Panasonic S5 II (What does Panasonic have up their sleeve?)

[newfoundmass]

10 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Sorry to hear about your medical issues and great to hear you are on the road to recovery.

I echo your thoughts about this place.

My last few weeks have been spent at my Mother’s bedside as she drifted away to her passing.

In times like that of huge change and trauma we look for constants to keep us connected to “normal” life.

In that respect, checking into here every now and again to find everyone having the same circular arguments was oddly comforting.

And I honestly mean that with love.

I'm so sorry for your loss! And I understand completely!

[IronFilm]

16 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Things were quite a bit different in 2019 and none of us knew what was coming in 2020 or 2021

Biggest understatement on this forum

13 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

• If it's got IBIS - "It's not small enough and it's too heavy"
• The battery life is too short

IBIS would make the battery life shorter too

5 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Nothing short of total armageddon will change that.

That will be 2024

[kye]

15 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Sorry to hear about your medical issues and great to hear you are on the road to recovery.

I echo your thoughts about this place.

My last few weeks have been spent at my Mother’s bedside as she drifted away to her passing.

In times like that of huge change and trauma like that we look for constants to keep us connected to “normal” life.

In that respect, checking into here every now and again to find everyone having the same circular arguments.

And I honestly mean that with love.

My condolences about your mother.

We're here for you - especially if it involves fighting over irrelevant technical details!

15 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

I'd also love them to do 1), but I can imagine some of the YouTube influencer/reviewer comments:

• It's expensive
• It overheats recording 4k60p after 10 minutes
• if it's really small and light - "There's no IBIS"
• If it's got IBIS - "It's not small enough and it's too heavy"
• The battery life is too short
• It doesn't have a fully articulated/flip out screen
• There's no headphone jack

Most of the above list would not actually be issues for the vast majority of potential buyers if it was cheap enough, but it would be a hard sell if it's almost as expensive as a G9ii

Maybe the answer would be to market it as a Leica camera?

I've said it previously, but I actually don't have a huge list of wants for an updated GX-line camera, and the GX85 is now my daily driver as-it-were.

I've heard people ask for a range of improvements but they all seem quite modest actually.  Things like PDAF, 10-bit, LOG, full-sensor readout, etc.  These may well only require a sensor upgrade and a processor upgrade, perhaps to existing chipsets that aren't even the latest generation, which may not actually require that much additional power / cooling / space.

At the moment the GX85 already has:

• IBIS / Dual-IS
• Tilt screen / touch screen
• EVF
• half-decent codec
• etc etc

Plus, it's right at the limit of actually being too small from an ergonomic perspective.  The grip design on it is really quite effective and I enjoy using it, but I probably wouldn't want it to be any smaller.  If it had a slightly larger grip then that would actually be an advantage ergonomically, wouldn't make the camera much bigger in practice because it would still be smaller than most lenses, and would allow for a larger battery size.

With proper colour management it is actually a very malleable image too, I did an expose test with it some time ago, doing exposures under and over and bringing them back to normal in post, and while the DR wasn't great, the image was very workable.

11 hours ago, John Matthews said:

And on and on we go. I don't think there's any way to universally "win". In fact, I don't think any manufacturer has any real incentive to make the "perfect" camera. If they did, why would you ever buy anything else?

The endless pursuit of megapixels has proven that a feature can be designed and then marketed and people will go nuts over it, despite the fact that it's not of any practical use to most consumers and it also requires upgrading of all associated equipment in turn.  

I think this shows that even if you did make a perfect camera for the people who shoot, the people who like progress for its own sake will always think that the perfect camera is the next one.

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

That will be 2024

Please no!!!!!

[MrSMW]

8 hours ago, kye said:

Please no!!!!!

I was just skimming the news this morning and the verdict was:

Ukraine vs Russia

South vs North Korea

Israel vs Hamas...and maybe others

China vs Taiwan/Japan/US

A straw thatched buffoon vs an old man

The United Kingdom.

YouTube comments

Other assorted fuckwits

Random shit

I think I'm going to go back to doing what I did during Covid and that is stop looking at the news completely. Because it's utterly depressing.

[ac6000cw]

8 hours ago, kye said:

I've said it previously, but I actually don't have a huge list of wants for an updated GX-line camera, and the GX85 is now my daily driver as-it-were.

I've heard people ask for a range of improvements but they all seem quite modest actually.  Things like PDAF, 10-bit, LOG, full-sensor readout, etc.  These may well only require a sensor upgrade and a processor upgrade, perhaps to existing chipsets that aren't even the latest generation, which may not actually require that much additional power / cooling / space.

At the moment the GX85 already has:

• IBIS / Dual-IS
• Tilt screen / touch screen
• EVF
• half-decent codec
• etc etc

Plus, it's right at the limit of actually being too small from an ergonomic perspective.  The grip design on it is really quite effective and I enjoy using it, but I probably wouldn't want it to be any smaller.  If it had a slightly larger grip then that would actually be an advantage ergonomically, wouldn't make the camera much bigger in practice because it would still be smaller than most lenses, and would allow for a larger battery size.

I agree the GX85 is one of those cameras where the design and features were 'just right' when it came out. Its main problem (for me) is the on-board audio is poor (terrible electrical/IBIS noise breakthrough) and there's no mic jack, so getting decent audio means using a separate recorder.

Wanting a genuinely pocket-sized camera with decent video and on-board audio, plus reasonable stabilization and a mic jack, I've just bought a refurbished Sony ZV-1 (original version). Only had it a few days and been able to test it much yet, but so far I'm quite impressed with the performance of such a compact camera (and the build quality seems pretty good - it's a nice solid-feeling camera, like the GX85 is). It's only a 1" sensor, but it's BSI with reasonably low rolling shutter and decent low-light performance.

Quick size comparison of HX99/ZV-1/GX800/GX85/X-S20  - https://camerasize.com/compact/#797,847,699.397,673.397,908.706,ha,t

(I also own the Sony HX99 small-sensor/30x zoom camera on the far left - that really is small!)

 

 

[PannySVHS]

I cannot say much but give you two dear forum friends a hug in spirit and from my heart. This forum has been a comforting place for me as well. A puny little camera, nobody took serious back then for video, but you image lovers did, was my rock to hold onto in the roughest of my times, a black small GX85, my dearest trusty video mate. I filmed butterflies with it and my parents garden. I will never make fun of anyone filming flowers, except when they do it with a Leica.:)

[newfoundmass]

8 hours ago, MrSMW said:

A straw thatched buffoon vs an old man

Plz don't remind me!

[IronFilm]

16 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

I agree the GX85 is one of those cameras where the design and features were 'just right' when it came out. Its main problem (for me) is the on-board audio is poor (terrible electrical/IBIS noise breakthrough) and there's no mic jack, so getting decent audio means using a separate recorder.

With the boom in vlogging and social media it's insane to release a camera without at least a 3.5mm mic jack 

16 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

Wanting a genuinely pocket-sized camera with decent video and on-board audio, plus reasonable stabilization and a mic jack, I've just bought a refurbished Sony ZV-1 (original version).

Hmmm... I should check out the Sony ZV-1 if I'm foolish enough to buy another camera in 2024

[kye]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

With the boom in vlogging and social media it's insane to release a camera without at least a 3.5mm mic jack 

It probably wouldn't be too hard to adjust the screen tilt mechanism to make it pop up and become a selfie screen too, which would make it infinitely more attractive to that market segment.

Of course, the clash between an on-camera mic and tilt-up selfie screen is a difficult one to reconcile, as many/most vloggers view both as a requirement.  They could take notes from other manufacturers and sell a separate mic that uses the hot-shoe (and therefore camera power) and also doesn't get in the way of the flip-up screen, that would be awesome!

17 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

Quick size comparison of HX99/ZV-1/GX800/GX85/X-S20  - https://camerasize.com/compact/#797,847,699.397,673.397,908.706,ha,t

(I also own the Sony HX99 small-sensor/30x zoom camera on the far left - that really is small!)

I did a bit of googling on that Sony HX99 and it looks like an interesting little camera.  When you have gotten familiar with the ZV-1 it would be interesting to see a comparison between them.  Of course, we can anticipate that low-light will be a weaker area for it of course.

[eatstoomuchjam]

I've had a ZV-1 since it was released (and I had a few of the RX100's before it - including the V which is basically the same camera as the ZV-1, but without the flippy screen).

IMO it's still by far one of the best vlogging cameras ever made, especially with the remote control handgrip that expands into a mini-tripod.  Built-in ND, 3.5mm audio jack, good autofocus, flippy screen, 1" sensor, and a not-too-terrible codec.  Weaknesses are skin tones straight out of camera and at its widest, the lens is about equivalent to a 24mm in ff terms which is a little tighter than a lot of vloggers prefer (if only it could zoom out to 20mm).

If your use case isn't vlogging, as I mentioned, it's basically the same camera as the RX 100 V which merely has a tilty screen (and the cutest lil' pop-up EVF).  I'm sure I'm forgetting some other small differences (the V might be a little thinner because of the lack of flip-out screen), but unless you're trying to record yourself at arm's length, I'd get whichever is cheaper.

[MrSMW]

Had them both, RX100V and the ZV1 and both brilliant little, genuinely pocketable cameras which I have used as part of a set up or solely for wedding video.

The only real issues I came across were low light performance and overheating, but otherwise great bits of kit.

[IronFilm]

5 hours ago, kye said:

Of course, the clash between an on-camera mic and tilt-up selfie screen is a difficult one to reconcile, as many/most vloggers view both as a requirement.

Just put the mic input on the opposite side! 

Or put the mic input on the top, like the URSA Mini does! (a bit of a dumb design, but "ok" if you have a rubber cover for it?)

[kye]

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Just put the mic input on the opposite side! 

Or put the mic input on the top, like the URSA Mini does! (a bit of a dumb design, but "ok" if you have a rubber cover for it?)

I was talking about the location of the hot-shoe, which is where you'd mount the mic on this hypothetical small vlogging camera.  No point having a flip-up screen for vlogging if the mic will obscure it.  

That's why cameras with the flip-up screens like the G7X don't have a hot-shoe and require external accessories:

or they have a hot-shoe and have a flippy screen, not a tilt-up one:

....and before you start mixing vlogging with a pocket camera with rigging out a cinema camera, by the time you have to put a cage on it, you might as well use a bigger camera that already has a mic port, interchangeable lenses, 4k120p, 15 stops of DR, and all the other crap that the independent-Sony-marketing-affiliates camera reviewers all use.

[PannySVHS]

On 11/20/2023 at 8:33 AM, MrSMW said:

I assume you have the red box on record set up?

But apart from that, I have hit record before in a fast paced situation only to discover I didn’t…or double-tapped…or am actually stopping the recording but have a minute or so of blurry footage of the ground 🤪

I have not been aware of red box yet. Is it a red frame around the image? Was not aware of that feature.

I was able to lock the shutter button during video recording. Found it in Panasonics official pdf manual, on page 8. Firmware 2.0 is needed.

One remark on ergos, I would like the on/off button to be located away from the shutter button in a next S1H or any Lumix camera. That is one major dislike for me so far when doing stripped down handheld filming.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

I have not been aware of red box yet. Is it a red frame around the image? Was not aware of that feature.

I was able to lock the shutter button during video recording. Found it in Panasonics official pdf manual, on page 8. Firmware 2.0 is needed.

One remark on ergos, I would like the on/off button to be located away from the shutter button in a next S1H or any Lumix camera. That is one major dislike for me so far when doing stripped down handheld filming.

Yes, red box around the frame and you can set up a tally light also.

Re. the on/off switch, - just goes to show we all have different preferences. I like where it is on the S1H and hated where it was on the S1R!

I wish I could go to a 3 identical body set up for the muscle memory...but I doubt it will ever happen for me now as my next set up will either be 3 different or 4 different bodies...but hey ho 🤪

[PannySVHS]

7 hours ago, MrSMW said:

4 different bodies...but hey ho 🤪

Three Z8 and that new Nikon Vintage Kid. Weight estate unaltered.😊 If a S2H comes around the corner with internal BRaw, 6K60p and Dweual Gain monster sensor, then what!😂 I find that on/off switch on the S1H nor super reassuring and a bit flimsy. On the S1 it is way more solid and really clunky, like its stainless steal mounted heavy duty tilt screen. And it is positioned on a way better spot. On the S1H it's located too close to being switched off accidently when holding for handheld filming imo.

[hojomo]

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

Three Z8 and that new Nikon Vintage Kid. Weight estate unaltered.😊 If a S2H comes around the corner with internal BRaw, 6K60p and Dweual Gain monster sensor, then what!😂 I find that on/off switch on the S1H nor super reassuring and a bit flimsy. On the S1 it is way more solid and really clunky, like its stainless steal mounted heavy duty tilt screen. And it is positioned on a way better spot. On the S1H it's located too close to being switched off accidently when holding for handheld filming imo.

coming from mostly Nikon shooting I found the position familiar. I guess it depends on hand size; but I have never felt like I was about to trigger it accidentally and the grip in my hand feels very nice.  I hate the position of the click wheel at the backside of the grip way more than that. Had to map it to shutter angle as the least damaging feature while shooting explicitly because that is what I constantly accidentally engage.

The lock switch is used for any really important shooting and I wish all cameras had it (along with Nikon's sensor guard). 

[MrSMW]

10 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Three Z8 and that new Nikon Vintage Kid

If you are paying 💰 sure, but actually, nah, as a set up, too big, too heavy and I don’t need 4 Nikon cameras.

All I need is my faux vintage camera, a single Z8 and if flipping entirely over to Nikon for everything, then a single Z6iii.

And if a Z6iii is not available and in my hands by end of March 2024, then I will be sticking with my L Mount set up for all things video.

And what if Lumix pop out an S2H or S2R in the meantime?

It won’t make any difference. Maybe one day down the line, but at least not in 2024 because it’s lens choices that are primarily driving my decisions.

L Mount has great glass, but not for the way I work. Not without big compromise and that’s what I am sick to death of, - trying to work around it and being continually frustrated all season long.

Brand affiliation is way down my list of important factors. This is a case of which tools are best suited to my specific need within a specific budget.

Right now, there are two options.

I’d rather go all in with one single brand (in my case single camera brand Nikon and adapted lenses from Tamron) but 99% as happy to stick with a Lumix/Sigma plus Nikon/Tamron for 2024.

 

[John Matthews]

So, a bunch of Lumix Youtubers are again together in California. We also know they've signed NDA's. What do you reckon this is about? GH7? That's my guess.

[MrSMW]

GH7 or S1 replacement for sure.

I hope it’s the latter because it’s far more interesting. To me anyway 😉