Lets talk Cinelux and Ultra Stars!

[richg101]

I thought I'd start a topic for talk specifically relating to use of these once hopeless oversized lumps of very high performance glass.  Now the upcoming FM unit pricing is announced (which appears to have been designed specifically for use with this type of anamorphic) maybe discussion can be had regarding each of the variants of the gold and red projector anamorphics..

 

so lets talk:-

thoughts and ideas

lens tests

queries

flaring character

sharpness

 

as well as taking lens paring relating to the 'look' and compatibility on certain size sensors.

 

I've been testing a cinelux this evening on my friday night off so will share some stuff shortly.  

 

 

[artiswar]

All three were Cinelux WA, Canon 50mm 1.8, and a GH2.

Very sharp, very crisp and defined flares.

No longer own this and kind regret getting rid of it. Own a version 2 Hypergonar now, which in comparison has much less crisp but very long flares. I would say the Cinelux is more clinical and the Hypergonar more filmic and organic. 

[richg101]

[JohnVid]

Does the CiniLux produce flares?

I can see a hint of a flare, but in the roundabout shot what I thought was a linear flare is actually a white line on the building.

Sight looks nice footage, but cuts away before seeing a linear flare.

Do you have any Bokeh shots, I recently looked at the Cooke Anamorphic Video's and didnt see much by way of Linear flare.

[richg101]

 

 

 

streak flares are almost non existent unless in a dark room with a bright light shining straight at the lens.  however it's more about the bokeh that these lenses do well on - as well as their sharpness.  

This shot shows the bokeh: wide open on the noritar 80mm f2 so sharpness is limited by the taking lens which is rather smooth at f2.  

 

 

also, the cinelux is very hard to collimate to the taking lens quickly meaning a slight offset results in purple fringing - seen here.  When configuring the two lenses to integrate with this new FM module it'll be easy to spend a lot of time refining the ideal sweet spot of the cinelux and then only the taking lens will need to be adjusted as and when it might be changed.

[richg101]

Remember that bokeh is more a direct result of the taking lens.  The anamorphot simply deforms the original bokeh into either 1.33x 1.5x 1.75x or 2x .  

 

The beautiful bokeh seen here is largely down to the noritar - it's known amongst a select few as one of the greatest lenses for bokeh ever (being a simple double gauss design and for medium format the bokeh is very smooth and uniform accross the frame when used on a full frame sensor.  The 2x squeeze only serves to add to the beauty!

[JohnVid]

Ah, which kind of explains why the bokeh is oval, as its not getting squeezed while shooting, but then stretched later, except  I would have expected that to produce ovals at 90 degrees to what I commonly see? I had been wondering why people would want oval Bokeh when round looks so good, I like hexagons & octogons too, it's a long time since I played with the cokin masks I used to have, wasn't until recently I thought of sticking them behind the lens inside an adapter/lens mount, but I suppose they may have better results at the distance of the iris. But I also wondered if the focus modules would also introduce additional flares which would then be squeezed & stretched, & added to the taking lens flares.

[andy lee]

Schneiders are superb , the sharpest anamorphics out there ! My favourite lenses ....I was banging on about these years ago ! they are that good . I like to use the Pentax 40mm f2.8 behind mine and Carl Zeiss 35mm Flektogon both work nicely .

 

the Iscos are also very good you can fit the Olympus x0.7  wide angle adapter on the front of the isco very nicely

 

here is my BlackMagic Isco rig

 

http://www.eoshd.com/comments/gallery/image/180-tecnoir-blackmagic-anamorphic-cinema-rig-lores/

 

 

ps I shoot outside at night at 2500k as this makes mine flare more blue under lights at night , nicer bluer streaks

[JohnVid]

I have an old  Sony .07 and a Canon wide adapter, would be interesting to try them, but wonder how it all works out when doing the stretching back to desired aspect. Do you get much vignetting with that setup Andy,  i'll have to dig a little deeper to see what the footage your getting out of it is like(especially on the BMC) obviously the least amount of vign' is what to aim for, but wonder if the longer the focal length on the taking lens the less of the stretch effect you would see?

[richg101]

Did a bit of dog schidting to the cinelux...

 

 

[valid]

Looks good! never considered these gold lumps before :P Am I right that as well as sharpness, the CA is much better controlled on these 35mm projector lenses? Certainly looks that way in the test footage

[richg101]

Looks good! never considered these gold lumps before :P Am I right that as well as sharpness, the CA is much better controlled on these 35mm projector lenses? Certainly looks that way in the test footage

 

yes.  they are achromatically corrected optics - made using some very expensive glass.  it is only right at the edges on full frame that these lenses really show any signs of struggling - since they were never designed for such large imaging areas.  the full frame mode on the a7s is 36mm wide.  4 perf 35mm film projection is only around 22mm wide.  so i am running this lens on a imaging area 14mm wider than optimal.  

 

i have only started playing with such things since there has been a cost effective add on focus system announced.  they're still cumbersome, but at least their optical quality can now be used with less hassle.

[valid]

I'm using a BMCC, so hopefully its crop factor will help me stick to the sweet spot then ;-)

 

How wide can you go with the taking lens on an A7s?

[yannis.zach]

My flare test with the Schneider:

[ken]

I don't think there is a major optics difference between Schneider and ISCO.  But Schneider is difficult to focus, not sure how your guys doing?  Shoot infinity only?

[Matthias Malleši�]

Prosumer cam test:

[Cosimo murgolo]

I 've just won mine today, I am really excited to mount it on the FM with my 5D.

I hope I didn't get a crappy one. paid 106 euro

[JohnVid]

Pity the price of these is starting to go out of my ball park for what I would pay for a normal lens, will have to be on ebay all the time and I hate ebay its not good for my blood pressure.

They look nice & not too large/heavy, and a handy addition to the tool bag, but finding the perfect combination of taking lens & anamorphic, could be an expensive  road to go down, especially if you need some sort realtime of unsqueezing monitor to see what you are doing properly, would like to see the results from a standard Helios, and a few other low price solutions.

 

I have a few OM lenses that might do the Job, but I'm not sure the flares on any of them are anything special.

The most expensive lens I have, only cost me £250(10-22mm efs)  the thought of paying more than that and inheriting a load of problems & addition work, scares me off, many of the results I see remind me of the first  footage that used to come out of 35mm adapters,  perhaps its just the exagerated shallow DOF which I thought I wanted, but discovered it can also make things tricky( need a better lens for that) . I'm not really setup to use the DSLR for filming seriously, I find it a right PIA, the need to rig the thing up like a frankenbeast in order to get decent results is hopefully coming to an end as new IS and other features hit the market.

[richg101]

I 've just won mine today, I am really excited to mount it on the FM with my 5D.

I hope I didn't get a crappy one. paid 106 euro

 

this is the one I have.  you got a good price too!  

[Cosimo murgolo]

@ richg101

 

I hope you don't mind me asking you some questions in the future if I need some help.

thank you very much indeed, I feel much better now.

Great!!