Canon 7D Mark II video specs vs the enthusiast DSLR competition (GH4, A7S, 5D3)

[ocube]

You spec says 5D Mk iii - Available frame rates (1080p): 24p,25p,30p,50p,60p

 

The 5D can only do 50 & 60p @720 not 1080...

[Clayton Moore]

The 7DMKII is a stills camera release to be sure.  Nothing compelling for video people here.

[TAPTAP]

Not so sure the 7D MKII is a stills camera either, unless you have a Canon fetish or can't stand using an adapter with betters cameras like Sony's E-mount APS-C and EF-mount full frame line-up.

 

Check out this link to DXO where the 70D is compared to the D7100 and the a77 II.

 

 

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-SLT-Alpha-77-II-versus-Canon-EOS-70D-versus-Nikon-D7100___953_895_865

 

 

The sensor in the 7D MK II might use a new processor, but it is the same terrible sensor that is in the 70D.  Canon gave up DR, ISO ability, etc., to implement the dual-pixel CMOS AF (which might have it's fans-- but at what a cost).

 

The Nikon D7100 and the Sony a77 II both absolutely crush the the 70D in image quality (for stills and video).  DXO isn't the end-all-be-all, but it's an arguablly fair place to start when assessing sensor performance.

 

I think there are a number of other cameras that would easily best the 7D MK II as well, like the Sony a5100, a6000, new Fuji APS models, and so on.

 

FWIW, the 7D is ranked number 127 rightn now on DXO's sensor raatings, and the 70D is ranked at number 108.  The $300 Sony a3000 (something you'd give a child interested in photography) is ranked at number 58.

 

 

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Ratings

 

 

Like other posters have said, I'm not a Canon basher either.  I'm a... "WTF are you DOING Canon" commenter.  I own EF glass, a DSLR, 2 of their video cameras, a few point and shoot cameras, and surely some other Canon gear.  I haven't touched any of it in almost a year (except the EF glass- mounted to another camera).  I don't want to see Canon to fall asleep at the wheel and run into the fast approaching brick wall that is Sony, Panasonic, Samsung(?!) and many others.  Nikon, I'm legitimated concerned with you too, but you seem to still have a pulse (and that's another post).

 

Deeply entrenched brand loyalty breeds apathy in the short term because Canon will still sees sales from prodcuts like the 7D MK II.  These sales are really a result of decades and decades of goodwill-- that's not really on their books-- and not taken into enough consoderation by stockholders, IMHO.  Apathy breeds (or goes hand in hand with) arrogance, ignorance and greed.  In the last year alone I am willing to bet Canon's demographic has aged 5-8 years.  That is not where you want to be in 2014, going forward.

 

To any young person in the know who is looking for a new video/digital film camera with a semi-pro/enthusiast budget, the Sony FS7 seems to be it.  I think that the FS7 (a VERY ballsy move on Sony's part), alone, has killed off most of Canon's ciinema line: C100/C300/C500/1DC.  There are counter-arguments, but still.

 

I want to be excited about the next release from Canon, not dreading another 2 year wait for a crippled half-a** effort.  Where does Canon think their going to get their future video buyers?  The stills-only crowd is only aging.  From putting out what they claim to be hybrid (admit it) photo/DSLR cameras like the 7D MK II?  No.  Definitely not.

 

I only took the time to write this long-a** post because I care about Canon based on all of their gear that has served me well in the past.  IDK what to say though.

 

 

 

Tyson Preyer

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

(Quote) "but it is the same terrible sensor that is in the 70D"  

 

Yes that's a misconception common on the internet photography forums nowadays (that Canon can't produce sensors anymore and that they produce sh^&ty**images) that I blame DxO marks for. 

There is nothing wrong with the 70D sensor and image quality compared to the entire APS-C competition yet the forums make it seem like there's something HORRIBLY wrong but fail to provide any proof of it other than quoting DxO. 

What's the best/highest quality APS-C sensor that's absolutely dwarfing Canon in terms of image quality? The Sony 24mp one in the D7100?

D7100 vs 70D. This is an objective test and for you to make your own judgment. 

http://***URL removed***/reviews/canon-eos-70d/16

Can you see a resolution difference or more information the 70D is failing to capture? I don't. They seem pretty identical to me, perhaps with a negligible edge going to the Nikon as it's 4 more million pixels but a negligible edge to the Canon in resolving aliasing and moire.  

Here let's look at high ISO performance compared to the mighty Sony sensor:

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_70D/RAW_noise.shtml

Do you see a difference in noise performance? I don't. Both look pretty identical to me. 

Here another image quality comparison:

http://www.clubulfoto.com/canon-70d-vs-nikon-d7100-testul-iso/

 
Both Canon's 20.2MP sensor and Sony's 24MP produce excellent results. Both are top technology and both are indistinguishable in real-life results. We are talking WAY less than thirds of stops differences here, these sensors  produce similar VERY results, period.  I own the 60D and D5300 and use the 70D on daily bases, they produce similar image quality, this is what every reviewer who tested the cameras side by side concluded. So, even if the 7D mk II has the exact same sensor as the 70D, the exact same image quality, it's still on par with every other APS-C camera on the market, not way below and not way beyond them. But there is one thing, it is not the exact same as the 70D, it's a bit higher resolution, and a bit better in low-light, which probably makes it the new leader in the APS-C IQ.




The only aspect the 70D was inferior to the competition at is video image quality (which was due to the processing not the image sensor as we see), but now with the 7D mk II it eliminated moire/aliasing and gave 1.5/2 stops improvement in low-light performance and overall very similar image quality to the 5D mk III, which makes is again a bit better or on par with the Sony and Toshiba 24 mp sensors in the D7100/D5300, 

And let's no even go the other photographic aspects of the camera like AF, frame rate, metering, buffer speed, durability, lenses, etc which exceed the entire market but are not relevant here. 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Canon sensors and they don't produce inferior image quality to the competition. 

 

[Nikkor]

You know, the d750 is also moiree free and fullframe and has a swivel screen, but nobody cares.

[zenpmd]

THe problem with Canon is lifting the shadows. That is all. And it is annoying for high dynamic range situations for stills. A cheap 3200 has better dyanmic range than a 5dmk3 that is mental.

[JazzBox]

Sincerely I was a Canon enthusiast in 2011, but after years of using nearly all the cheap cameras (550, 600, 60) and the 5D MkIII, I was disappointed when, one year ago I bought the 70D - that Canon sold as a great innovation - and I had the same limitations I had with the 600.
I've also bought all the Picture Profiles on the market, but using them I always had some problems when I wanted to use the White Balance as an artistic choice, so I ended using the classic "neutral" (0, -4, -2, 0) for all the non-sperimental things.

Ok, on a set, in the hands of an expert operator they can still offer a great "cinematic" solution for people on a budget… but now there are just some other better options. 

I remained with Canon for some months, mainly for the lenses I had, until I discovered (thanks to Andrew) that I could have far better results with a super cheap and light camera such as the Panasonic G6.
And, more important, that with this format I could use nearly all the new and old lenses… 

Canon probably thinks that if you want a "cinema" camera you have to buy one of their C, even if they are not so smart continuing to offer an old technology in that segment. 

Also, I don't understand how can they continue ignoring what their camera do with Magic Lantern… but sincerely, after I sold all my Canon EF lenses... I don't care :)

I'm happier with Canon FD, Olympus, Zeiss…. on MFT! 
 

[Andrew Reid]

You know, the d750 is also moiree free and fullframe and has a swivel screen, but nobody cares.

 

Because the A7S takes my Canon lenses, has 4K output, has a better form factor for video, better codec and better image with S-LOG.

[Wulf]

Because the A7S takes my Canon lenses, has 4K output, has a better form factor for video, better codec and better image with S-LOG.

 

that's true, but unfortunately the colours could not compare with Nikon's, especially the skin tones.

Having seldom seen so much crap as with illgraded S-Log-footage...

 

So, I would prefere a Canikon for sunny, low ISOs anyday.

I'm aiming for both, btw, A7s and D750.

[Nikkor]

Personally I think that most bad looking a7s videos are due to user errors or LUTs orgies. If one had to choose a camera for video exclusively the A7s is the obvious answer.

[Wulf]

that's very true, araucaria, but nevertheless colours are the big weakness of both the Pany and the Sony

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Yes if you want a camera specifically for video, the A7s is a better video camera than the D750 and 7D, yet I believe many if not most people require other stills functions that are in the D750/7D and not in the A7s, so it's just about personal use, the a7s does not make the D750 or 7D obselete, both have their markets.

About the A7s colours, I believe it's user error. With Canon and Nikon cameras, the skin tones and overall colours look great straight off the memory card, therefore most of the videos shot with Nikon/Canon cameras show lovely colours, while the colours coming off the A7s in Slog look atrocious, they're not meant to be viewed that way, therefore most of the A7s videos end up with horrible colours. The truth is that if you have minimal grading skills you will get lovely colours out of the A7s, I tried it and it's not hard at all. I also remember first when the BM pocket camera came to the masses, we had samples with absolutely horrible colours. That's what happens when the companies start giving true Log formats at low price points.

[noone]

Yes if you want a camera specifically for video, the A7s is a better video camera than the D750 and 7D, yet I believe many if not most people require other stills functions that are in the D750/7D and not in the A7s, so it's just about personal use, the a7s does not make the D750 or 7D obselete, both have their markets.

About the A7s colours, I believe it's user error. With Canon and Nikon cameras, the skin tones and overall colours look great straight off the memory card, therefore most of the videos shot with Nikon/Canon cameras show lovely colours, while the colours coming off the A7s in Slog look atrocious, they're not meant to be viewed that way, therefore most of the A7s videos end up with horrible colours. The truth is that if you have minimal grading skills you will get lovely colours out of the A7s, I tried it and it's not hard at all. I also remember first when the BM pocket camera came to the masses, we had samples with absolutely horrible colours. That's what happens when the companies start giving true Log formats at low price points.

Actually you can get great colours out of the A7s (and other A7 series cameras as well as A6000 and more) even without any grading skills.

 

The Live View grading App lets you use literally millions of combinations.     The trouble would be finding something you like as there are just so many.

 

The App is more for other A7 and A6000 ETC I would think than the A7s (for cameras that people would be more likely to use without grading).

[Robert Jackson]

Although this camera has some improvements for video over other Canon offerings it is still a photography camera first with a video feature thrown in. Pretty much like all of their DSLR cameras. 

If my main focus was just stills, then I see a lot of cool things in the specs. This is especially true if I want to get into something like sports photography where this camera compares to Canon's 1DX, with a smaller sensor. 

 

As a hybrid camera though mirrorless is still king for video. Until Canon comes up with something that will compare to that I would not want to shoot exclusively video with a camera like this, or most DSLR's for that matter. I think a camera like this, with a nice auto focus system, could be a decent B or C camera at a wedding or event. I could set it up somewhere by itself and control remotely or just let it auto focus while I operate the A camera. 

 

My real motivation for buying this would be that I am an action stills shooter. The older 7D is still a decent choice over this for stills though as is the 70D if you do not need weather sealing. They cost about $800 less. Another option is this price range is to go full frame with the 6D for about $100 more. As a stills shooter there are better choices depending on your need. As a video shooter there are much better choices, some for less money, some for slightly more, that I would pick first.

[Andrew Reid]

The only aspect the 70D was inferior to the competition at is video image quality

 

 

Really??

 

In the same price range...

 

It is APS-C vs full frame (A7)

It is worse in low light than quite a few other cameras, notably the D5300

It is lower resolution, 20MP vs 24MP

It has a 2 stop dynamic range shortfall from D5300 and Sony's APS-C sensors

 

Then the drawbacks vs mirrorless are numerous...

 

It is lacking an EVF

It lacks the more 'classic' ergonomics of the Fuji X-T1 for stills

You can't adapt as many classic lenses to it

It is bigger and heavier

 

When you obscure the facts you sound like a Canon fanboy and it's not good for the forum as a knowledge base so I am saying from now on refrain from posts like the above.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Really??

In the same price range...

It is APS-C vs full frame (A7)
It is worse in low light than quite a few other cameras, notably the D5300
It is lower resolution, 20MP vs 24MP
It has a 2 stop dynamic range shortfall from D5300 and Sony's APS-C sensors

.

-Being APS-C is not being behind the competetion. -Resolution is identical (unless you mean in video mode) -lowlight is identical (unless you mean video too) -and no Sony APS-C sensors don't have 2 stops more dynamic range. That's just when comparing the cameras at the DxO test charts.

[Andrew Reid]

From my perspective here Ebrahim, I'm trying to make a forum for people to learn. If you keep stating your myths like you are some kind of Wikipedia of cameras then it makes my life much more difficult.

 

APS-C is behind the competition if your competitor offers full frame with better images for the same price. The photographic 35mm standard has always been full frame not APS-C. APS-C is a cut price consumer version of the photographic standard and to make best use of your lenses you need full frame.

 

Resolution is not identical. D7100 is 24MP and with no OLPF, and 70D is 20MP. Dynamic range, well the 70D shadows get noisy very quickly and video is rubbish too. What does DXOMark have to do with it in that case?

 

And dual-pixel AF is still way slower than contrast based AF in live-view on other cameras notably the GH4.

[Oliver Daniel]

Rather than argue, can we all just say the Canon 7D Mark II is for stills shooters who need AF with EF glass and all the other cameras are for everyone else? 

 

It's whatever suits you - there is technology for everybody's taste  :D

[Andrew Reid]

Rather than argue, can we all just say the Canon 7D Mark II is for stills shooters who need AF with EF glass and all the other cameras are for everyone else? 

 

So you are happy to leave it there are you... the EOSHD review of the 7D Mk II.... "Good for AF on Canon lenses... in stills mode".

 

Let's remain on the topic of video please.

[Oliver Daniel]

So you are happy to leave it there are you... the EOSHD review of the 7D Mk II.... "Good for AF on Canon lenses... in stills mode".

 

Let's remain on the topic of video please.

 

I was referring to the 'stills specs' debate previous to my post, so we can leave it there. 

 

My own very mini (and slightly dumb) review: 

The 7D Mk II is a DSLR camera aimed at stills shooters with a video mode, in which you also get the added benefit of 60p. While the camera doesn't offer much more for video shooters, photographers will find plenty to do using the wide range of EF glass available - now with dual pixel AF, making it ideal for sports and wildlife.  

 

Video shooters graduating from the original 7D will be better off looking at the other options available, such as the A7S and GH4, which offer far more features for better video capture (4k, slow motion, low light). 

 

If changing from Canon hurts too much, be prepared to stump up some major cash for the C line. Even so, you'd be best looking at the 'ticks every box' beast from Sony with the FS7. If that is still too far out your reach, be prepared for a long wait in the Canon line. Patience is compulsory. Did someone say Blackmagic? ;)