Sony vs Panny

[Django]

19 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Is there a crop in 4K/50?

I am not sure, but if that's true, that is a main disadvantage in 2023, even for such a cheap camera. Is something to be expected I guess..

I am split for going Pana myself..It is very close to perfect, and I am sure there will be multi firmware updates..

Yes S5ii has a S35 crop in 4K60p and 21ms RS. It's a pretty slow sensor readout like A7IV.

R6II is the only camera in its price range that does a no crop FF 4K60p. 16ms RS.

That's a pretty big advantage for the Canon and with 6K ProRes RAW external, it is still a very worthy alternative to S5ii.

[ade towell]

41 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Is there a crop in 4K/50?

I am not sure, but if that's true, that is a main disadvantage in 2023, even for such a cheap camera. Is something to be expected I guess..

I am split for going Pana myself..It is very close to perfect, and I am sure there will be multi firmware updates..

Yes it's a crop for 4k50p but that doesn't bother me as I don't really use it, am sure it's a big deal for some though...

With the Canon R6 I thought full frame 4k50p would be a great thing but I have only used it once when I thought I might want some slow mo but didn't and ended up conforming it to 25p anyway. I have a possibly irrational dislike to unmotivated slow mo - I am obviously in the minority here but it is very rare when I see it used in a way that actually adds to the story. I do mainly documentary stuff and realise it can have its uses but generally it's not for me

[Django]

I don't shoot that much slow-mo either to be honest but when I do I really appreciate not having a crop.

Another big advantage of shooting 4K50p is it halves the RS. That means 8ms on R6ii which is awesome.

So I mostly shoot in 50p for fast handheld run & gun scenes where I want minimal RS and then conform to 25p no slowdown.

50p is for me mostly a RS workaround trick with added slow mo possibility as a bonus!

[ade towell]

Yes that sounds like a good workaround

[FHDcrew]

16 hours ago, ade towell said:

Yes it's a crop for 4k50p but that doesn't bother me as I don't really use it, am sure it's a big deal for some though...

With the Canon R6 I thought full frame 4k50p would be a great thing but I have only used it once when I thought I might want some slow mo but didn't and ended up conforming it to 25p anyway. I have a possibly irrational dislike to unmotivated slow mo - I am obviously in the minority here but it is very rare when I see it used in a way that actually adds to the story. I do mainly documentary stuff and realise it can have its uses but generally it's not for me

Same boat.  Rarely is even 60p footage used in my videos, it's pretty much always straight 24.

[newfoundmass]

To me an APSC crop in 4K 60 isn't that big of a deal, especially as someone that likes M43. I film in APSC mode sometimes anyway to get some extra reach. It'd be nice to have the choice instead of having the crop forced on me, but from an actual user experience it very much gets an "oh well" from me. 

 

[Django]

Sensor size has got nothing to do with it. There is a 1.5x crop on whatever lens you use in 4K60p.

Wether or not that bothers you is up to you but its worth a mention when comparing camera specs imo.

[Amazeballs]

I like this IBIS test. Shows that the gap between Panny and Sony is not that huge. Panny still does more warpy stuff in the corners if you go wider than 24mm and they both need a gimbal for a perfectly stable shot. Panny doesnt crop though cos frankly their e-stab is just usless, dont use it. 

[ade towell]

From what I've seen Panasonic have released a new firmware that deals with wobble effect up to 20mm. Looks like the Sony IBIS is effective when walking with active mode on - am presuming that is with a slight crop. Panasonic much better with just IBIS 

[newfoundmass]

7 hours ago, Amazeballs said:

I like this IBIS test. Shows that the gap between Panny and Sony is not that huge. Panny still does more warpy stuff in the corners if you go wider than 24mm and they both need a gimbal for a perfectly stable shot. Panny doesnt crop though cos frankly their e-stab is just usless, dont use it. 

The gap is pretty huge after 24mm. Sony doesn't even really look stabilized at that point. 

If you aren't moving Sony's IBIS is pretty decent. But once you get moving, you're gonna end up having problems. 

[Al Dolega]

On 1/13/2023 at 6:52 AM, Django said:

Yes S5ii has a S35 crop in 4K60p and 21ms RS. It's a pretty slow sensor readout like A7IV.

R6II is the only camera in its price range that does a no crop FF 4K60p. 16ms RS.

 

On 1/13/2023 at 8:05 AM, Django said:

Another big advantage of shooting 4K50p is it halves the RS. That means 8ms on R6ii which is awesome.

So I mostly shoot in 50p for fast handheld run & gun scenes where I want minimal RS and then conform to 25p no slowdown.

50p is for me mostly a RS workaround trick with added slow mo possibility as a bonus!

Just to be clear, the RS halves on the S cameras when in APS-C mode as well. So the S5ii's 4K60 would be 10.5ms, same as my S1, which seems to be good enough for me. I very rarely see skew or wobble and I shoot fast action.

I mostly shoot 60p so that I have the option for slo-mo later (editing/finishing in 30p). I've been doing this at 180 degree shutter (so 1/120th), so when I use a clip at normal-mo it does have a touch of the "fast shutter" look, but I think this is less of an issue with 30p. I've been thinking about trying a 270-degree shutter with 60p (so 1/90th) to alleviate this, haven't tried it yet.

[Django]

1 hour ago, Al Dolega said:

 

Just to be clear, the RS halves on the S cameras when in APS-C mode as well. So the S5ii's 4K60 would be 10.5ms, same as my S1, which seems to be good enough for me. I very rarely see skew or wobble and I shoot fast action.

I mostly shoot 60p so that I have the option for slo-mo later (editing/finishing in 30p). I've been doing this at 180 degree shutter (so 1/120th), so when I use a clip at normal-mo it does have a touch of the "fast shutter" look, but I think this is less of an issue with 30p. I've been thinking about trying a 270-degree shutter with 60p (so 1/90th) to alleviate this, haven't tried it yet.

Oh yeah sure it will work on S5ii too but if you mostly shoot 60p then you are essentially paying FF for an APS-C cam.

When I switch to 60p I like the framing to remain the same so not a fan of cameras that crop on HFR shooting. It's a serious compromise imo.

Interesting thought about 270-degree shutter on 60p. I also often struggle with fast shutter look when shooting 180 degree (1/120) in 60p. I'll have to experiment with that. Thanks for the tip!

[A_Urquhart]

56 minutes ago, Django said:

Oh yeah sure it will work on S5ii too but if you mostly shoot 60p then you are essentially paying FF for an APS-C cam.

When I switch to 60p I like the framing to remain the same so not a fan of cameras that crop on HFR shooting. It's a serious compromise imo.

Same here. That's actually what I love about the FX30. No crop at 50/60p. I can switch frame rates without having to worry about lenses and crop factors. With the speed booster, I can get FF up to 60p too without a crop factor if desired but mainly, I'm happy with APSC and the great lens selection that comes with it.

[ade towell]

On 1/13/2023 at 1:05 PM, Django said:

I don't shoot that much slow-mo either to be honest but when I do I really appreciate not having a crop.

Another big advantage of shooting 4K50p is it halves the RS. That means 8ms on R6ii which is awesome.

So I mostly shoot in 50p for fast handheld run & gun scenes where I want minimal RS and then conform to 25p no slowdown.

50p is for me mostly a RS workaround trick with added slow mo possibility as a bonus!

Ha OK I tried this today to help with the RS on the Canon R6 - and ran into overheating issues even quicker than I normally would. I can see it working great on cameras that don't overheat, but I guess that's not the R6...

[ntblowz]

2 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

Same here. That's actually what I love about the FX30. No crop at 50/60p. I can switch frame rates without having to worry about lenses and crop factors.

Well that one aspect of what I love about R5, no crop on any mode with 8k/4k120p/4k60p/4k30p etc. 

But IBIS even though better Sony's but not as stable as Pany that for sure.

[Django]

41 minutes ago, ade towell said:

Ha OK I tried this today to help with the RS on the Canon R6 - and ran into overheating issues even quicker than I normally would. I can see it working great on cameras that don't overheat, but I guess that's not the R6...

Well yeah R6 overheats faster in 4K60. That's well documented. I shoot short clips and always turn the camera off between clips when shooting 4K60. On longer shoots I'd have the screen flipped out and even open battery and SD doors to minimise heat. By doing all that I never actually got stuck with the overheat but it was always something on my mind. 

Its the number one reason I sold the R6. No workaround was worth that stress.

[A_Urquhart]

1 hour ago, ntblowz said:

Well that one aspect of what I love about R5, no crop on any mode with 8k/4k120p/4k60p/4k30p etc. 

But IBIS even though better Sony's but not as stable as Pany that for sure.

R5 has too many other shortcomings for professional video use. R5C though......

[Django]

Should also be mentioned R6/R6II uses full width 5K/6K oversampled image for their 4K60p. 

Versus a line-skipped 4K60p on R5. 

R6/R6II have by far the nicest FF 4K60p mode punching way above its class. 

 

5 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

Same here. That's actually what I love about the FX30. No crop at 50/60p. I can switch frame rates without having to worry about lenses and crop factors. With the speed booster, I can get FF up to 60p too without a crop factor if desired but mainly, I'm happy with APSC and the great lens selection that comes with it.

Yeah definitely a strong point for FX30!