Panasonic S5 II (What does Panasonic have up their sleeve?)

[Mark Romero 2]

51 minutes ago, kye said:

HLG isn't a standard, it's more like a semi-technical marketing phrase, however, rec2100 and rec2020 are HDR standards and you can use a CST to convert them to whatever you like.  If I shoot a clip in 709 and then HLG on my GH5, then the conversion from rec2100 to 709 is pretty close to the 709 version SOOC.  Close enough that the difference is irrelevant, because you're going to want to push and pull the image in post, and those adjustments will easily override the differences out of the camera.

It's easily tested - just record a clip in HLG and then in V-LOG and use the CST to convert both to rec709 and see which input colour space / gamma is closest to the V-LOG conversion.

The better you get at colour grading, the less you care about which camera or colour space was used, as long as it's a robust and efficient codec and has colour management support.

Thanks for the input.

Yeah, I think that the MAIN reason i never used HLG was because there wasn't a simple LUT available for it (as far as I knew at the time), and I was told that IF I ever wanted to uses ACES in resolve, then it could be problamtic. Is that an old wives tale? Don't know. Just didn't want to experiement with it because I was pretty happy with V-LOG and the Ground Control LUT (I think that is the one I am using... will double check. I just know it was free, because, I am cheap).

But will certainly give it a go now, although I admit that sometimes when using a CST node in Resolve, I then don't know what to set some of the other "ancilliary" settings to (like the tone mapping and such). And reading through the Resolve manual makes my brain hurt.

[kye]

15 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Thanks for the input.

Yeah, I think that the MAIN reason i never used HLG was because there wasn't a simple LUT available for it (as far as I knew at the time), and I was told that IF I ever wanted to uses ACES in resolve, then it could be problamtic. Is that an old wives tale? Don't know. Just didn't want to experiement with it because I was pretty happy with V-LOG and the Ground Control LUT (I think that is the one I am using... will double check. I just know it was free, because, I am cheap).

But will certainly give it a go now, although I admit that sometimes when using a CST node in Resolve, I then don't know what to set some of the other "ancilliary" settings to (like the tone mapping and such). And reading through the Resolve manual makes my brain hurt.

If you're doing the colour grade yourself then here's my advice:

• If it looks good, it is good (and it doesn't really matter how you got there)
• If you're not sure what a setting does, and it doesn't make the image clearly better, then probably just leave it at whatever the default was

That's literally it. 

As you gradually get better you'll build up a sense of what tools make what situations look better, and you'll get that from trial and error / reading forums / watching tutorials / etc, but as soon as you start using the word "should" a lot then you need to go back to the first bullet point above - if it looks good then it is good.

The goal of the tech is to learn it enough to start thinking about other more creative aspects.

[PannySVHS]

On 2/16/2024 at 4:30 AM, Mark Romero 2 said:

Curious as to how you are then converting from HLG to a Rec.709 image? (or maybe you are just monitoring / delivering in HLG???).

Back then I used a Hlg to Vlog conversion lut from Sage who created the emotive luts for arri color and rolloff for Vlog and went on from there. I really liked how Hlg responded in Grading, both on the GH5 and the S1.

[MrSMW]

Oops I did it again…or rather Lumix and Sony did…

I don’t want to rail on L Mount because for me, it’s so close to being the outright ‘best’ all round system, but once again, it’s the lenses that are letting it down.

Again, for me and MY needs.

My YouTube feed was flooded the other day with the announcement of the new Sigma 500mm lens. Bravo, looks relatively compact for a 500, but at 3x longer than I will ever need, utterly irrelevant.

Then we get Lumix launching the 28-200mm f4-7.1 and that is relatively compact (unzoomed) for what it is, but again, completely irrelevant for my needs. Hailed by some as turning your camera into a camcorder. Not quite and if that’s your thing, great…but not for me.

Then Sony announce their 24-50mm f2.8. Hello. Arguably not something the world was exactly asking for, but for those wanting a smaller more compact & lighter lens vs the trad 24-70… Especially on a higher MP body with more latitude to crop…

Having flipped to Nikon (back to after 12 years away from) for stills, I would seriously consider this lens for both stills and video, but as I already have the excellent Tamron 20-40mm f2.8…which is actually a more useful focal range for me, the new Sony lens is not going to be one for me….but it’s another example of at least the type of lens that does interest me. I could really see it on something like an A7RV for 90% of my needs 90% of the time.

I do hope Lumix announce their S1 replacement soon and suspect they will in March, but it’s the glass that for me is letting the system down, primarily fast more compact zoom lenses.

I put my new (used) Z6ii with adapted Tamron 70-180mm f2 against my S5ii with native 70-200mm f4 yesterday and it’s not significantly smaller or lighter, but is both and a full stop faster and for my work, the difference between f2.8 and f4 is significant.

Never mind if I actually had an L Mount f2.8 either from Lumix or Sigma which would then match the faster aperture, but be significantly larger, heavier and ergonomically less good to use.

So not a rant against L Mount but rather a wish and a hope that they can come good, at least on paper, but I fear it’s too late for me for stills at least…

Just some musings over coffee 😜

[MrSMW]

 

The final line up for the 2024 season. 
From left to right…

S1H with battery grip, 70-200 f4 (not shown, Rode WG2) permanently on tripod shooting static full length ceremony & speeches, manual focus, 4k 25p.

Z6ii + adapted Tamron 70-180 f2.8 (not shown battery grip arriving tomorrow) with option Tamron 20-40 f2.8, stills only but can do video in an emergency. Sling on shoulder.

S5ii + cage + Sigma 28-70 f2.8 + Rode Micro as my all day run & gun, gimbal ready, 4k 50p unit (so 42-105mm equivalent). Right hip.

Zf + 40mm f2 candid stills but can also do video in an emergency. Left hip.

Single backpack with all lighting, all other audio, all spare batts, cards, power bank, chargers, gimbal etc, but actually lives in my cart along with the 2 big light stands, 40m extension reel and 500W portable power bank.

[Mark Romero 2]

6 hours ago, MrSMW said:

S5ii + cage + Sigma 28-70 f2.8 + Rode Micro as my all day run & gun, gimbal ready, 4k 50p unit (so 42-105mm equivalent). Right hip.

How well does the Sigma 28-70 f/2.8 work with the S5 II? 

Panasonic has a crazy deal with the S5 II / X with the 20-60mm, and the 50mm f/1.8, AND the 85mm f/1.8.

I would be tempted to sell those lenses and get the Sigma 28-75 f/2.8 instead. (I already have a Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM on the MC-21 so I think I would be covered for a normal fast prime, plus I have far too many manual focus lenses in the 50mm to 58mm range, too).

[MrSMW]

25 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

How well does the Sigma 28-70 f/2.8 work with the S5 II?

The perfect lens IMO, at least for my needs, whether 28-70 FF or 42-105 in crop mode, stills or video.

Personally, I always shoot stills FF and use longer lenses for reach with say 24mp, but with something 60+ like some of the more recent Sony’s, I’d be quite happy to keep my lens sizes down and crop instead.

In fact, I am fairly sure that the Sony A7RV in crop mode is 26mp so a little bigger than the native 24mp FF sensors.

But the Sigma. Perfect size, weight, reach for me. I’m not much of a wider angle shooter and if so, I have a 20mm for that very limited (but still needed) requirement and prefer to shoot slightly longer lenses so 28 over 24, 40 over 35, 90/105 over 85 and rarely (but do need) anything over 150 and for that I have 180.

I shoot this combo crop mode all the time now as whilst I don’t need every bit of footage slow mo, some bits I do want to slow to 75% and other stuff to 50% and remembering to change back and forth between 25p and 50p when also shooting stills has caught me out too many times and the quality difference is marginal.

In fact, if you want better AF, shoot cropped.

Liked the 20-60 that came with my original S5, but really only used it as a day time wide, otherwise a bit slow for my needs and tastes, so sold it.

I’m an f4 day, 2.8 night, at their slowest kind of guy. I will generally shoot video wide open, but not always and stills generally the same or stopped down a bit, but a lot of my work can be low light and slower than f4 is a hard no from me.

That little Canon is a great lens. I had that adapter on my Fuji XT3 as a ‘75’ and  it was a great cheap workhorse.

I do prefer primes in principle and would shoot them exclusively if it was practical for me to do so, but being able to be shooting at 180mm, rotate to 70mm and then flip (camera) to 40 and then 20, over 2 bodies, well it would need 4 bodies + 4 primes or a very handy assistant to do that otherwise!

But the Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 is a 💯% from me.

The Sigma f2 and f2.8 Contemporary primes are also A Grade as far as I am concerned with better build, feel, style and character over the Lumix f1.8’s plus have aperture rings and AF on/off switches on them.

It’s above 90mm where L Mount loses me…

[MrSMW]

And while I think of it, the only other lens that really stands out for me in L Mount land is the Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 which of course is crop mode only so more like a 27-52 which for those not really requiring anything longer than 50mm, IMO is a gem of a combo.

I came very close actually to doing just this and opting for it’s forgotten brother, the 50-100mm f1.8 other than for the fact that the S1H AF is not as good as the S5ii and the 50-100 has shit AF AF!

Maybe…just maybe, if the ‘S2H’ is the absolute dogs for stills and video, I might be tempted next season, but then again, that ship may already have sailed and I might consider replacing my remaining L Mount gear and going all in on Nikon next year with Z6iii…

[Mark Romero 2]

33 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

But the Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 is a 💯% from me.

The Sigma f2 and f2.8 Contemporary primes are also A Grade as far as I am concerned with better build, feel, style and character over the Lumix f1.8’s plus have aperture rings and AF on/off switches on them.

It’s above 90mm where L Mount loses me…

Thanks for the reply!

Darn, if the Sigma 28-70 f/2.8 only had lens stabilization, it would be a no-brainer for me. Partly because, in the USA at least, Sigma will replace lens mounts free of charge, so if I decided to move from Panasonic to Sony at some point, then it would be an easy swap.

[IronFilm]

11 hours ago, MrSMW said:

 

The final line up for the 2024 season. 
From left to right…

Are you bringing all four cameras to a wedding? 

[MrSMW]

8 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Are you bringing all four cameras to a wedding? 

Always. It’s a very straightforward, relatively lightweight set up, unlike the heavier and bulkier (per unit) 3 cam set up I had last year.

I have simply ‘de-complicated’ my set up from the 3x aforementioned hybrid units to 2x designated sets with the bulkiest/heaviest unit being static.

I tried EVERY possible option with L Mount only and could not make it work.

[IronFilm]

56 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Always.

Ohhh... for some reason I thought you were always bringing one brand or the other, not bringing both at once and mixing/matching them together. 

[MrSMW]

Yes, 100% L Mount for video and 100% Nikon for stills in 2024.

Both are also set up to shoot the opposite in an emergency.

Very rarely, like 1/20 times, I might just be doing only video or only stills in which case I'd just take the 2 appropriate units.

It's quite liberating actually to only do one or the other, but not that much different as in I don't really get much more from doing only video or only stills over hybrid.

Any difference is really just off the bottom end, ie, slightly less quantity rather than any less quality, ie, there is no real compromise in doing both at the same time.

But that is possibly because I have been doing both at the same time since 2010 so have had a bit of practice, ie, 300+ mostly multi-day events shooting hybrid.

I'd write a book or offer training, but no one wants to pay for anything these days so I'll take my secrets to my cardboard coffin incineration day 😉

I would rather be only shooting one brand for everything because obviously it makes things easier with cross compatibility and a better partner for Nikon stills would be Sony for video as with the excellent adapters, Nikon users have access to the full range of E Mount glass...and I considered it, but cost.

I sold off some L Mount gear which mostly paid for the Nikon gear so the transition from 2023 gear to 2024 kit has cost me basically nothing.

So a sideways move financially, but a pretty fundamental ergonomic / real world use advantages.

I could do it all with Nikon and next season, maybe I will, swapping the L Mount video gear for Nikon.

Or if L Mount come good with the bodies and glass, I could ditch the Nikon stills.

The full Nikon system is most likely however, but who knows...

One other 'bonus factor' of switching from Lumix to Nikon stills is that it's the same sensor, so I can keep using my same custom Lightroom import settings, though they may need some very minor tweaking for any minor differences. That custom import has been 2 seasons of micro tweaking to get it just how I wanted it so great I can keep it.

I could easily flip to full Sony, but the cost prevents me.

I would if I could, go Canon, based around R3's and one day I may, but only in 2-3 years when the costs of used bodies and lenses has come down considerably. They have the lenses and the R3's are 'peak camera' for my needs for now and the rest of my career.

And in 24 years of being a full-time pro, I have never owned a Canon camera, but based on handling one and the specs, no question in my mind, the R3 is 'peak camera' for me.

 

 

[kye]

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

I'd write a book or offer training, but no one wants to pay for anything these days so I'll take my secrets to my cardboard coffin incineration day

I don't think that's true actually.

If you wanted to get into training then I'd encourage you to do it, especially if you have downtime during the off-season to try new things.  I have bought several colour grading courses, probably totalling over $1K, and they always have dozens of people attending and who knows how many buying the recordings afterwards like I do (timezones between here and LA always suck).  Many of the folks attending are solo operators who are upping their colour game, so might be a similar target audience to your skillset. 

Obviously training is a whole other skill and it's a business so there's a lot of prep work, but the rates can be pretty good, especially if you wouldn't otherwise be earning anything.

[MrSMW]

39 minutes ago, kye said:

If you wanted to get into training then I'd encourage you to do it, especially if you have downtime during the off-season to try new things.

Maybe… I get around 1/2 a dozen asking every year but when I mention the info they are asking about has a value, every single one says, “err, no thanks, I just wanted a free info dump”.

It’s not like there are a million folks offering grading tuition but there are near zero offering it regarding hybrid so it’s a rare bird indeed.

My issue is, unless I am making it VERY worth my while, I would just potentially be feeding my direct comp.

Unless I only sold my services to folks who don’t or won’t be offering the services I do in France…

That could be viable. I’ll think on it…

[kye]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Maybe… I get around 1/2 a dozen asking every year but when I mention the info they are asking about has a value, every single one says, “err, no thanks, I just wanted a free info dump”.

It’s not like there are a million folks offering grading tuition but there are near zero offering it regarding hybrid so it’s a rare bird indeed.

My issue is, unless I am making it VERY worth my while, I would just potentially be feeding my direct comp.

Unless I only sold my services to folks who don’t or won’t be offering the services I do in France…

That could be viable. I’ll think on it…

I would imagine the easiest thing to do would be to go through a training organisation that already runs courses to photographers and would already have a mailing list and let them do the marketing and handle payments etc, and for you to just write your bio and then deliver the actual training.  Obviously they'd take a cut, but sales and marketing isn't easy so they've earned a split.

I wouldn't underestimate the number of stills photographers who haven't transitioned to video yet either, but as you say, hybrid is a whole thing so your market is potentially both photo-only folks, video only folks, and hybrid people who want to learn and get better.

In terms of the random people asking you for free info, for every topic where people get paid well for providing training there will be people who want the info for free too, so I would suggest that your dataset might not be sufficient to draw any conclusions...
I don't know what effect it would have to provide training to your competitors, but being able to say that you not only do hybrid but teach it to other pros might give you an advantage as well.  Not to mention the advantage of getting them to give you some of their money 🙂 

[John Matthews]

Here's my Panasonic 2024 travel setup:

• Generic bag
• Panasonic HC-VX980 (integrated 31-626mm lens), 2 batteries, USB power cord
• Panasonic GX800, 3 batteries, lenses (Panasonic 12-32mm, 17mm f/1.8, and 45mm f/1.8), USB charging cord
• Variable ND + CPL that fit both cameras
• Olympus LS-P4 audio recorder with wind muff
• 3 x SD cards

The total weight: about 1650g.

This setup is significantly less than my FF setup (especially considering I'd need a bigger bag, NDs, lenses, etc.). With the release of the new Panasonic 28-200mm, I thought I might get away with that but have since reconsidered. I like the idea of having two devices, one for video, one for photos and b-roll video. At $900, the 28-200mm's a decent deal IMO, given the size, but I'd probably need to sell the remainder of my M43 stuff. Also, I'd probably end up wanting more lenses for lower light with a FF setup.

[IronFilm]

16 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Very rarely, like 1/20 times, I might just be doing only video or only stills in which case I'd just take the 2 appropriate units.

ahhh... as I think I just remembered:

1) you're always doing these solo? (never a second shooter with you)

2) yet the vast majority of them you're doing the video and photos for the couple? Ambitious! 

A bit different to what I'm used to or expect. 

[IronFilm]

14 hours ago, MrSMW said:

My issue is, unless I am making it VERY worth my while, I would just potentially be feeding my direct comp.

When  you move into the final stretch of your career (say 5yrs or less until retirement) then start offering workshops / tutorials. 

As then it won't even matter if they're local to you in France! 

Because in a country the size of France, training up a couple of people won't have much impact. Sure, over a ten year span, you'll have trained up a lot! But what impact will those you train in just the first year or three?? Not much. 

Especially as someone who you train will then take another three years or so themselves to gear up and get skilled themselves and expand to a point they're even a minor threat to yourself. 

And by this point, you won't even care if they're "stealing" jobs from you! 

Because you'll either be semi-retired yourself, or within a couple of years of retirement anyway, so you'll be winding down anyway. 

[MrSMW]

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Because in a country the size of France, training up a couple of people won't have much impact

Au contraire…

The largest ‘English Speaking Wedding Directory in France’ posted on social media the other day about the 272,000 weddings per annum in the country and without saying so, implying that by advertising with them, you would be tapping into this market.

Balls.

Yes, that figure may very well be the official figure, but for our Anglophone destination wedding market, there are no official figures but I would estimate that we could realistically remove 270,000 from that figure.

So now we have a market of approx 2000.

Based on feedback from planners, we lose around 50% of our potential work to couples importing a photographer or videographer from their own country, usually the UK or US.

Available jobs now down to about 1k.

How many expat photographers/videographers or English speaking natives chasing this market?

Again, impossible to say, but a few hundred for sure…

Call it 200.

The math now doesn’t work as that makes an average 5 jobs per annum.

Of course life and work is not fair like that and does not work on averages as some starting out (and as with most industries, more than 50% fail within 1-3 years but during that time, suck work out of the marketplace) are happy with just 3-5 jobs PA, but anyone full-time, depending on pricing etc, needs 15-30 jobs to earn a modest income.

Getting ‘your share’, just as it is in many industries, is no simple task and it’s those with a point of difference that tend to do best.

My POD (or USP) has been that I am ‘The Guy That Can Do Both’.

If my USP is removed or becomes the norm, I just become another everyday fish in what is a very small pond.

Just 1 year would kill my business, never mind 5, so appreciate the sentiment, but nah, surround yourself with monsters without any big guns and plenty of ammo and you die. Very quickly.

And folks are monsters in business as we all know and will step over their dying granny for a few quid.

I like to think I operate with integrity and 99% of the time I do.

I’m not mercenary by nature and neither am I ruthless, but when it comes to protecting my business interests…which my life outside of business depends on, I’m…well not charitable shall we say 😜

So training… After 20+ years I’m the business, I’ve seen them come and I’ve seen them go. I was once the wide-eyed newb, but I’m one of the older dogs. But an older dog that still has all of his marbles and 20+ years of business experience.

What has always made me laugh over these 20+ years is the folks who gave it all away for a fast buck…and were shortly after pissing & moaning at the same folks they gave it to.

Dr Frankenstein, you gave life to the monster. How did that work out for you?

So the S5ii. Great for video but still hate that shutter feel and sound for stills. Vindicated by the arrival the other day of the Z6ii which also has my preferred tilt screen over the flip out.

My verdict S5ii vs Z6ii = Lumix for the video win, Nikon for the stills.