Photokina report day 1 - the Samsung NX1 (4K mirrorless camera with H.265)

[Flynn]

This camera looks ridiculously impressive. Wish they would get sample copies in the hands of prominent video bloggers like Andrew so we could see what this thing is really capable of. Interested to see if Samsung has finally made a camera that the video community can legitimately be excited about.

[Superka]

Please, Andrew, don't forget about KineMINI 4K

[griplimited]

Technology is moving so quick with new toys every year. I still remember being excited adding the newest hack on the gh2.

[john_d]

Super impressed about the camera. In camera 4K recording is phenomenal. The 4K on the Samsung Galaxy phone looks good to me, so I expect this to be just as good.

 

Not gonna lie, didn't even know Samsung made mirrorless until now. Never meet anyone that owned one either. But I can really see myself owning this. Good job Samsung, F**k you Canon!

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Something to keep in mind is the image produced by Samsung's note 3 4K phone, the image it produces is simply astonishing with its 1/3" sensor and tiny teeny lens, with astounding clarity, lack of aliasing, vivid colours and pretty damn good dynamic range! It looks better than many dedicated video cameras out there up to very high price points. If this Nx1 is coming from the same direction but with the benefits of a large sensor, it will produce some very, very high quality images.

[sandro]

Something to keep in mind is the image produced by Samsung's note 3 4K phone, the image it produces is simply astonishing with its 1/3" sensor and tiny teeny lens, with astounding clarity, lack of aliasing, vivid colours and pretty damn good dynamic range! It looks better than many dedicated video cameras out there up to very high price points. If this Nx1 is coming from the same direction but with the benefits of a large sensor, it will produce some very, very high quality images.

 I do hope so!

[dukerem]

I tested this camera at photokina. The AF-c and tracking was very poor, much worse than on an average DSLR. The high Iso iq also seems terrible:

 

http://www.optyczne.pl/7466-news-Samsung_NX1_i_NX_50-150_mm_f_2.8_S_ED_OIS_-_pierwsze_zdj%C4%99cia.html

[Brellivids]

The Samsung lens tests that are currently available at DXOmark dont impress me. I't s good to point out that only a few have been tested so far. For Instance the 85mm that should allways be the best of the best.. seems to have chromatic aberration problems.

 

It might be best to go the Samyang Route.

[Brellivids]

The awesome tracking capabilities of the Samsung NX camera has seem to be similiar what the Samsung's robotic weapon platforms have.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2756847/Who-goes-Samsung-reveals-robot-sentry-set-eye-North-Korea.html ( check the video on the article and you understand what I'm talking about)

 

According to the videos name those sentries can kill a man from 2 miles away. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

 

I found the vid.

[Quirky]

@Andrew So, did you get to do a proper interview with the Samsung people? Did they promise to send you a demo unit, hopefully equipped with the final firmware? A new blog post coming soon?

 

Got to admit this new release has made me slightly Samsung-curious, if not quite a fan yet. It would be nice to have a third real contender into the bipolar battle between Sony and Panasonic. That would make the mainstream/prosumer market a bit more colourful. Hopefully the new NX1 will be more than just a nice try, and hopefully they'll keep the right kind of momentum up with their next models.

[sandro]

I tested this camera at photokina. The AF-c and tracking was very poor, much worse than on an average DSLR. The high Iso iq also seems terrible:

 

http://www.optyczne.pl/7466-news-Samsung_NX1_i_NX_50-150_mm_f_2.8_S_ED_OIS_-_pierwsze_zdj%C4%99cia.html

 

The pictures look AWFUL :( Worse than a digital compact camera with a smaller sensor. The hair is extremely muddy, even at ISO200! It may the lens but to me it looks like an internal processing thing.

Also at high ISO you start to see those weird halos seen in the video sample, either a weird sharpening or noise removal. Whatever it is I'm not liking it.

[pietz]

H.264 supports 10Bit as well and yet we dont see it around. Just because its compatible with the Codec doesnt mean companies will actually use it. just saying.

 

And some people seem to forget about the fact that H.265 is not much more efficient than H.264. But for this sentence to be true, you need to understand what efficiency means. its not only the final filesize, but also the computing power it takes to encode and decode the video.

 

H.265 simply opens many doors of compressing files much more for the cost of much higher computing power. A camera like the NX1 wont have "that" computing power to take the real advantage of H.265. i personally would guess their 80mbit/s H.265 video to be around the same as the GH4's 100mbit/s H.264. You also need to understand that H.264 isnt all the same, even when using the same encoder. You can choose between different presets that differ in encoding speed and file size results. Cameras need at least the speed of doing the conversion in realtime, so when you put a faster processor in a new camera you can make the encoding of the video look better by using a slower preset. An H.264 camera from 8 years ago will be deliver a lot less quality at the same bitrate as a camera from today. people seem to forget this and just hype H.265.

 

It will be pretty awesome but big computers are just getting the power it takes to edit H.265. for cameras it will take another year to actually benefit from it.

[Andrew Reid]

The pictures look AWFUL :( Worse than a digital compact camera with a smaller sensor. The hair is extremely muddy, even at ISO200! It may the lens but to me it looks like an internal processing thing.

Also at high ISO you start to see those weird halos seen in the video sample, either a weird sharpening or noise removal. Whatever it is I'm not liking it.

 

Given the sensor size and megapixel count are not exactly like the A7S, the ISO 3200 sample is ok and on par with a Red Epic.

 

The noise reduction setting in-camera is crazy high which makes it hard to judge sharpness from these hastily shot JPEGs before they glued the card door up to stop exactly the kind of post you just made slamming the camera based on a bad test!!

 

The guy who shot these didn't even get the model's head in focus and you are claiming her hair looks soft... no wonder.

[kadajawi]

@pietz: 10 bit h264 does exist... in the Anime fansub world it has been used for the past 3 years, and Sony's XAVC does support 10 bit, and AFAIK some of their cameras do use it. XAVC is h264, though with a rather sophisticated profile that is quite efficient.

 

I agree that h264 has a ton of potential, but requires a lot of processing power to utilize it. It's the same with h265, just that the potential is even higher. How good the encoder in the NX-1 is remains to be seen, of course, but there's potential.

 

In any case I think we're much more likely to see proper hardware decoding support for 10 bit h265 than for 10 bit h264...

[JohnVid]

The official video looks cool, made me wonder if it was  a marketing video made with something else,

but would be nice to know more about how it was filmed, ie what lens, kit or other?

[Quirky]

The official video looks cool, made me wonder if it was  a marketing video made with something else,

but would be nice to know more about how it was filmed, ie what lens, kit or other?

 

Well, with the tragic Nokia video blooper still clear in everyone's mind, one would think they did actually use the camera they claim they did. Even though I agree that I wouldn't be surprised if the production team used whatever cameras they had on the set, and not just the subject matter.

 

I agree that knowing the metadata would be interesting but then again, the footage was quite obviously directed and shot by a team and a DP who know their stuff. Any Samsung boffin with the NX1 or any other camera in his hand wouldn't have accomplished the same. Good looking footage takes more than just a fancy camera.

 

These marketing demos are always larger than life, so to speak. But the fact remains that along with the GH4, the NX1 is still the most cost-effective way to get started with (HDSLR-style) 4K. Whatever Canikon is up to, as suggested by the rumours, is likely to cost much more, as does the A7s. 

[sandro]

I asked that on YT but they never answered.

[quobetah]

"JK: Actually, we just didn't implement that functionality, but the DRIMe V and the sensor could do it. When the guys in R&D were working on the Samsung Auto Shot feature, they recorded live 28 megapixel, 240 fps "video" to help with the debugging. We didn't see there being an application for that, at least for very, very few people."

 

WOW!! 7K AT 240P!!! And they thought no one would like that!!!?? Can we all please send a massive email request to Samsung to unlock even just 4K at 240p!! Or even just 1080p!! This NX1 DrimE V processor and BSI sensor is baaad azzzzz. 

 

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/09/27/photokina-interview-samsung-nx1-redefine-pro-performance-quantum-leap-tech

"

 

 

[JamesBooba]

There is an interesting interview with Samsung´s Marketing Manager Jay Kelbley ...

 

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/09/27/photokina-interview-samsung-nx1-redefine-pro-performance-quantum-leap-tech

[Flynn]

The current specs are very impressive but it sounds like this camera has a ton of untapped potential. Really hoping there are no serious issues with it and Samsung gets it into the hands of prominent video sites.