A GH4 in your pocket - Panasonic LX100 with 4K and Micro Four Thirds sensor

[neverending]

Unfortunately, it is looking like this is not the camera for me if the video is crippled in this way.  I was looking to move away from some of my Olympus bodies, but for £799 I think there are too many compromises here - especially if you include no touch/tilt screen or tilt EVF.

 

I'm going to wait to see what the Panasonic Gx7 or Olympus OMD-EM5 replacements give us.

For 700-800 take the FZ1000 it has more of GH4 features and a true 1:1 crop in 4k mode. Ok is a 1 inch sensor but it perform very well (is a sony BSI found in RX10 - RX100(2-3)).

For 7-800 FZ1000 offer a lot more video features (CINE Style and mic input) that LX100 not has.

Te moire in LX100 is a terrible limitations that move me away from this camera

[wobba]

How do you shoot video in bright conditions with the LX100 with no internal ND filter and no external filter thread ??

[Cinegain]

What do you mean, no filter thread?

('cause it has one actually)

[Inazuma]

Here is the "flat settings" video: 

 

Unfortunately, it is looking like this is not the camera for me if the video is crippled in this way.  I was looking to move away from some of my Olympus bodies, but for £799 I think there are too many compromises here - especially if you include no touch/tilt screen or tilt EVF.

 

I'm going to wait to see what the Panasonic Gx7 or Olympus OMD-EM5 replacements give us.

 

BTW it's dropped to £699 and also the GX line is discontinued or at the very least I don't think we'll see one til late next year. Considering a 12-35mm lens costs more than this camera, I would say it's quite a steal.

 

How do you shoot video in bright conditions with the LX100 with no internal ND filter and no external filter thread ??

 

 

It has a 43mm filter thread

[wobba]

BTW it's dropped to £699 and also the GX line is discontinued or at the very least I don't think we'll see one til late next year. Considering a 12-35mm lens costs more than this camera, I would say it's quite a steal.

 

 

It has a 43mm filter thread

 

 

Are you sure?  The CameraLabs review states that there's no filter thread :

 

"There's also no filter thread on the LX100, nor an optional accessory for mounting them, although there is a bayonet for the optional auto lens cap that suggests it could be possible in the future or via a third-party."

 

In looking at this high-res image, I can't see a filter thread:

 

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[neverending]

there is a filter thread

the monstrous problem or mistake of LX100 is 4k moire a killer for video amateurs

[wobba]

there is a filter thread

the monstrous problem or mistake of LX100 is 4k moire a killer for video amateurs

 

Hopefully, you're right on the first point.

 

I agree, the moire is disappointing.  The image stabilisation is also quite mediocre, based on the CameraLabs footage, which will limit the ability of this camera to be used hand-held.

[neverending]

Hopefully, you're right on the first point.

 

I agree, the moire is disappointing.  The image stabilisation is also quite mediocre, based on the CameraLabs footage, which will limit the ability of this camera to be used hand-held.

Infact moire is caused not by the stabilization but by the not 1:1 crop of sensor in 4K mode. The moire is present on IS on and IS off because affect the sensor image processing (not 1:1 but a crop and scale according to cameralabs)

 

For clean video get the GH4 or for the same money as LX100 get the FZ1000

 

Is a clear Panasonic (moire, no mic input, no CineLike styles) choice to protect the GH4 (with 1:1 crop 4K the LX100 will have better quality than GH4 + 12-35 2.8). Enormous moire that LX100 4K mode has make this camera not ideal for video

[Andrew Reid]

Can't say I am noticing any moire so far with mine.

 

Review soon.

[neverending]

Can't say I am noticing any moire so far with mine.

 

Review soon.

I hope..

The question is by looking at the "flat" sample of cameralabs. If you download the 4K source from Vimeo. The video is suffering from terrible moire that there isn't in sample of the GH4 or FZ1000 found in internet

 

However, the question remains
For example in this (official) sample there is no trace of moire ... And the video is spectacular. Completly different from cameralabs samples....

 

[animan]

Hi neverending, there doesnt seem to be any moire in that clip, you probably are seeing scaling artifacts if not watching on a 4k screen or zoomed to 100%..

[neverending]

Hi neverending, there doesnt seem to be any moire in that clip, you probably are seeing scaling artifacts if not watching on a 4k screen or zoomed to 100%..

I doenloaded both 4K from youtube the official and from vimeo the cameralabs test.

My monitor is not 4K but i see artifacts (moire + alias) only in camelalabs clips, and a 4K video from GH4 or FZ1000 original downloaded from vimeo not present artifacts in my screen

[animan]

have a look in your editing software at 100%, i think youll find the moire gone.. 

[neverending]

have a look in your editing software at 100%, i think youll find the moire gone.. 

;) hope hope

No moire and alias in camaralabs test in interactive VLC 100% zoom

[Julian]

Can't say I am noticing any moire so far with mine.

 

Review soon.

 

I haven't seen any moire either. Didn't shoot much with it though - no brick walls or anything. But plenty footage with a big depth of field and everything looks very detailed, no moire. Maybe it shows on a test chart... but I don't think that's going to be a deal breaker.

 

It sure has a 43mm filter thread. I've put a filter on it.

[Andrew Reid]

It's 4K scaling artefacts from it being scaled to a 1080p screen by the player software you're seeing Neverending.

[Cinegain]

So far I haven't come across any either. Although I didn't have that much playtime with it yet, so maybe the scenes weren't inviting enough for the moire to make an appearance. Guess we'll see about that in the next days/weeks when my schedule allows me to get out and shoot some more.

 

Didn't get around to be shooting any daytime scenes yesterday on my city trip yesterday, but I did record some quicky testfootage (natural -5 -5 -1 -5) from the hotelroom balkony, just to check out how it handles low light in terms of noise, bokeh, detail and autofocus.

 

 

 

 

Initial letdowns? The autofocus in these kind of low light conditions. Was hunting quite a bit. Then sometimes 'locked' on something that was blown out of focus. Surely you want to switch it off anyways, but for the sake of testing, not that great. Then take a look at the third frame. According quite a few interviews with Matt Frazer, like this one...

... onionring bokeh balls should from now on belong in the past due new mold milling techniques. Still looked pretty oniony to me.

 

Other than that, I thought the detail out of the LX100 in these conditions was very nice. And what noise concerned... I've been shooting this in 4K 24p and then zoomed in, so f/2.8 and 1/50th of a second. For these settings ISO1250 seemed pretty nice (lifting the blacks from being crushed, protected highlights, control noise, at the same time trying to get as close as I perceived the scene with my eyes, although now seeying it with a lot of white around it, it looks a bit dark). The noise performance at ISO1000-1250 is still pretty fine. When dropping it to ISO800 or below it performs really really well indeed. Above ISO1250 it gets a bit trickier. ISO1600-ISO2500 still look kinda okay, but I'd say clean is different. Cranking it further up to the ISO3200-ISO6400 you'll be introducing quite a lot of noise and I think that personally I will be avoiding this range altogether.

 

But like I said... this was just a quicky nighttime test, I was just playing around, so nothing conclusive really. So far really liking it though.

[neverending]

For a cost of 7-800 dollars, would highly recommend to have a video package really rich, the purchase of FZ1000.
Excellent video quality, microphone in, presence of CINE styles, adjustable luminance, HDMI monitoring . Excellent lens, slower than the LX100 but still excellent, 1 inch BSI sensor really powerful. Form factor and controls very similar to GH4

[Jacek]

Question to people who bought LX100 in Germany/Austria:

Is it multi-language? Can you change the language to Polish?

 

I'm considering to buy in abroad, couse here it appeard with 900euro price.

[sgreszcz]

Hi neverending, there doesnt seem to be any moire in that clip, you probably are seeing scaling artifacts if not watching on a 4k screen or zoomed to 100%..

 

You are right, I downloaded the 4k "flat" clip that Cameralabs uploaded, pulled it into FCPx, messed around a bit with the exposure, contrast, and saturation, and then exported it as 1080p.  

 

The exported 1080p image looks really quite good and you can't see much moire, for example, on the garage doors that looked horrible when played on Vimeo or through Quicktime when downloaded.

 

That being said, I think I'll still pass on the LX100.  I think I'll miss the tilt/touch LCD too much, and I'm hesitant about the EVF.

 

I think I'll put up with the hit and miss video output in my Olympus E-P5 as I love it for stills and the IBIS, and I'll see what Panasonic and Olympus (or even Sony) come up with next in their smaller-body ranges.