Panasonic S5 II (What does Panasonic have up their sleeve?)

[MrSMW]

I’d like to see any GH7 go modular.

Small boxy body, add on various grip options, or rig it etc.

Why ‘everything’ has to be black lumps of molded SLR body types, I have no idea.

The Sigma FP is a case example of what could be.

Camera options are generally pretty boring…

[Beritar]

On 1/6/2024 at 6:01 PM, MrSMW said:

I haven’t found it huge or even that significant, but the output from the S1H is definitely ‘nicer’ and more ha, ‘cinematic’.

Has to be the combo of that different sensor and the OLPF.

I have been giving it some thought just how I might use my pair this year and had settled on S1H + battery grip + 70-200 on tripod with S5ii + 28-70 on roaming duty, but I’m thinking now I might just pick up a battery grip for the S5ii, take the grip off the S1H and then swap the lenses around so the S1H becomes my run & gun.

6k 30p for the S1H and the S5ii can do 4k 60p for the long static stuff and tracking shots. I could and even perhaps should, use 4k or even 6k 30p for the static stuff, but I’d forget to switch and find that every time I wanted some slo mo, I had no suitable footage, heat of the moment and all that!

Do you shoot with the standard profiles or in V-Log ? A lot of people don't really see the difference in V-Log, but the standard profiles are really much worse, especially in 4K or C4K, a very bad mix of over-sharpening and chroma noise reduction.

This is why I use most of the time 6K or 6K Open gate V-Log on the S5II. But on these resolutions, the IBIS is much worse than on 4K and C4K... Walking while recording is very difficult because the cameras makes more "jumps".
 

[MrSMW]

V-log daytime inc. indoors and only flip to the Flat profile once it’s dark and we are firmly in 6400+ territory.

S1H can have forward tracking AF issues  but sometimes is pretty OK f4-8, but 4k or 6k, not really noticed much difference, other than crop mode obviously has the best AF.

I never walk with these things. It’s gimbal or stand still. I can’t see anything but issues when folks expect and try and use cameras without proper stabilization.

I’ve seen so many examples of ‘gimbal like’ and nah, it’s not. 

Maybe in some instances with mid length lenses and a ton of extra stab (and cropping) in post, but sorry, just not a fan of any of it and it’s all a bit (a lot) square peg, round hole and wishful thinking to me.

Action cams and the DJI Pockets etc, fair enough, but ‘proper’ cameras. Gimbal or steady cam it etc IMO.

Personal opinion and preference.

[Mark Romero 2]

On 1/7/2024 at 12:41 PM, MrSMW said:

V-log daytime inc. indoors and only flip to the Flat profile once it’s dark and we are firmly in 6400+ territory.

S1H can have forward tracking AF issues  but sometimes is pretty OK f4-8, but 4k or 6k, not really noticed much difference, other than crop mode obviously has the best AF.

I never walk with these things. It’s gimbal or stand still. I can’t see anything but issues when folks expect and try and use cameras without proper stabilization.

I’ve seen so many examples of ‘gimbal like’ and nah, it’s not. 

Maybe in some instances with mid length lenses and a ton of extra stab (and cropping) in post, but sorry, just not a fan of any of it and it’s all a bit (a lot) square peg, round hole and wishful thinking to me.

Action cams and the DJI Pockets etc, fair enough, but ‘proper’ cameras. Gimbal or steady cam it etc IMO.

Personal opinion and preference.

This might have already been discussed here, but I wonder how you (and others) feel about the image quality of the S5II / S5IIX versus the S1H or the original S5?

It seems like half the owners of the S5II find it to be fine / on-par with the first generation S-series cameras, while about half the owners really dislike how it looks.

I am talking about h.264 and h.265 recorded internally.

Apparently, V-LOG is pretty similar between the generations, but when shooting in pircure profiles other than V-LOG, there are complaints that the noise reudction is turned up so high that fine details are lost, and at the same time, edge sharpening is cranked up too high.

https://youtu.be/EomxyU1rUhs?si=nlX1Fb8Owvu5yoHD

Also, i got to ask: how in the world are you able to shoot both video AND stills at a wedding? Even though it is relatively easy to set up custom settings on Panasonic cameras, switching back and forth between video and stills is just so daunting. I generally shoot video on a gimbal (weebill S), with the B Cam (my S1) on a tripod. Having to switch from video to stills when on a gimbal seems impossible to me.

[MrSMW]

43 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

This might have already been discussed here, but I wonder how you (and others) feel about the image quality of the S5II / S5IIX versus the S1H or the original S5?

I only shoot Vlog in good light and Flat profile after dark and IMO no difference really other than against the S1H which produces a slightly nicer result probably due to the OLPF?

45 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Also, i got to ask: how in the world are you able to shoot both video AND stills at a wedding?

Same way as how in the hell does someone juggle 10 balls or 3 chainsaws… 😉

[kye]

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

Same way as how in the hell does someone juggle 10 balls or 3 chainsaws… 😉

Very very carefully?

[IronFilm]

On 1/8/2024 at 8:20 AM, MrSMW said:

I’d like to see any GH7 go modular.

That would be any future "Panasonic BGH2" (with a GH7 sensor hopefully). 

 

[MrSMW]

5 hours ago, kye said:

Very very carefully?

Whoever there are chainsaws and balls involved, I'm extra careful 😉

 

[MrSMW]

Being serious, it's mostly 'simply' a case of starting out as a 100% stills photographer who through a process of trial & error technique-wise plus balance of tools used, added X% of video per annum at the approx following rate:

Year 1 = + 10% (just static single camcorder on tripod ceremony & speeches)

Year 2 = + 20% (as above plus a tiny amount of handheld or other bits and bobs on a tripod)

Year 3 = + 35% (adding more elements and volume)

Year 4 = + 50%

Year 5 = + 75%

Year 6 = + 100%

Since that time, more refinement/evolution than revolution.

The principle skills are probably determination combined with the ability to multitask whilst being prepared for quite a few setbacks, especially financial ones as there is no official guide or handbook, just self-education/experimentation.

If anyone really wants to know the specifics, they can book and pay for a workshop. But it ain't cheap. Various competitors have been trying to weasel info for years, but I protect my niche like a cornered weasel myself 🤑😈

[Thpriest]

5 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Being serious, it's mostly 'simply' a case of starting out as a 100% stills photographer who through a process of trial & error technique-wise plus balance of tools used, added X% of video per annum at the approx following rate:

Year 1 = + 10% (just static single camcorder on tripod ceremony & speeches)

Year 2 = + 20% (as above plus a tiny amount of handheld or other bits and bobs on a tripod)

Year 3 = + 35% (adding more elements and volume)

Year 4 = + 50%

Year 5 = + 75%

Year 6 = + 100%

Since that time, more refinement/evolution than revolution.

The principle skills are probably determination combined with the ability to multitask whilst being prepared for quite a few setbacks, especially financial ones as there is no official guide or handbook, just self-education/experimentation.

If anyone really wants to know the specifics, they can book and pay for a workshop. But it ain't cheap. Various competitors have been trying to weasel info for years, but I protect my niche like a cornered weasel myself 🤑😈

I'm starting from the other end! Video first and adding photos. I've 20 year experience on the video side but started experimenting with photos as well last year. Starting with low budget weddings (compared to my normal weddings) whilst I get to grip with how to do hybrid weddings as I explain to the couple that I'm developing this style of wedding and they are happy to get what they get! The video comes naturally but I need to work the photos!

The AF and punch in to focus on the S5mk2 has definitely made it easier.

[Mark Romero 2]

On 1/22/2024 at 2:29 AM, kye said:

Very very carefully?

Or in my case, very, very badly...

[Mark Romero 2]

On 1/22/2024 at 8:37 AM, MrSMW said:

The principle skills are probably determination combined with the ability to multitask...

Well... that's gonna be rough for me, since my wife says I am horrible at just unitasking. 

[MrSMW]

Actually, multitasking is probably the wrong term as I can only focus on one thing at a time, so more a case of making the capture using photo and video, a single thing.

I guess that is what I did. Amalgamated what for most, has traditionally been two different processes.

[Walter H]

Any thoughts/opinions on adding an OLPF to our beloved Panny's? Seriously looking at this option from Kolari for my S1.

Context: I'm a hybrid shooter doing almost as much stills work as video professionally. Currently with an S1 and an S5. I've been repeatedly hit with troublesome moiré particularly when doing portrait work and have considered selling off my S1 to pick up an S1h to compliment and diversify explicitly for this image-making issue. 

Purportedly, their OLPF is more effective than what is in the S1h. I could do this and still be well below the kit cost vs what I could get for my S1 vs. the cost of a lightly used S1h would be. My S1 is now out of warrantee - not worried about voiding anything. I talked with one of their engineers today and the white balance shift is lens specific and quite slight but they felt they had to put a strong/conservative disclaimer on the website. One-year warrantee. I could ditch my 1/8 black mist when filming with the 24-105. Etc. 

Struggling to find a downside here. 

[kye]

5 hours ago, Walter H said:

Any thoughts/opinions on adding an OLPF to our beloved Panny's? Seriously looking at this option from Kolari for my S1.

Context: I'm a hybrid shooter doing almost as much stills work as video professionally. Currently with an S1 and an S5. I've been repeatedly hit with troublesome moiré particularly when doing portrait work and have considered selling off my S1 to pick up an S1h to compliment and diversify explicitly for this image-making issue. 

Purportedly, their OLPF is more effective than what is in the S1h. I could do this and still be well below the kit cost vs what I could get for my S1 vs. the cost of a lightly used S1h would be. My S1 is now out of warrantee - not worried about voiding anything. I talked with one of their engineers today and the white balance shift is lens specific and quite slight but they felt they had to put a strong/conservative disclaimer on the website. One-year warrantee. I could ditch my 1/8 black mist when filming with the 24-105. Etc. 

Struggling to find a downside here. 

One downside I can think of is how long the OLPF might last?

The ones that people put into their OG BMPCCs have some sort of problem - IIRC they go foggy?  Anyway, people are always talking online about replacing them.  It might just be isolated to that time-period or manufacturer, but something to look into.  Otherwise, yeah, why not.

[MrSMW]

I'd just go with a used S1H which are fantastic value now.

Unless you absolutely must have exceptional forward tracking AF and/or full frame 50/60p, it's an exceptional piece of kit that is a joy to use with stellar output.

[Walter H]

2 hours ago, kye said:

One downside I can think of is how long the OLPF might last?

The ones that people put into their OG BMPCCs have some sort of problem - IIRC they go foggy?  Anyway, people are always talking online about replacing them.  It might just be isolated to that time-period or manufacturer, but something to look into.  Otherwise, yeah, why not.

Thanks for noting that. The quick twenty-minute look did reveal some of those issues, mostly due to condensation between the filter and sensor separated by rubber gasket and, for an unlucky few, the development of mold. This is also for a camera/filter situation that people were installing in the uncontrolled comfort of their own homes!

Not seeing much beyond the BMPCC's, but it does prompt me to ask about this, get more clarity on their application of the OLPF, their expectations of durability, etc. 

48 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I'd just go with a used S1H which are fantastic value now.

Unless you absolutely must have exceptional forward tracking AF and/or full frame 50/60p, it's an exceptional piece of kit that is a joy to use with stellar output.

Thanks for the thought, but is your suggestion simply based upon the S1H's current low cost? 

Fundamentally, there is no difference in output between the S1 and the S1H with the S1's updated firmware, right? (I mean, I know that the answer is yes to that question.) There are some video-centric ergos that the S1H has which, sure, I'd prefer but they aren't worth a ton of coin. Texting with one guy who has had this done, this retro OLPF is seemingly more effective than that within the S1H. Link here.

It kind of boils down to hassle as well as $$: 1) selling my S1, buying an S1H; selling my S5, buying a FujiX as a second cam, or 2) for the price of the S1H, I could do this convert to the S1 and buy a Fuji X-S20 (possibly a used H2s?); sell the S5. Option 2 feels so much more efficient and that means something these days. 

 

Appreciate you both for chiming in.

[PannySVHS]

@Walter HI still own both, S1 and S1H. I bought the S1H as a replacement for the S1. I was not happy with the ergos and especially not with the gnarling mechanism of the tilt screen, though very robust but for too unpleasant to use. The S1H is a joy to hold and operate. The screen mechanism is awesome to operate and so useful. To have both, swivel and tilt is genius. Feels like a movie camera not like a system cam. It has true Super 35 in addition to Apsc mode, S1 doesn't.

I didnt't compare the menues one on one but S1H feels way more forward, either by structure or by operation, not sure.

It offers HD 100p and 120p in 10bit 200mbps h265.

A Polish review channel on youtube tested the S1H with perfect downsampled HD resolution in S35 or Apsc mode, much better than the S1. It also offers Cine4K modes which the S1 does not.

I really enjoy my S1H, whereas I didn't like to use my S1.

S1 is a heck of a camera for the money and image, built quality is pro but I just didn't enjoy to use mine. S1H is in another league as a video camera though for me. I have so much fun using it.

Timecode is another thing. But better ask @IronFilmabout that as he is a soundrecording pro and artist working with all cameras available for professional film productions.

I love the top screen on the S1H, looks so much nicer than on the S1. I love looking at it. S1H is just a real marvel of a camera. Oh, it also has an optional tally frame when recording.

I would not bother with 699 for an oplf but make myself a gift with a fantastic camera instead like I did, oplf included and all intra codecs as well. I will soon shoot 200mbps HD. I loved that mode on the GH5.

@kyeDo I need to worry? Got the Rawlite Oplf and IRcut filter on my Bmmcc. Aka M2K 🙂

[kye]

1 hour ago, Walter H said:

Fundamentally, there is no difference in output between the S1 and the S1H with the S1's updated firmware, right? (I mean, I know that the answer is yes to that question.) There are some video-centric ergos that the S1H has which, sure, I'd prefer but they aren't worth a ton of coin. Texting with one guy who has had this done, this retro OLPF is seemingly more effective than that within the S1H. Link here.

The before and after shots in the video sure are pretty convincing.

I had to laugh a couple of times though.  What he should have said was:
1) It does a great job of removing moire, but on the other hand it also reduces the sharpness which improves the image more than the removal of the moire, and,
2) It introduces a slight colour shift, but here, I've radically overcompensated in post and made the WB much worse but in the other direction!

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

 

@kyeDo I need to worry? Got the Rawlite Oplf and IRcut filter on my Bmmcc. Aka M2K 🙂

My vague recollection is that the Rawlite ones seem to be the ones that go bad, but here's how I see it.  Either your filter is about to go bad, in which case you have enough problems and the last thing you need is to make your life worse by worrying about it, or your filter will be fine for a long time, in which case worrying will stop you from simply enjoying yourself.

🙂 

So, either way....

[MrSMW]

3 hours ago, Walter H said:

Thanks for the thought, but is your suggestion simply based upon the S1H's current low cost? 

Far from it, - that is just a bonus.

Read @PannySVHS post which pretty much sums it up.

The S1H is better than the sum of its own parts which are exceptional in their own right and better than any other S camera. So far...