Panasonic S5 II (What does Panasonic have up their sleeve?)

[Al Dolega]

I would say I vacillate between #2 and #3. Maybe an occasional brief flash of #1 when I'm lucky.

7 minutes ago, kye said:

Cool to hear that you're editing women skaters like men, and especially with someone as skilled as Chynna.  I skated for many years in my youth, both skateboarding and later roller-blading, and I have just enough skill to know how crazy the tricks in that video are.  Especially considering they were all shot in one day, I assume from the title?

Oh no, not at all. We shot this over the summers of 2015, 2016, and 2017- that's where the title comes from. Probably 40-50 shooting days of anywhere from 2-6 hours each day. The curved rail at 2:48, for example, we were there for about three hours, in 90+F July heat. I shot 176 tries, with the landed clip you see in the video being around hour 2 and try 100. But Chy and I are both a bit of compulsive perfectionists and we wanted a following fisheye angle too, so we kept going and only stopped because some guy selling fireworks in the parking lot next to us wandered over and lit an industrial smoke bomb in the middle of the spot because he thought it would give a cool music video vibe 😄 Was kind of a blessing actually as you couldn't even see your hands after that and it forced us to stop.

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, Al Dolega said:

only stopped because some guy selling fireworks in the parking lot next to us wandered over and lit an industrial smoke bomb in the middle of the spot because he thought it would give a cool music video vibe

I had a guest do that at a wedding a couple of years back. Could not see a thing and totally trashed the shoot!

Lasers, smoke and balloons 🤪

[ita149]

On 3/3/2024 at 4:20 AM, Al Dolega said:

I'm not a fan of the new processing for the linear profiles, I shoot entirely in V-Log so it actually doesn't affect me, but... gross, looks like cellphone footage. I'm eagerly awaiting the S1Hii or S1X or whatever comes next, but they'd better fix that processing.

Yes, you're right. This is the first thing I noticed when I bought my S5II. Coming from the S5, S1 and even GH5, I'm very disappointed by their new processing.
V-Log is less impacted but when I compare the 4K V-Log of my S1 and S5 to my S5II, I can see a difference when cropping a bit, details are rougher on the S5II.

Panasonic is well know for its great image quality, I don't know why they did this on the S5II, maybe to attract smartphone users.

[Al Dolega]

I'm guessing the new processing is less, well, processor-intensive. Cruder algorithms, easier to compress... something, that reduces processing overhead and makes room for the additional AF processing (without paying for a much faster chip). Or maybe image processing is in a separate chip but they switched to a cheaper off-the-shelf part that was designed for cellphones.

Whatever it is, they can call it a new "Leica look engine" or whatever they want, but that's just the specific shade of marketing lipstick they're putting on this pig. Somehow I doubt Leica would want to move towards an oversharpened cellphone look, if anything I would think they would want the opposite.

[kye]

New firmware update just announced: https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/lumix/firmware_update.html

Quote

S5II Firmware Version 3.0 / S5IIX Firmware Version 2.0

1. Enhancement of Production Workflows
New Native Camera to Cloud Integration with Adobe’s Frame.io
Compatibility with Frame.io Camera to Cloud is now supported, enabling images and videos to be automatically uploaded, backed up, shared, and worked on jointly via the cloud. Recorded content is sent to the Frame.io platform through an internet connection via Wi-Fi or USB tethering, enabling seamless sharing of captured photos (JPEG/RAW) and Proxy videos. This empowers creators to receive remote real-time feedback during capture and enables collaborative editing among production teams using their preferred creative software. Frame.io Camera to Cloud streamlines the workflow from shooting to editing, enhancing overall efficiency in the creative process.

Proxy Video Recording
This new feature records a low bit-rate proxy file when recording video. Simultaneously recording a proxy file that is linked with the original video recording enabling a faster delivery from production to post.

2. Improved Basic Performance
Real-time Auto-focus Recognition (Animal Eye, Car, Motorcycle Recognition)
The improved real-time auto-focus system enhances the highly accurate Phase Hybrid auto focus of the S5II and S5IIX, efficiently recognizing people amongst multiple subjects. It also features an animal eye recognition function, to focus on and follow animal eyes, as well as a car and motorcycle recognition function, which is ideally suited for shooting motorsports.

Enhanced E.I.S. Performance
In addition to Standard, High mode is newly added to E-Stabilization (Video) function, which electronically corrects large shakes when shooting on the move. A perspective distortion correction has also been added to correct distortion that tends to occur during video shooting when using a wide-angle lens. Combined with Active I.S. Technology, it is now possible to achieve even more stable footage when shooting on the move.  

3. Expanding Creative Options

SH Pre-burst Shooting
The newly introduced SH pre-burst shooting function records bursts before shooting begins. When set to the SH PRE mode, the camera begins burst shooting from the moment the user half presses the shutter button, allowing retroactive burst shooting up to the moment the shutter button is pressed down fully.

 

[zerocool22]

1 hour ago, kye said:

New firmware update just announced: https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/lumix/firmware_update.html

 

Sounds great, I wonder how much the AF has improved. (Especially in slowmo or full hd resolution)

[kye]

1 hour ago, zerocool22 said:

Sounds great, I wonder how much the AF has improved. (Especially in slowmo or full hd resolution)

I guess once it's released we'll see a new round of strange AF testing from the YT camera gaggle!

[John Matthews]

I'm rather curious to see how the AF features translate to video. From what I've seen from the G9ii, it's very good. I'll be one of the first to check into this. Also, I'd like to play around with those proxy files as they could be changing many people's workflow and storage considerations. I remember the A7r ii started with style of proxy editing and I wonder if it'll be better with Panasonic's implementation.

[Llaasseerr]

Does anyone know of a Vlog clip shot at ISO 4000 with the S5II(x) available to download? Preferably with a wide dynamic range of noisy shadows and clipping highlights. Ideally it would be 4:2:2 all-intra or Prores 422 HQ, and in-camera noise reduction turned right down (or RAW would also work).

[Llaasseerr]

On 4/14/2024 at 6:14 PM, Llaasseerr said:

Does anyone know of a Vlog clip shot at ISO 4000 with the S5II(x) available to download? Preferably with a wide dynamic range of noisy shadows and clipping highlights. Ideally it would be 4:2:2 all-intra or Prores 422 HQ, and in-camera noise reduction turned right down (or RAW would also work).

I had a chance to test this, it does look like the extra green shadow noise introduced by the new autofocus is somewhat reduced by shooting at the higher base ISO 4000 if the situation allows for it. So shooting with an ND could work.

[MrSMW]

I’ve been wrestling with just having and using a gimbal for at least 5 years now and have just sold my 3rd and final trial unit, the DJI RS3.

I have such a limited use case and arguably don’t need one at all, but there are a couple of times on most jobs when I would like the option but without any of the hassle.

Step forward firmware update 2.0/3.0

It’s not out for a few days other than with a few folks who are showing it off, but damn, it’s looking good.

OK it’s based on an even stronger EIS which crops harder, but that is fine by me as I prefer a longer lens and with my Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 glued on to my S5ii and in S35 4k 50p mode, what was already more like 42-105 is going to become more like a 50-120. 👍👍👍

For the very rare times I need wider, I still have the dinky 18-50mm (27-75) in the bag but this is now one sweet set up for my needs.

 

[kye]

6 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I’ve been wrestling with just having and using a gimbal for at least 5 years now and have just sold my 3rd and final trial unit, the DJI RS3.

I have such a limited use case and arguably don’t need one at all, but there are a couple of times on most jobs when I would like the option but without any of the hassle.

Step forward firmware update 2.0/3.0

It’s not out for a few days other than with a few folks who are showing it off, but damn, it’s looking good.

OK it’s based on an even stronger EIS which crops harder, but that is fine by me as I prefer a longer lens and with my Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 glued on to my S5ii and in S35 4k 50p mode, what was already more like 42-105 is going to become more like a 50-120. 👍👍👍

For the very rare times I need wider, I still have the dinky 18-50mm (27-75) in the bag but this is now one sweet set up for my needs.

What situations do you need that level of stabilisation for?

In terms of stabilisation, MILCs really have a long way to go (but a lot of potential!) compared to the crazy level of stabilisation that GoPro etc showed was possible.  Obviously there are many factors involved, but there's no reason we couldn't get very good stabilisation from MILCs.

One thing I do see, however, is that it's possible to have too much stabilisation if the camera is moving in 3D space, because if you stabilise too hard then you get that gimbal effect where the camera is locked onto a direction but is floating around in space like a drone trying to hover.  If the stabilisation isn't quite as good and leaves a little shake in the frame then the floating blends in with the shaking and it just looks like hand-holding and doesn't look so odd.

[ac6000cw]

47 minutes ago, kye said:

One thing I do see, however, is that it's possible to have too much stabilisation if the camera is moving in 3D space, because if you stabilise too hard then you get that gimbal effect where the camera is locked onto a direction but is floating around in space like a drone trying to hover.  If the stabilisation isn't quite as good and leaves a little shake in the frame then the floating blends in with the shaking and it just looks like hand-holding and doesn't look so odd.

For general video, I prefer a small amount of 'float' in the stabilisation - it looks more natural.

For handheld or monopod long telephoto video, I need all the stability I can get, so it's Panasonic 'IS Boost' or Oly/OMDS '+1' level stabilisation in that situation for me.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, kye said:

What situations do you need that level of stabilisation for?

Purely walking backwards in front of a couple walking towards me at approx the same pace.

Tried it previously with the gimbal and of course that works perfectly.

Tried it with just the S5ii IBIS and with/without current EIS with mixed results.

The new level looks 👊

Job done so good I sold the faffy gimbal and instead, from next week, I’ll just assign it to a custom setting et voila.

The rest of the day, ie, everything else is IBIS only which is perfect for the job. I do not have the time to tripod every shot and a monopod also gets in the way so a super steady handheld shot is key for me and IBIS alone with the S5ii achieves this.

I’ve even held it 2-3 minutes previously and whilst you can tell it was not on a tripod, it’s not far off and there is no real camera movement.

I’m not a camera movement kind of guy so don’t talk to me about panning etc 😛

[MrSMW]

I should add that anything that does require a tripod such as full length ceremony and speeches IS being captured by the S1H on a tripod.

[kye]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Purely walking backwards in front of a couple walking towards me at approx the same pace.

Tried it previously with the gimbal and of course that works perfectly.

Tried it with just the S5ii IBIS and with/without current EIS with mixed results.

The new level looks 👊

Job done so good I sold the faffy gimbal and instead, from next week, I’ll just assign it to a custom setting et voila.

The rest of the day, ie, everything else is IBIS only which is perfect for the job. I do not have the time to tripod every shot and a monopod also gets in the way so a super steady handheld shot is key for me and IBIS alone with the S5ii achieves this.

I’ve even held it 2-3 minutes previously and whilst you can tell it was not on a tripod, it’s not far off and there is no real camera movement.

I’m not a camera movement kind of guy so don’t talk to me about panning etc 😛

Yeah, if you have to walk backwards and it has to be professional-level results then that's absolutely a time when you need to pull out all the stops.

I haven't really seriously tested the EIS on the GH5, but I do remember playing with it and it was more stable than the IBIS alone, which makes sense.  If you can get gimbal-like or gimbal-near performance then it sounds like that will be a real advantage for those key moments.

I bought one of those phone gimbals and I think I used it about 3 times ever.  It was such a PITA to have to run the app to connect to the gimbal, and the stupid thing lost the horizon gradually as you were panning.  When you need to shoot fast to capture things happening in real-time that faffing is the last thing you want!

[MrSMW]

Yep, every time I invest in one, it ends up being too much for my use case.

Too much cost, battery charging, transport, set up, storage etc. Just a PITA.

No longer and never again!

[John Matthews]

This video answers a lot about EIS high. I look forward to trying this out on Monday. This guy tried out lots of APS-C L-mount lenses- I was surprised how many there are now. Also, there are some that could be amazing with that 1.43x crop in EIS high. Here's the S5i with the Sigma 10-18. I imagine this would be a cheap, great combo.

I've long thought that if Panasonic makes just a little smaller L-mount camera (FF), they'll kill M43, especially with all the APS-C lenses now available. Right now, it seems M43 only has 4k 120fps and widely available smaller lenses; the rest is practically a wash, including price. 

 

[MrSMW]

Long since killed 4/3 for me.

Well compared with the G9 and OM-1 anyway.

S5ii vs G9 in the same body? Other than the longest of lenses, or unless you were heavily invested in a huge range of 4/3 glass, why would you?

And the OM-1, I love it for its build and handling and even how it looks, but if I had to pick just one to work with, photo, video or hybrid, again, for me at least, it’s a no-brainer, S5ii.

The teeny tiny bodies and lenses, for discrete use, fair enough but for work, nah.

I still don’t much care for it for stills though which is why I have moved to Nikon for that.

Same sensor in the Zf and Z6ii and I prefer both, in different ways, for stills and the result I am getting out of them is  near identical (as in as good or better but not quantifiably) but the Nikon user experience is better.

The Zf is the snappier but less ergonomically good than the S5ii but the  Z6ii with or without battery grip is nicer to use than the Lumix.

What I want is the guts of the Zf in the Z6ii body and that will probably be the Z6iii within the next couple of months.

If so, I am done and will have the perfect pair for my work; the S5ii for video and Z6iii for stills because I will trade the Zf and Z6ii for a single Z6iii.

If I had to rate them for use case, I’d say that the S5ii is more like a 65% video focused MILC and the Z6iii the opposite and around 35% video.

The Zf somewhere more like 50% because it’s highly capable for both video and stills but it’s issue is always going to be it is not a great lens platform and is really only suitable for small primes. I currently have the Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 on it and the results are great and it’s not an ergonomic nightmare, but a DSLR style body is much better to work with.

But back on the S5ii, it was already my first choice for video (alongside the S1H which I prefer actually in EVERY regard except AF and that is why I had to make the S5ii my primary and not the S1H) and there were only two things I held against it:

1. The shutter button sound and feel. Tinny and not great next to the S1H and that killed it for me for stills use. Moving to Nikon solved that.

2. I use it with a Smallrig cage, side handle and Rode Micro. Try that on a gimbal 🤪 The latest firmware upgrade takes it from being ‘OK’ without a gimbal to ‘absolutely perfect for my needs without a gimbal’.

What else is there in this class right now?

Sony A7iv? Arguably better for stills but not as good for video.

Nikon Z6ii? Equal for stills but not as good for video.

Canon R6ii? Some will prefer its full frame 4k 60p but otherwise I don’t think it’s quite as complete a camera as the S5ii. And if you were already in the system, no reason to change. 

The Z6iii will be the next interesting one I am sure, at least equalling the S5ii for video and stills but taking the overall experience to the next level. I think…

 

[John Matthews]

3 hours ago, MrSMW said:

What else is there in this class right now?

Sony A7iv? Arguably better for stills but not as good for video.

Nikon Z6ii? Equal for stills but not as good for video.

Canon R6ii? Some will prefer its full frame 4k 60p but otherwise I don’t think it’s quite as complete a camera as the S5ii. And if you were already in the system, no reason to change. 

The Z6iii will be the next interesting one I am sure, at least equalling the S5ii for video and stills but taking the overall experience to the next level. I think…

M43 must come up with capable small bodies- PDAF and 4k 60fps. Instead, we've got very capable FF-sized bodies. I've still got some decent lenses for the system, but my patience is running thin as used M43 gear keeps going up (the opposite effect of what you'd think, but the need for small systems has skyrocketed).

I'm very curious to see what the new S5ii firmware does. Sure, it still has some limitations with regard to FF 60fps, but it makes up for it in other ways, especially tools.

I don't think Panasonic was expecting so many options for L mount APS-C. Sigma is going to start taking some market share from M43 IMO.