Fx30 or a7IV for Hybrid w/ 1 lens?

[SRV1981]

Gents! I’m most likely preordering the S5II. The videos that compare to Sony seem like Panny is the go to! 

[Trek of Joy]

1 minute ago, SRV1981 said:

Gents! I’m most likely preordering the S5II. The videos that compare to Sony seem like Panny is the go to! 

Awesome! So what's your lens of choice?

 

[IronFilm]

10 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Awesome! So what's your lens of choice?

The bundled kit with the 20-60mm zoom and with the 50mm prime is insanely good value for money and a good enough starting point to get going with. 

[A_Urquhart]

20 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

Gents! I’m most likely preordering the S5II. The videos that compare to Sony seem like Panny is the go to! 

I think you'll be very happy with the S5II. Looks like a great hybrid camera on paper. 

I wonder wether Panasonic will be able to add timecode input vie the mic minijack in a firmware update like is possible on the BMD Pocket cameras? Seems like a strange omission especially in the X model considering it is obviously aimed at the more professional user. Lack of TC makes it a non option for many and seems like a fairy simple feature to implement but then I'm no engineer.

 

[SRV1981]

Actually thinking 24-105 f4 and maybe a 35 or 50 prime. 
 

if not, then a 28-70 f2.8

[newfoundmass]

3 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

24-105 f4

A very solid, versatile lens. You can get some good portraits at the telephoto end, which makes up for the f4. I think it's cool that Panny is focusing on more f4 zooms. It's a good balance between size and price. 

May I suggest the 35mm prime over the 50? I think that's what I'm gonna end up getting. In APSC mode it turns into a 50mm, so you basically have two focal lengths in one lens.

[Al Dolega]

I'm happy with my 24-105 as well. Very versatile and the OIS makes the stabilization even better. Focuses really close too.

[PannySVHS]

The 24-105 is pretty nice. For video high resolving. Built is good. I don´t like the manual focus. When focussing manually with my S1 the lens it shows little steps during focus transition. It´s not smooth. So I feel it is of limited use for paid work. That´s why I got the 24-105 Canon L, which I plan on using via adapter and on my FS700 with a speedbooster which both I got for a great price two years ago. Could be a nice lens for AF with the S5II. Not sure if the tiny steps are still visible then.

My S1 already has the ProresRaw and Braw over hdmi. S5II demands a 200 Euro update key for that. To be fair though I had to update my S1 to VLog  with a paid update before I could do the Raw update later on.

So for me the only reason to buy a S5II would be the great video AF and the swivel screen. I would cost me around 900 EUR after selling my S1. Too much for me. So decision taken.:)

[newfoundmass]

10 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

The 24-105 is pretty nice. For video high resolving. Built is good. I don´t like the manual focus. When focussing manually with my S1 the lens it shows little steps during focus transition. It´s not smooth. So I feel it is of limited use for paid work. That´s why I got the 24-105 Canon L, which I plan on using via adapter and on my FS700 with a speedbooster which both I got for a great price two years ago. Could be a nice lens for AF with the S5II. Not sure if the tiny steps are still visible then.

My S1 already has the ProresRaw and Braw over hdmi. S5II demands a 200 Euro update key for that. To be fair though I had to update my S1 to VLog  with a paid update before I could do the Raw update later on.

So for me the only reason to buy a S5II would be the great video AF and the swivel screen. I would cost me around 900 EUR after selling my S1. Too much for me. So decision taken.:)

I wonder if it's your copy? Mine doesn't have that problem, or at least I haven't noticed it. 

Oh, and another reason I like it! It's not parfocal but it's very close!

[PannySVHS]

It´s doing very slight and small steps, at least my copy is.:) @newfoundmass Once I saw it on mine, I cannot unsee it. The beauty of the Canon L 24-105 is in the mechanic and haptic quality. It is a joy to hold and operate. The manual focus allows hard stops with override. The Panny 24-105 is fly by wire all the way. I will still keep that lens just for giving it a try on a S5II bodies some time, if I come to rent one for a job.

[Django]

The S5II is certainly a very disruptive camera at its price point. Panny has solved its Achilles heel and is now a serious contender in the FF hybrid market. It remains to be seen how reliable this first-gen PDAF is but the tests so far seem promising. 6K open-gate is super dope. On the downside 4K60p is in S35 crop mode and 120p FHD. Rolling shutter is also average at 21ms.

A7IV has a very similar slow sensor with the same 4K60p crop and even worst RS. No 6K but higher 33MP stills. Has cool things like breathing comp and clear image zoom. 

R6II should also definitely get a mention, especially in the US since it is priced the same as A7IV. It is still the only camera in its class that can shoot 4K60p no crop. 6K ProRes RAW external. 16ms RS. Best AF imo. Very easy to grade Clog3. 

In my opinion R6II destroys A7IV due to the above advantages and should be the direct competitor to S5II.

Finally OP did mention "image feel" and SOOC color science. This is were things get subjective. My personal preference is by far for Canon. Sony second with their latest gen CS. Panasonic third, its not bad or anything but I just find every single SOOC Panny footage kinda dull and vanilla. Same thing with the Panny lenses. They're very sharp & accurate but lack any type of mojo. Clinical is what I'd call the Panny look. Now this is just my subjective biased opinion, and some people actually like sharp & accurate colours/lenses.

In the end I always look at lens options and again this is somewhat subjective but for first-party options it is Canon/Sony for me. Sony for their Zeiss range and Canon because of all the affordable EF legacy lenses but RF is also solid and the non-L series RF are quite affordable. I'd probably go Sigma if I were on Panasonic.

[ntblowz]

2 hours ago, Django said:

Finally OP did mention "image feel" and SOOC color science. This is were things get subjective. My personal preference is by far for Canon. Sony second with their latest gen CS. Panasonic third, its not bad or anything but I just find every single SOOC Panny footage kinda dull and vanilla. Same thing with the Panny lenses. They're very sharp & accurate but lack any type of mojo. Clinical is what I'd call the Panny look. Now this is just my subjective biased opinion, and some people actually like sharp & accurate colours/lenses.

 

I beg to differ, I think the color from GH6 and onward is quite pleasant looking. I edited a video with GH6/R5/GH5S a few months before.

GH6 was on nature profile but straight out of cam it just look nice, GH5S have that slight magenta and clinical look. In the end I try to match to R5 to that of GH6 nature profile as I found it look nicer.

One big downside of R6II for me is screen goes blank if u have hdmi out and recording at same time, not good for some of the events or shoot I do without getting external monitor involved to make it work.

[Django]

What I'm seeing so far from S5ii leaves me cold when it comes to SOOC standard look. Typical clinical look. But maybe demos with other profiles will change my mind. And there is always LUT support, a great feature for custom SOOC looks.

GH6 has ProRes which is such a great chunky codec and that dual gain sensor so probably the best IQ of a Panny mirrorless. M4/3 also opens up the door to so many interesting lenses. Its a real shame it didn't get PDAF, hopefully a G6 mk2 is in the works. 

[Emanuel]

PDAF is a risky step for Panasonic, only manual focus shooters will buy the old stuff from now on and GH6 as well the other L mount offers are too recent and marvelous tools to be outdated on sales side.

I believe reason why they have resisted. Too long IMO, but better late than never anyway : D

[ade towell]

I think the only reason Panasonic now has PDAF is because Sony finally decided they would sell them a sensor with it functioning. It seems Sony has made another generational AF leap with their new AI assisted AF system and so threw Panasonic a bone. 

Sony seem to have taken a lead on AF these days with Canon and now Panasonic close behind but definitely both trailing in 2nd place.

Colour definitely is subjective - I prefer Panasonic colours with vlog over Fuji and then Canon for me. All have a really lovely image so to me it is then the features which make Panasonic S5ii the stand out, it ticks every box I have and has no real weakness. From great DR, full HDMI, class leading IBIS, up to 10 loadable luts and all kinds of connectivity with monitor and still being able to use touchscreen it is such an upgrade from the Canon R6 and also beats out the R6ii. All at a much cheaper price. Be nice to play around with some anamorphic too, has been a while 

Another big plus for me - audio was always something Panasonic seemed to take a little more seriously on their mirrorless cameras than others, and sounds like the S5ii takes that up another level. Apparently with pretty clean pre amps it's capable of recording 4 audio tracks 96khz 24 bit and takes Line level in (unusual for mirrorless) and can connect my Sound Devices Mix pre-d when needed.

[Django]

S5ii has some great features indeed but S35 crop in 4K60p is a pretty big weakness imo. It has a slow sensor readout with very average RS. So perfect it is not. If FF 4K60p is important to you then R6/R6ii remains the better option imo.

As for AF, I still think Canon dominates. Sony is very good but a good AF system isn't just about a sticky robotic AI imo but how good you the operator can control it. Canon gives me that perfect control while still being very sticky and the latest-gen AF has all the animal eye-AF and various vehicle recognition etc.

So honestly for me, I'd be nervous jumping over to Panasonic. The new PDAF looks promising and is a huge step in the right direction but it's still first-gen and I've seen some tests where its still pretty average. So getting past the new camera hype, and looking at the S5ii fairly, the LUT support and 6K open-gate are to me the only clear advantages.. which is great considering the lower price. Just not important enough to warrant a system switch and losing FF 4K60p, Canon CS and DPAF2 imo. But hey YMMV.

[ade towell]

Ha sorry we both seem to be jumping across different threads - think I answered the lack of interest in 4k50p thing at least for me on the other thread.

The S5ii is definitely not perfect but so many of the annoyances of the R6 are now covered, the R6ii for me still lacks what I feel are important features. Maybe it's because i was mainly using EF lenses with adaptor but found the AF on the R6 to still be something I wouldn't want to rely on - even simple talking head shots it would sometimes lose focus which I thought was its bullet proof bread and butter

Anyway all good we just have slightly different needs and tastes, hard to pick a bad camera these days

[ade towell]

Other little things like the kooky way to get white balance on Canon cameras was annoying, and that I trust Panasonic much more than Canon to support the camera better with firmware updates going forward. Always feels like Canon wants you to buy their top of the range camera if you want decent support - the R6 suffered from being in the shadow of the R5

[ade towell]

Oh yes and synchro scan is a really useful thing I missed from Panasonic, helps with flicker on screens and also some LED lights had strange refresh rates.. Super handy and it's on the S5ii

Sorry for all the seperate posts, doesn't give you long to edit 

[Django]

The R6 mark1 definitely had various setbacks but I feel the Mark2 fixes everything and even throws in a bunch of unexpected stuff like false colour and pre-record buffer. It now has anti-flicker for video in either auto or manual settings:

So yeah lotta these specs are cross platform and like you said hard to pick a bad camera these days!