.

With that said, I've been shooting with the same camera for almost 6 years, so every case is different.

Good luck.

Good point. Its funny in life in general I tend to use things till they either break or really do become prohibitively obsolete / old and in danger of breaking. Then buy new again. Just my philosophy, maybe because I find it too easy to get dragged into the 'rat race' of constant new tech awareness. Of course with computers this is really problematic because the b******* make it virtually impossible to use perfectly functioning older machines (though I am typing this on a 2011, 17" Macbook)!

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, Geoffrey said:

And MrSMW totally agree about less fumbling about - I have spent the last year trying to ensure my setup incurs the least fumbling as possible

It’s been my biggest source of frustration for some time now recognizing that the tools were getting in the way…but at the same time recognizing that unless I got that part of the puzzle sorted, I could not fully focus on other aspects.

It’s taken a while and far too much faffing about, but I have finally sorted it out to my satisfaction.

And that’s what we all need to do, ie, do what works for each of us as individuals because often what works for one, does not work for another!

[MrSMW]

Actually I will elaborate on just how long it has taken me, but as briefly as possible…

I was shooting Fuji hybrid up to 2019, but that system did not quite have the set up it offers today.

I had big (creative) plans for 2020, but Covid reduced my booked weddings from 30 to just 1.

I then took the opportunity to switch to Lumix and the S5.

With hindsight, that was a sideways step.

It was all supposed to then happen with the 2021 season but again, Covid did for it with what ended up as 5/30 and another frustrating year.

2022? So swamped with work it was an exercise to simply keep my head above water. No complaints about having work but there’s having work and bouncing off burn out and that is no good for creativity.

2023? OK start but the first few jobs I found I was still wrestling with the gear, despite thinking I had cracked it over the Winter. Paper plans and all that…

I then cracked my own personal formula needs and again, with hindsight, it seemed so obvious but that’s how it goes sometimes.

I’m currently waiting on one tiny piece of kit I can easily live without but otherwise I have finally been able to flip that creativity switch I wanted to turn on 3+ years ago.

We get there in the end…

The S5ii has been a large part of the puzzle.

[Geoffrey]

3 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Actually I will elaborate on just how long it has taken me, but as briefly as possible…

I was shooting Fuji hybrid up to 2019, but that system did not quite have the set up it offers today.

I had big (creative) plans for 2020, but Covid reduced my booked weddings from 30 to just 1.

I then took the opportunity to switch to Lumix and the S5.

With hindsight, that was a sideways step.

It was all supposed to then happen with the 2021 season but again, Covid did for it with what ended up as 5/30 and another frustrating year.

2022? So swamped with work it was an exercise to simply keep my head above water. No complaints about having work but there’s having work and bouncing off burn out and that is no good for creativity.

2023? OK start but the first few jobs I found I was still wrestling with the gear, despite thinking I had cracked it over the Winter. Paper plans and all that…

I then cracked my own personal formula needs and again, with hindsight, it seemed so obvious but that’s how it goes sometimes.

I’m currently waiting on one tiny piece of kit I can easily live without but otherwise I have finally been able to flip that creativity switch I wanted to turn on 3+ years ago.

We get there in the end…

The S5ii has been a large part of the puzzle.

Yeah I get the evolution and steps forwards and sideways. With me it was more focussed on audio as I am into that.

I started using a great little Juiced Link mixer for the three mics, mounted under the cam, mixing in the field and feeding it straight into the cam which worked OK and was very streamlined. But phasing issues could never be fixed that way and they irritated. So I got a zoom h5 which is great but it proved unwieldy mounted on top, so moved to the Tascam 70D (4-track), perfectly designed to mount under the camera, with a line out to the cam as backup. This works great as I can mix the three tracks in post and ironing out any phase issues and balancing.

Then there's the whole story of a bespoke method of mounting the tiny DPAs and the radio mic receiver on the top of the cam. But that is even more boring!

With the camera itself, I use it as it comes basically, couple of Leica lenses, camera profiles. Spent plenty of time finding the optimum settings obviously. Learnt a lot about different, efficient focussing methods.

I feel generally comfortable with it all now for what I do and I can get very good sound and pretty good image.

[newfoundmass]

14 hours ago, Geoffrey said:

S5 user here and a bit late to the party (been using the camera!) and only just aware for the S5ii. I am not much of a technical type but have enough interest to skim read through this whole topic.

Cut to the chase, from what I have read I am not seeing a compelling reason at present for me to upgrade to an S5ii. Would the forum agree given what I say below?

I use Cine D2 profile a lot, have little interest in LUTs and the like (at the moment anyway), find the AF on the S5 generally good enough for my needs (though something a bit more reliable in certain situations would be nice), love the image quality,  look and ergonomics of the S5, still shoot mostly in HD (though guess that will change) and audio is very important. As an audio person generally I don't get why people are so excited about 96KHz as it is way OTT and unnecessary; 24bit is way more important. I mostly record audio to a Tascam device (XLR) mounted under the camera with a minijack output of it into the camera as a backup (currently on a three mic setup - COS-11D radio mic and a stereo DPA spaced pair).. My whole setup is designed so I can carry the camera with one hand and do everything alone, so the DPAs and radio receiver are mounted on top of the camera. Have the 20-60mm kit lens and a 50mm fixed one but mainly use the former for its versatility. 

 

As someone that is using two S5 bodies and a GH5 for a multicam set up...

If you don't find yourself in a situation where you're struggling with something that the S5ii would do better, then there isn't really a compelling reason to "upgrade."

My plan is to upgrade to the S5ii (or S5iix) in a couple years, when a successor to it or the S1/S1H is released and the used price goes down. I made a post a few weeks back talking about how I am done buying new and am perfectly content with being a generation behind, because all of these cameras are so good at this point that it doesn't really matter. Yeah, there are definitely quality of life upgrades but none of them are worth the cost for me. The S5 will produce an excellent image for years to come, and ultimately that's what matters to me. When the used price becomes compelling enough I'll start planning to upgrade, but I'm done investing thousands of dollars into camera bodies that won't retain their value much at all. I'll let others take that hit and just wait. 🙂

[TomTheDP]

Yeah I have always loved the idea of AF but in practice have never liked it even with Sony and Canon. Maybe I just don't do enough event work or weddings though.

[FHDcrew]

33 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

As someone that is using two S5 bodies and a GH5 for a multicam set up...

If you don't find yourself in a situation where you're struggling with something that the S5ii would do better, then there isn't really a compelling reason to "upgrade."

My plan is to upgrade to the S5ii (or S5iix) in a couple years, when a successor to it or the S1/S1H is released and the used price goes down. I made a post a few weeks back talking about how I am done buying new and am perfectly content with being a generation behind, because all of these cameras are so good at this point that it doesn't really matter. Yeah, there are definitely quality of life upgrades but none of them are worth the cost for me. The S5 will produce an excellent image for years to come, and ultimately that's what matters to me. When the used price becomes compelling enough I'll start planning to upgrade, but I'm done investing thousands of dollars into camera bodies that won't retain their value much at all. I'll let others take that hit and just wait. 🙂

I love this approach. My mentality has really been shifting. To one of maximizing and being content with what I have. Some gear upgrades are awesome. A good lens. C-stands. Diffusion fabrics and floppies. Quality audio gear. I’m tired of looking towards the latest and greatest camera. Because the pursuit of that is endless. Where does it stop?  It doesn’t. You get a perfectly great camera, and then a “better” one comes out and you just have to upgrade. And that mentality gets pushed so hard on YouTube. Even on this forum sometimes. I’d prefer to just get to know my current camera better and become better in skill. I’ve been seeing this happen. What I get out of my Nikon Z6 8-bit flat footage is better than what I used to get out of 10 bit NLOG Prores. I’m not going to upgrade my camera for a while. 

[FHDcrew]

Just think…these cameras, the original S5, FX30, Fuji XT3/4/5/XS20, Nikon Z6 + Ninja, current gen bodies like the FX3, ZVE1, R6 II, these give us all of the image quality we need. We literally don’t need better until sometime comes out with Alexa-level DR and color. Nowadays I view upgrading cameras as just quality of life improvements. Because my setup can achieve as good of an image as I will ever need. 10-bit, full frame 4k in LOG…is all you need. You genuinely don’t need better.

[FHDcrew]

“Crappy” 8-bit 420 non-log. 

[Thpriest]

12 hours ago, Geoffrey said:

I noticed the fan and actually this put me off a little as they can be noisy and I have mics on top of the cam. What's your experience?

I've never heard the fan come on but we've been having weird weather here in Madrid. Last year it was 37-40 degrees at this time of year, this year it's 22-27 degrees and lots of much needed rain. I'll find out more over the summer but the fan has controls. You can turn it off or adjust it.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, Thpriest said:

I've never heard the fan come on

I haven't either in my S1H nor my S5ii and the S5ii this year has sat out in 30 degrees C (in the shade) in direct sunlight for 30+ minutes.

[newfoundmass]

14 hours ago, FHDcrew said:

I love this approach. My mentality has really been shifting. To one of maximizing and being content with what I have. Some gear upgrades are awesome. A good lens. C-stands. Diffusion fabrics and floppies. Quality audio gear. I’m tired of looking towards the latest and greatest camera. Because the pursuit of that is endless. Where does it stop?  It doesn’t. You get a perfectly great camera, and then a “better” one comes out and you just have to upgrade. And that mentality gets pushed so hard on YouTube. Even on this forum sometimes. I’d prefer to just get to know my current camera better and become better in skill. I’ve been seeing this happen. What I get out of my Nikon Z6 8-bit flat footage is better than what I used to get out of 10 bit NLOG Prores. I’m not going to upgrade my camera for a while. 

When I sold most of my M43 gear to get the S5 bodies I was very briefly bummed when the S5ii was announced. But then I remembered that I basically paid slightly more to get two S5 bodies than what I'd have paid to get one S5ii. I think I paid about $2100 total for both, after selling the extra accessories I didn't need that came with them? And those two, along with my GH5, will be a powerful trio for years to come, especially when it comes to event videography.

I got the most out of my small budget and couldn't be happier. And when the time comes to upgrade, I'll do the same and be just as happy because I didn't spend thousands of dollars on a camera that immediately lost hundreds in value once I opened the box. Waiting two or three years to buy a S5ii or S5iix for %50 less than what I'd have paid for it brand new sounds like a pretty good plan to me! I'll give them a nice new home and lease on life! 🙂

[hyalinejim]

Yep, if you don't need AF then the S5II is a minor upgrade - possibly even a downgrade if you're concerned about sharpening in V-Log and other issues with standard profiles already mentioned in this thread.

[FHDcrew]

3 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

Yep, if you don't need AF then the S5II is a minor upgrade - possibly even a downgrade if you're concerned about sharpening in V-Log and other issues with standard profiles already mentioned in this thread.

Yep and there is also the S1 which gives a bigger body and full size hdmi, also an awesome cheap alternative to the S5 II. If I weren’t already using my Nikon Z6+Ninka V & Star, I would probably be shooting on the S1.