OMD EM1 - Experiences and converting 30p

[Inazuma]

Hi everyone,

I am considering moving from a GH3 to an Olympus OMD EM1. Mainly because the GH3's viewfinder and LCD are too low resolution to find critical focus with manual lenses quickly and easily. Yes I have an LCD magnifier but it really doesn't help much on this screen.

 

I'll be trying out one at a shop over the weeknd and was wondering if anyone could give me tips on how to quickly set the camera up for best video settings/flattest image.

 

As you may be aware, the camera only shoots at 30p. So what is the ideal shutter speed for cinematic motion if I want to convert the footage to 24 or 25p? If I shoot at 1/50th and downsample the footage from 30 to 25p, will the motion look slower or faster compared to a normal 25p video shot at 1/50th? How effective is Premiere Pro's frameblending?

 

Finally, I plan to mainly use the camera with a Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 and speed booster. I know that Andrew says it works alright if the stabilizer is set to 20mm, but I was wondering if anyone else has experiences with this or similar combinations?

[utsira]

On the E-M5 I use a custom picture mode (in order to save the settings) that uses picture mode natural, sharpness -2, saturation 0 (though this could be -2 if you really want it flat), contrast 0, with a custom curve of shadows +2, highlights -2. The idea is that the custom curve is more controllable than setting contrast to -2.

 

Never use auto WB as rather than setting wb once at the start of the shoot (as most other cameras I've used do), it will continuously vary the wb throughout the shot.

 

NR to off.

 

You have to shoot with the mode dial on "movie", as it is the only way to lock exposure (yes, even in manual mode, exposure doesn't lock in video for some reason). Unfortunately movie mode is a kind of baby mode that gimps the best features of the u.i:

1. it removes the exposure meter from the display (why, Olympus why??).

2. it overrides your custom settings for the down button and right button. I have these set up for one touch access to ISO and WB, the same as on a Panasonic. This setting is only recognised in the photo modes.

3. it replaces the fantastic quick menu that the photo modes get with a stripped down menu that doesn't include, for instance, picture styles.

 

So you have to jog the dial round to one of the PASM photography modes if you want to see the exposure meter, check which picture style you're using, have one touch access to wb ISO etc etc. For photos, the UI is absolutely perfect. For video, it's gimped, for no reason that I can fathom. There's nothing remotely deal-breaking of course, but it will come as a bit of a shock coming from a Panasonic, which has a wonderful UI for videographers.

 

Of course, perhaps all these UI complaints were fixed on the E-M1. I'd be very interested to hear.

 

To maintain 180 degree shutter, shoot at 1/60. This will make electric lighting flicker in 50hz environments though, so use 1/50. Honestly, I don't think you will be able to tell (did you watch my video on one of the OMD firmware threads that mixed 1/50 and 1/60 shutter? Could you see a difference?)

 

If you retime 30p footage in a 24p timeline, you'll get a nice 80% slow motion effect. I'm not sure that you'd want to put it in a 25p timeline, but presumably it would be 83 and a third % slow mo. 

[Inazuma]

Ahhhh turns out the store doesn't have a display model :(

 

Thanks for the info anyway utsira!

 

Really wish I could get a hold of some EM1 footage showing landscape with flattest settings, no sharpening and no NR

[Guest fe4a3f5e8381673ce80017d29a8375f1]

Hi everyone,

I am considering moving from a GH3 to an Olympus OMD EM1. Mainly because the GH3's viewfinder and LCD are too low resolution to find critical focus with manual lenses quickly and easily. 

 

G6? Very similar image to GH3 but with focus peaking and good EVF. Works beautifully with Speedbooster and manual glass. 

 

The more I use the G6 the more I love it ...

[andy lee]

I second what Matt says the G6 has an amazing EVF like noting else I have ever used

I have now built new shoulder mount rigs just so I can use the EVF all the time , I never use the rear screen to film with.

Focus peaking on an OLED EVF is amazing - I will never go back !!

[utsira]

One more thing to add to my list of E-M5 usability gripes, 4, the magnification focus checking is disabled on the movie dial. If you have a custom key set to focus magnify, it now does nothing. You have to use the electronic tele (only 2x) as a substitute, and remember to disengage before you start filming.

 

It's almost as if it's a bug. If they made one tiny change, namely allowing the video exposure to lock in "M" mode (as it should do, that's why they have "manual mode" on cameras), then the whole thing would make sense. People who want point and shoot fully automated video can use the stripped-down video spot on the mode dial, and those who want access to everything, exposure metering and locking, focus checking, iso/ wb/ picture style short cuts etc, can use the "M" mode.

 

I should stress this is the E-M5 I'm talking about. I did play with an E-M1 when it first came out, but I hadn't had the E-M5 long enough at that point to work out what the problems with the u.i. were and hence to check whether the E-M1 improved things. I'll have another go with an E_M1 next time I'm at the camera store to see if things have improved.

 

By contrast, the G6.... great focus peaking (somehow more discriminating than the peaking on the NEXs I've used), focus magnification (including picture-in-picture so that you can maintain an overall sense of your framing while checking the centre point), an onscreen focal distance gauge etc etc. It's a joy. And the image quality rocks. A real shame that it's apparently being discontinued, with no G7 replacement. According to 43 rumors, the GX line will also not have a follow-up (once GM gets an EVF). So going forward they'll only have GH and GM. I think before they had too many lines (GF etc), but now apparently they'll only have 2? I think there's definitely room for a "rebel" style camera in their lineup (ie a camera like the G6 which debuts at $700 or whatever, has a mic port and everything videographers need, falls to $500 or so after 8 months)

[Inazuma]

OK so I got back from the store (Jessops). It happens that not only did they have the Panasonic G6 on display, they also had the OMD EM1!

 

Panasonic G6

1. The viewfinder and LCD are definitely more usable (than the GH3), especially with the focus peaking! The viewfinder is a little bit bigger than the GH3's and doesn't have the smearing when you look at the edges.
2. The most surprising thing though was that the camera was actually as easy (if not easier) to hold as my GH3! With the speed booster and Sigma 18-35mm attached (which in total is about the length of an elephant's trunk and about 2 tonnes in weight).
3. One strange thing was that when you click to get on the menu, you are presented with four or five icons, like the Sony NEX series. Not sure if you can turn this off.
4. The sharpness of the picture is as expected - BUT - the amount of noise when using flat settings (at iso 200) is incredible. Worse than my GX7 for sure. And probably worse than my GH3.

Olympus OM-D E-M1

• In between looking at this and the G6, I looked at the Fujifilm XT1. That camera has a ridiculously large and clear viewfinder. The EM'1 is not quite as large, but still noticeably bigger and clearer than any others I've tried (NEX 6, a6000, GX7, GH3, G6). I could manual focus without any focus aids. It was basically as good as an optical viewfinder.
• The grip on the camera is probably the best I've used. It just seems to fit in your hand so securely.
• Menu system isn't as straight forward as Panasonic's but its not awful like the NEX series was.
• The stabilisation system is completely ridiculous. Granted, it's been a while since I've used any stabilised lens, but this really does kick ass. I set it at 18mm and my lens was stable throughout its zoom range.
• But here's the real kicker. The video quality at flat settings (NR off and -2 sharpness, saturation, contrast) is better than expected. OK it doesn't resolve as much detail. If you take a frame from a Panasonic video, it looks like a downscaled picture. With the Olympus you have to downscale the video to about 75% for it to look somewhat as detailed as a photo. However, there is far less noise. The highlight retention might be better; not too sure. And the stabilisation isn't as frantic as it was on the E-P5. The video image is basically what the G6 would be if it had been stabilised in post and a strong NR had been applied (however, the G6 image with NR applied looks worse than the EM1).
• But there is one big problem. Shooting at 1/50th makes all movement jarring. This camera really does need a 25p option or it is unusable in artificial 50hz light.

 

Some comparison pictures (not much but they're the only frames with almost the same exposure setting and framing): http://imgur.com/a/wk9DJ

 

Overall I'm not sure what to do. With the G6 you have to push shadows up a lot to bring it to the same dynamic range as the EM1, but then you get a lot of noise. However it is a lot cheaper and the image is more detailed (I prefer detail to noise-freeness). But then there's that lovely stabilisation... But then there's the frame rate issue... argh...

[utsira]

 

• But there is one big problem. Shooting at 1/50th makes all movement jarring. This camera really does need a 25p option or it is unusable in artificial 50hz light.

 

 

Congratulations on finding an actual camera store with display models where they'll let you put a memory card in - they seem to be increasingly hard to find in the UK recently, sadly.

 

I'm really surprised about your comments on motion. You're talking about 30 fps with a 1/50 shutter? 

[Inazuma]

Yes that's right. Although I have been studying the footage for the last two hours now and will say it's maybe not as bad as I thought. It's probably because i wasnt used to seeing a piece of footage having fast pans mixed with complete stability.

[Guest fe4a3f5e8381673ce80017d29a8375f1]

Yes low light and dynamic range are not friends of the G6. DR is definately not great but I have learned to get nice exposure in a lot of tricky situations. Basically, if you have light the G6 is awesome. It has real character as a video camera. If you like shooting with available light and in low light situations, it isn't going to do much for you. The D5200/D5300/D3300 are the best options for that in the price bracket. The D5200 with the hack is quite an interesting option (more detailed), and you could probably get one pretty cheap now. I swear by the G6 and D5300 combo. They edit together very nicely with a little practice.

 

I have a video I shot last weekend entirely on the G6 I will post in the next day or two. I think it really shows why I love the camera so much ...

[utsira]

Yeah, there is quite a bit of noise on the G6. I have no idea whether this person's testing methodology is sound, but ISO 640 seems clean:

 

 

I do use noise reduction quite a bit I guess (I use neat video), and I seem to be able to hold onto the low light detail, it doesn't become mush. With fast primes (panny 20 1.7), or as you mentioned the 1.8 sigma zoom on a speed booster, and a bit of NR, it's OK in low/ available light.

[Inazuma]

That's very interesting. Can any of you confirm that guy's findings? I just did a quick test with similar settings on my GX7 and the noise at each ISO level was as expected (ie. more with each higher iso value)

 

Also, does your speedbooster have any play at the camera mount of the G6?

[Guest fe4a3f5e8381673ce80017d29a8375f1]

Noise on the G6 is better than the GH2 but not as good as the GX7. But none of the Panasonics are great in that area. It's just something you learn to work with. It's the same with the GH4 - noise is "OK" down sampled from 4K but if you need clean footage in low light you buy a 5DIII or A7S instead/as well.

 

As Utsira says, with a speed booster, Sigma and some Neat you are going to be able to do a lot, but it's not going to give you passable results in the dark. 

 

This was shot a while after sunset on my G6 with Speed Booster and Nikkor 85mm f2 AI-S wide open ISO 1600. I then NeatVideo'd it to death to get rid of the large amount of noise and macro blocking  in the shadows, which made it pretty mushy, so I added some dirty grain.

 

 

Result: I wish I'd had my D5300 that day! But then I hardly ever use the Nikon in daylight these days. The G6 is just so nice in sunshine. But living in the UK that means it's at its best just a few months of the year and they are nearly over. 

 

The SpeedBooster does have a little play on my G6 mount, but it's not a problem in any way other than annoying me a little considering the thing cost so much. It doesn't interfere with usability or image at all, and most of the time I don't notice it.

[Inazuma]

Thanks Matt. Is the d5300 really that much better in low light?

[Guest fe4a3f5e8381673ce80017d29a8375f1]

That test was actually in daylight (though late afternoon on a grey day). It was only a sharpness test, I just graded it a bit funny purely to match the cameras.

 

The G6 is definitely sharper than the D5300, but the Nikon easily outperforms the Panasonic in terms of noise and perceived DR. The colours also hold together much better in low light. The G6 gets muddy and grey, the D5300 continues to show lovely Nikon colours.

 

Even with the speed booster the G6 doesn't compete with the Nikon for low light image. Of course the D5300 is no A7S, but it is on par with the 5DIII, and better in some ways (DR for example).

[Inazuma]

After you made that comment, my interest just piqued. I went to Calumet this morning (very close to where I live) and tried the Nikon d5300 against my GX7. Would have done the GH3 but it's all packed up ready to be sent back to Panasonic.
 
The result surprised me a bit!
 

 

- You can dial the Nikon camera to have less saturation than the Panny.
- If you want lower contrast with the GX7 you should underexpose and increase the iDynamic or simply just add exposure in post.
- Noise is much higher with the Nikon at ISO 3200.
- Colours are different; could be due to lens, filter or camera. In any case they can be edited in post.
- At ISO 200 the Panny shows a barely noticeable fine grain noise in dark areas.
- Both cameras resolve similar amounts of detail! This surprised me because I always thought my GX7 resolved a lot more.
Edit: One other thing I forgot to try was to tone down the highlight curve on the GX7, which would have made the light less harsh on the girl.

[Guest fe4a3f5e8381673ce80017d29a8375f1]

Hmm interesting. I know the GX7 is better in low light than the G6, but yes quite surprising. 

 

Of course to some extent it depends on the settings and profiles used, but Andrew's GM1 (same sensor as GX7) review comes to a similar conclusion:

 

[Inazuma]

I actually really like the GX7 ergonomics. It works really well for small lenses like the Olympus 17mm f1.8 or even the Panny 12-35mm f2.8. The problem is my GX7 is actually a little damaged. There are several large dead pixels on the sensor as well as a black dot that gets bigger as I narrow my lens apertures. And yes the small grip is a problem for big lenses. And actually the other thing is that the viewfinder's colours are very off, not to mention the eyecup is very small and hard to use in daylight (ironically).

I might join you and Andy in the G6 club afterall :) Yes the DR and noise is worse.. but it's at least >better than the GH2, which was loved by a lot of indie film makers.

[leeys]

The GH3, GX7, GM1 and E-M1 all use the next generation of sensors, and will easily outperform a G6. Won't advise you to go to a previous generation sensor if you can help it.

[Guest fe4a3f5e8381673ce80017d29a8375f1]

The GH3, GX7, GM1 and E-M1 all use the next generation of sensors, and will easily outperform a G6. Won't advise you to go to a previous generation sensor if you can help it.

 

The GH3 is now an old sensor too, and a lot of people actually preferred the GH2 image to the GH3. Technically the GH3 wins on most counts, but not by much of a margin. They certainly both look very similar if you put them next to GH4 footage anyway!