10 questions I'll be asking Canon and Nikon at Photokina - join me and present yours

[Quirky]

The above is a much better approach. Good luck. 

 

Again, agreed. ;) 

This second revision is better. But then again, isn't it actually just a long winded and a bit more confrontational way of asking the "What are your plans for video in near future products?" suggested by Olly above? 

 

But indeed, whichever way you see it, this version might even lead to a conversation of some sort, and reading/hearing about the answer to that would be much more interesting than to those thinly veiled tantrums listed in the blog post.

[CaMeRa QuEsT]

The D5200's sensor, and presumably all 24mp APS-C sensors used by Nikon thereafter, come from Toshiba.  Go here for confirmation:

 

http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/blog/inside-the-nikon-d5200-dslr-toshiba-found/

 

Also presumably, the only non-Toshiba 24mp APS-C sensor used by Nikon is the one on the D3200, which is actually a Nikon sensor:

 

http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/blog/full-frame-dslr-cameras-part-1-nikon-vs-sony/

[Marino215]

The only question I would ask is why dont we have an A7s type lowlight/ low noise sensor that shoots 12 bit RAW ProRes dnxhd, 120 fps 4k camera with built in nd, in an c100 body? Take the best features and wrap it up into one camera. If Red can do it I'm positive Canon or Nikon can do it too for way less money

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Before asking any question remember that they are not allowed to speak a word about their future roadmap...

[Larry Dortch]

Can you ask why Canon or Nikon did not join the Micro Four Thirds consortium and if either one of them has plans to join in the future at least for lens production. I can say this with absolute certainty if Canon had Micro Four Thirds lenses when I first bought into the system with the GH2 and the OMD e-m5 I would have never have bought a Panasonic or Olympus lens.

[Andrew Reid]

The D5200's sensor, and presumably all 24mp APS-C sensors used by Nikon thereafter, come from Toshiba.  Go here for confirmation:

 

http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/blog/inside-the-nikon-d5200-dslr-toshiba-found/

 

Also presumably, the only non-Toshiba 24mp APS-C sensor used by Nikon is the one on the D3200, which is actually a Nikon sensor:

 

http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/blog/full-frame-dslr-cameras-part-1-nikon-vs-sony/

 

I wish it were that simple! D5200 sensor marking Toshiba, same spec sensor in D5300 but with a less noisy circuit connecting it to the image processor had Sony markings.

[Andrew Reid]

The only thing I know they definitely 100% won't answer for sure, is questions relating to future products.

 

 

Before asking any question remember that they are not allowed to speak a word about their future roadmap...

 

:blink:

[Andrew Reid]

The only question I would ask is why dont we have an A7s type lowlight/ low noise sensor that shoots 12 bit RAW ProRes dnxhd, 120 fps 4k camera with built in nd, in an c100 body? Take the best features and wrap it up into one camera. If Red can do it I'm positive Canon or Nikon can do it too for way less money

 

I think that's expecting a helluva lot but I can give you a hint as to the answer. By C100 body do you mean C100 price tag as well? They're not going to give us the crown jewels for that price. They would reserve raw, ProRes, 120fps, etc for a high end body. Canon move only once the competition is a threat. I have a feeling now the FS7 is here they will roll out 4K into the $6k to $10k range, but I can't see them putting much else in there.

[Superka]

Here's the manner in which I'm going to be presenting my questions:

 

First of all congratulations for being a sales leader in the DSLR market and for the successful launch of Cinema EOS. I do however have some concerns that I feel my readers would like addressing.

 

Canon’s strong sales are based on having that price-performance ratio just right and about leading in performance at a price which is attractive to the customer. Looking at a lot of the recent output of the company in terms of DSLRs I feel that performance advantage is now actually a shortfall to the competition especially in two regards - video and image sensors.

 

Panasonic and Sony are offering 4K video on their consumer stills cameras and Canon are not. Moreoever Sony’s image sensors are ahead on all the key performance metrics - resolution (36MP), low light (12MP full frame), dynamic range (even the cheap A7 is 2 stops better than the 1D X) and video (full pixel readout on the A7S).

 

In terms of price Sony have a more aggressive price point for the A7 vs the Canon 6D on full format, cheaper still when it comes to enthusiast APS-C models.

 

Also it is clear the C300 is outdated relative to the Sony FS7 just announced at IBC, which does 4K recording internally for $8k and 180fps slow-mo with a 10bit 4:2:2 XAVC codec and more importantly filmmakers who I have known to have embraced the C300 as owners are saying to Sony “well done on the ergonomicsâ€, an area of great strength traditionally for Canon and a great selling point of the C300.

 

Additionally it’s now possible for Canon users to take their hefty investment in Canon lenses to other systems, notably to Sony and Panasonic mirrorless cameras. Speaking as a user myself of a huge range of EF lenses, the only reason I haven’t sold my 5D Mark III yet is because of auto-focus. I am shooting stills and video on the A7S.

 

How would you address the concerns I’ve highlighted here today?

 

That's better. I like that you now use smaller amount of the words like "outperform", "outdated". Too many comparisons still, inconsistent many of them, like A7s and 1Dx, c300 and FS7 (too many years between), 36Mp (do you need this for video?),12Mp ...  lump everything together: old and new, different camera types (DSLR/mirrorless), different Megapixels (its clear that 12Mpx sensor will be more sensitive then those in Canon) . Who really cares that you use Sony A7s for everything? Looks like you want Canon to be Sony. 

 

 It is clear that Canon produce sensors they can produce. Canon has nothing to do but to invent new technology (or buy it) to produce better sensors, or to use Sony sensors, too. What to expect - that's the question to ask.

 

I really like the suggestion just to ask about their plans for video in DSLR/mirroroles, having mention their common drawbacks like line skipping and lack of Dynamic range - that what we all expect for better video.

 

  Besides, 

I would ask them why don't they produce true rangefinder camera like they did before.

 

Why they all produce 3:2 aspect sensors, not 1:2,3, or square.

 

Nikon produce film cameras (F6) but stopped the production of their fantastic film scanners, while people need them. Those who shoot film, as I do, would be interested.

 

Why they don't produce BW sensors or sensors with another (more soft) colors, like Kodak did.

 

Before asking any question remember that they are not allowed to speak a word about their future roadmap...

That's true, I saw this many time in their interview. 

[Andrew Reid]

Obviously when I mention 36MP I am talking about an advantage for stills, I am aware it is of detriment to video, unless you can read out all the pixels for 7K of course :)

 

I don't use my A7S for everything, never said I did. Keen to get a FS7 for slow-mo. I still use my 5D Mark III for raw video, though far less now I have the A7S. I shoot with the GH4 as a second option to my A7S, both great. And I can see a place in my bag for the FZ1000 too to get second angles, or as a shot grabber for real life action where you can't wait around to get focus right on full frame at F2.

 

My point is this: if I want slow-mo I go to Sony, or Red (rent an Epic). I don't go to Canon. If I want low light I go to Sony, again. Not Canon. That's two lost sales right there. If I want best bang for buck at $8k again I go Sony with the FS7. Looks superb. Canon have no answer to it, so at time of release the FS7 will get my $8k and Canon will get $0k. Do you see my point? And they have no decent mirrorless camera, let alone a 4K mirrorless camera, and they have no answer to the FZ1000 either.

 

Quite surprised at how many misunderstandings keep cropping up in this thread. My audience seems to have changed a lot from the days when I could just say something on level terms and be understood.

[Husah]

Some of these questions are silly. 

 

"10) The Nikon Df shared an almost identical aesthetic design to the old Nikon FM film camera, yet despite being a digital body with a very high price it is bigger and has more plastic on it. Why?"

 

Bigger? Isn't it obvious why? A digital sensor is much thicker than film and produces heat, unlike film. Why won't it be bigger?

 

"7) The sensor in the D5200 was manufactured by Sony and the sensor in the D5300 had Toshiba markings despite being almost identical in terms of performance and design. Was this a Nikon designed sensor, with the manufacturing outsourced to other companies?"

 

​Probably because it's just the same Sony/Nikon sensor manufactured in Toshiba factory.  Sony and Toshiba do share resources like manufacturing factories.  

[Marino215]

So you really like the Fs7 Andrew? That says a lot, of course I see why. It's a well made, well thought camera with a proven image. When do you think we'll see the higher end offerings with an a7s type sensor? I have to admit, my brother has the a7s and I see if it had just a little more power, perhaps higher bit depth, faster processor it could far exceed the image coming out of the fs700 and maybe even the F5. Lowlight alone it beats everything else. To me an fs7 type camera with the enhanced dynamic features from the a7s I think would excite me more. And one last thing it would be nice if a camera that didnt need an exspensive break out box to tap Into the RAW signal. Even the fs700 can force a 4k signal straight out of the SDI. For me it was a typical "Sony what the heck" moment. Thoughts? Thanks

[Superka]

About mirrorless. 
I don't care why Canon and Nikon didn't produce good mirrorless. I don't need mirrorless (if only it would be a rangefinder), because I love OVF really. I would be happy if Canon will produce DSLR with OVF as the old film camera had - 0.98x field of view, 0.92x - magnification, like my small-tiny Olympus OM-10 has. Why not produce them again? You may ask them, too!  :)

[giupipia]

I have few question for Canon: why did they have to make a new processor to finally enable full HD at 60 fps, when the guys at Magic Lantern with the 2012 technology have enabled so many other features on their cameras? Why not realease a firmware update unleashing more power to what their cameras can do? Why make a Powershot camera with built ND-filters, and not introduce them in their DSLR's? 

[Husah]

The D5200's sensor, and presumably all 24mp APS-C sensors used by Nikon thereafter, come from Toshiba.  Go here for confirmation:

 

http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/blog/inside-the-nikon-d5200-dslr-toshiba-found/

 

Also presumably, the only non-Toshiba 24mp APS-C sensor used by Nikon is the one on the D3200, which is actually a Nikon sensor:

 

http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/blog/full-frame-dslr-cameras-part-1-nikon-vs-sony/

 

That just means the sensor was made in Toshiba factory. It can still be exact same Sony/Nikon sensor made in Toshiba factory due full  capacity overload in regular Sony factory that was making the sensor. Doesn't prove shit.  

 

Toshiba and Sony share resources like that. That's nothing new. 

[Oliver Daniel]

As I recall, it was Sony and Panasonic who put "DSLR technology" into a video camera form factor way before Canon (with the FS100 and AG100 teapot). Then Canon came out with this state of the art Cinema line and did very well, and still is...... 

 

....Technology has developed since, and again, Panasonic and Sony are the ones currently innovating. Canon will be back, they are just waiting for the right moment to hit the market with a "groundbreaking" advance in their line up. 

 

To be honest, I don't think they will ever bring anything out to compete with the A7S and GH4, and all the later models.  Eventually they will, but not for a long time. For video, it's all about the Cinema line. They will hit the market hard and it will be very popular. 

 

Nikon, who cares?  :P

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

:blink:

Well Andrew I am just making sure you and all of us posting here do know that they will not be allowed to discuss their future roadmap. I am emphasizing on this because I find that many of your questions in the article, and most of the comments from the members here, fall in that category. Look here's just a punch:
 

-Does Canon recognise the need to compete or will they simply leave the hybrid stills-video market to Sony and Panasonic?

 

-or is this a case of Canon simply waiting for the competition to make their move and responding 

 

-Sony RX1 – where’s Canon’s equivalent?

 

-Consumers are increasingly turning to smartphones for all their photographic needs and it is even beginning to reduce the sales of low-to-mid range DSLRs. How does Canon intend to respond?

 

-Why do Canon not have a competing affordable cinema camera under $3000 and where’s Canon’s answer on the bundled software side to Blackmagic’s DaVinci Resolve?

 

-Nikon, where is the damn D400? 

 

-Will there be a Nikon 1 with an extremely deep buffer (>60 frames, aka 2GB RAM)?

 

-Canon, when are the new sensors coming? Proper new sensors.

 

-"What are your plans for video in near future products?"

 

-How would you address the concerns I’ve highlighted here today?

 

-why dont we have an A7s type lowlight/ low noise sensor that shoots 12 bit RAW ProRes dnxhd, 120 fps 4k camera with built in nd, in an c100 body? 

 

-Can you ask why Canon or Nikon did not join the Micro Four Thirds consortium and if either one of them has plans to join in the future at least for lens production

 

-Why not produce them again? You may ask them, too!

I would say these all fall under discussing future roadmap and the answer will be quite disappointing, well, just we're not allowed to discuss it.

You could try to ask the same question though but try to rephrase them in a way they don't seem directly about discussing future roadmap... That will help a lot.. 

[Andrew Reid]

You're very concerned with answers aren't you? I'm actually more concerned with the questions.

 

It's important to ask.

 

If you never ask you don't get.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

You're very concerned with answers aren't you? I'm actually more concerned with the questions.

It's important to ask.

If you never ask you don't get.

I guess not getting an answer is in itself an answer, and in itself information about the company's policy.

I have questions to Canon though: is it in the company's policy to remove features/capability from certain products for marketing/economic reasons? Or is it their policy to give all the capability of the product they can?

You can mention as an example the removal of the 3x 1:1 crop mode on the t3i from the T4i & T5i for example, and the removal of the 60p mode on the C100.

[Rio Kurniawan]

More than half market of DSLR are photgrapher not videographer.
Perhaps nikon will leave their video capability just like Nikon DF and they will focus only on photgraphy just like the old time. Thats what they proud of it "pure photography".
Canon maybe wil do the same to not let Nikon consume all the market of pure photography with DSLR. Canon will cut price down their Cinema EOS line to consumer level and will introduce a new model for it.
Sony just like in the past they are only focus on video for they photgraphy is just not as important as video.