Canon EOS-R8, EOS-R50 And New Lenses Announced

[Kisaha]

2 hours ago, Django said:

Yeah I know, I just sold my R6 last month to a Brazilian who had travelled to Europe just to shop. He explained the whole import situation to me. Not limited to cameras too if I understood him correctly.

 

Anyways, I'm getting an FX30 for my pro video needs. a bit more expensive than R7 but a lot better video options and codecs. I actually considered the R7 for a second but lack of RF-S glass is a no go for me. Can't invest in a crop sensor with no native glass support. And with third party RF lenses banned it's even less tempting to go that route.

Might still grab an R8 for FF needs (mainly stills) as I'm still invested in Canon system although a used R6 will cost you the same and might still be a better purchase considering you get IBIS & full battery. Yes the camera overheats but only on certain long recording conditions.

Traitor! The lens situation is really bad with RF-S..it wasn't even good with EF-S, I recently wrote how much better was the NX system for lenses and especially me..

There is a rumor about a videocentric R7 though..

[Django]

23 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Traitor! The lens situation is really bad with RF-S..it wasn't even good with EF-S, I recently wrote how much better was the NX system for lenses and especially me..

There is a rumor about a videocentric R7 though..

Lol.. like I said I'm not leaving Canon, just not rushing towards any purchase atm. 

I'm already on Sony FS7 for most pro work so its really only logical to get the FX30. My speed booster, accessories & lenses will carry over.

That said I completely forgot about the R7C rumour! That could actually be a pretty cool camera if priced like the FX30.

[Kisaha]

15 minutes ago, Django said:

Lol.. like I said I'm not leaving Canon, just not rushing towards any purchase atm. 

I'm already on Sony FS7 for most pro work so its really only logical to get the FX30. My speed booster, accessories & lenses will carry over.

That said I completely forgot about the R7C rumour! That could actually be a pretty cool camera if priced like the FX30.

I am joking ofcourse! Whatever works, and whatever brings the dough!

Sony completely dominated the market with the FS7 and now there are a lot of FX cameras replacing the FS ones..we even did a feature film with one of the expensive FX ones last year and the camera performed as expected (FS7 had issues sporadically with overheating and/or media, I am talking ofcourse about very hard core TV productions, always on for 10-12 hours and cameras that have worked like these for years and years..).

The lens situation is really one to consider, I am too very disappointed with the close system Canon tries to impose to us, especially with the non existent RF-S system, and the lackluster and extremely expensive RF one..Even Tamron seems to offer some great glass of recently that I would like to be able to buy.

The response to that is the RF 24-50mm and 4.5-6.3f??

Panasonid did the very interesting 20-60mm with 3.5-5.6f, I can work with that..4-5.6f are my usual apertures (old school filmography!), and 20 is better than 24mm (going wider on a zoom is always a good thing!) and 60mm is better for portraiture that 50mm, slightly but still it costs nothing on the final price of the lens.

The Tamron 20-40mm 2.8f interests me a lot also..you are loosing the high end for portraiture but you are gaining a nice 2.8f..

Anyway, I am fine for now with my EF and the RF selection, but still I am using my NX cameras because of some unique lenses, and some m43 too..it isn't ideal, not been able to go full on on a system, and I think maybe E is the only way to go right now..

Increrible if you think about it..when mirrorless started, the Sony had serious limits on their lenses line up, and right now it is their biggest advantage! Way to go Sony..

They were also very lucky with Canon sleeping for a good part of the previous decade and Samsung's old boss died before seeing his pet project become part of the big 3, as he wished..

[Django]

Yeah I can't say I'm exactly thrilled about going Sony either. I come from photography and have always gravitated towards historic camera companies: CaNikon, Fuji, Leica. There is something a little soulless about Sony, Panasonic & Samsung (RIP) in my opinion. They focus hardcore on specs but not so much the art form. That is what separates "video" from "cinema" I guess. I'm talking in terms of design, philosophy, color science, DCI options etc. 

But yeah Sony dominates the whole broadcast, production, post segments so almost no choice if you wanna play nice with them.

[newfoundmass]

7 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Increrible if you think about it..when mirrorless started, the Sony had serious limits on their lenses line up, and right now it is their biggest advantage! Way to go Sony..

They really were smart to open up e-mount to anyone that was willing to make lenses for it. I think it had a huge impact on the growth of the system. That the third party options were also excellent quality didn't hurt either! 

[So Ros]

6 hours ago, Django said:

CaNikon, Fuji, Leica. There is something a little soulless about Sony, Panasonic & Samsung (RIP) in my opinion. They focus hardcore on specs but not so much the art form. That is what separates "video" from "cinema" I guess. I'm talking in terms of design, philosophy, color science, DCI options etc. 

I respect your opinion but I totally disagree.

Have you seen films shot with Panasonic Varicam or Sony Venice (doesn’t look soulless to me) or are we talking about mirrorless cameras

Whats soulless to you ? can you show some examples because alot of things are subjective like Colour science, Design, cinematography etc.  

Sony and Panasonic are hardcore focused on specs and so is canon, Fuji and Leica.. so ?. Also what philosophies does Fuji, Canon and Leica have that Sony and Panasonic does not.  Is it because of Sony sensors in which Fuji and Leica uses.

Don’t want to sound harsh, just trying to understand.  I don’t see anything special about Canon, Fuji and Leica.  It’s all so subjective anyways.

[Django]

8 minutes ago, So Ros said:

I respect your opinion but I totally disagree.

Have you seen films shot with Panasonic Varicam or Sony Venice (doesn’t look soulless to me) or are we talking about mirrorless cameras

Whats soulless to you ? can you show some examples because alot of things are subjective like Colour science, Design, cinematography etc.  

Sony and Panasonic are hardcore focused on specs and so is canon, Fuji and Leica.. so ?. Also what philosophies does Fuji, Canon and Leica have that Sony and Panasonic does not.  Is it because of Sony sensors in which Fuji and Leica uses.

Don’t want to sound harsh, just trying to understand.  I don’t see anything special about Canon, Fuji and Leica.  It’s all so subjective anyways.

CaNikon, Fuji & Leica have a long history in camera/lens making, we're talking 80 to +100 years. This reflects till today in their cameras. Fuji can use a Sony lens but has a completely different processing, the X line isn't even Bayer but X-Trans. This doesn't stop at the sensor level, a camera is way more than a sensor. Fuji has film simulations and the X line was based on retro camera dial ergonomics.  

Sony & Panasonic come from a consumer electronics background.. and it shows. They are totally utilitarian tools. That's the soullessness I'm talking about. 

And yes I'm talking about the mirrorless line from a hybrid camera standpoint. High-end cinema cams is a whole different ballgame where Sony & Panny are competing with ARRI/RED. 

[Django]

42 minutes ago, Django said:

Fuji can use a Sony lens but has a completely different processing

Sony sensor not lens!

Also just to be clear, I am not claiming that Sony/Panny cameras = soulless images. The camera's DP and post/grade will be the determining factors. Stick some nice vintage glass to any sensor and it will increase the mojo.

[newfoundmass]

12 minutes ago, Django said:

Also just to be clear, I am not claiming that Sony/Panny cameras = soulless images.

You kinda did... 😉

8 hours ago, Django said:

There is something a little soulless about Sony, Panasonic & Samsung (RIP) in my opinion. They focus hardcore on specs but not so much the art form. That is what separates "video" from "cinema" I guess. I'm talking in terms of design, philosophy, color science, DCI options etc. 

I've been labeled a Panasonic fanboy on here recently, so this will probably come as no shock, but I think Panasonic has had the most filmic image out of the major camera manufacturers since the S series was released. Even in the color department, where I always preferred Canon, I think they've surpassed them in a lot of ways. Everyone else has moved toward more pleasing colors while retaining color accuracy, while Canon still have nice colors that aren't very accurate. That was okay when everyone lagged behind overall, but not so much anymore.

[Django]

2 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

You kinda did... 😉

No what I said was concerning the camera manufacturers. Content is created by creators. There is a big nuance there to understand. I stand by my words that Sony/Panny aren't photography/lens companies at heart. And it still shows. Go look at a big Panasonic trade show event .. 98% will be about home entertainment. Lumix cameras are a fraction of their core business..

2 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I've been labeled a Panasonic fanboy on here recently, so this will probably come as no shock, but I think Panasonic has had the most filmic image out of the major camera manufacturers since the S series was released. Even in the color department, where I always preferred Canon, I think they've surpassed them in a lot of ways. Everyone else has moved toward more pleasing colors while retaining color accuracy, while Canon still have nice colors that aren't very accurate. That was okay when everyone lagged behind overall, but not so much anymore.

You're entitled your opinion but I find Lumix is among the worst. GH series was way too over-sharp with fake V-Log L up to GH5. Now we're seeing way too much reds on S5ii that give nasty blotchy skin tones and you've got heavy NR issues too.

[newfoundmass]

1 hour ago, Django said:

No what I said was concerning the camera manufacturers. Content is created by creators. There is a big nuance there to understand. I stand by my words that Sony/Panny aren't photography/lens companies at heart. And it still shows. Go look at a big Panasonic trade show event .. 98% will be about home entertainment. Lumix cameras are a fraction of their core business..

You're entitled your opinion but I find Lumix is among the worst. GH series was way too over-sharp with fake V-Log L up to GH5. Now we're seeing way too much reds on S5ii that give nasty blotchy skin tones and you've got heavy NR issues too.

You really didn't differentiate, you heavily implied that Panasonic and Sony are in the "video" category while the others are in the "cinema" category. You then mentioned things related to the image they produce, such as color science, to explain why. Honestly the entire statement didn't make sense, and you seemed to be lumping the criticism people level at Sony in with Panasonic. What about Pannyboy's philosophy of adding advanced cinema/video features to even their entry level cameras makes them inferior, our soulless, to those other companies? And what DCI options is Pannyboy missing compared to them? Didn't Pannyboy literally introduce DCI to the mirrorless world?

What does Sony and Panasonic being diversified businesses have to do with being "soulless?" The diversity, and the extra income streams, is what has made their imaging divisions possible. 

Re: Panasonic's image. As I said, "I think Panasonic has had the most filmic image out of the major camera manufacturers since the S series was released." The issues with the S5ii, which will eventually get fixed with a firmware update, don't detract from the near universal praise the S series cameras have gotten for the images they produce. You mention the GH5, which is a six-year-old camera: what relevance is that to what I said? And what were any of those companies producing six years ago that came anywhere close to offering the value and image of the GH5 when it came to video? 

Almost every other company has caught up to Canon when it comes to colors, and most produce overall a better or just as good image (and have for years.) The days of Canon eating everyone's lunch when it comes to color are over.

 

[Django]

7 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

You really didn't differentiate, you heavily implied that Panasonic and Sony are in the "video" category while the others are in the "cinema" category. You then mentioned things related to the image they produce, such as color science, to explain why. Honestly the entire statement didn't make sense, and you seemed to be lumping the criticism people level at Sony in with Panasonic. What about Pannyboy's philosophy of adding advanced cinema/video features to even their entry level cameras makes them inferior, our soulless, to those other companies? And what DCI options is Pannyboy missing compared to them? Didn't Pannyboy literally introduce DCI to the mirrorless world?

No you are twisting my words. I didn't imply they were in the cinema category, I stated the "others" are in the photography/lens business for almost a century. And I am saying this as a photographer first, videographer/filmmaker second. This obviously has an impact on video/film side as well but that wasn't my main point at all.

Adding "advanced cinema/video" features doesn't make you less soulless. Fuji X top dials, aperture rings on lenses & film simulations is what I'm talking about. CS, Log & RAW video are equally important and demand specific know-how to be well implemented, not just listed on a spec sheet.

7 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

What does Sony and Panasonic being diversified businesses have to do with being "soulless?" The diversity, and the extra income streams, is what has made their imaging divisions possible. 

They treat imaging like they do TVs. Specs, specs, specs. Its all product. No artistic philosophy, community, service.

Canon for example offer pro cinema services at their Burbank facility (and equivalents around the world):

https://theasc.com/articles/opening-the-canon-burbank-facility

Fuji just had FujiFilm Day at the ASC Clubhouse:

There is a real tangible long standing culture around lenses and pro imaging.

7 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Re: Panasonic's image. As I said, "I think Panasonic has had the most filmic image out of the major camera manufacturers since the S series was released." The issues with the S5ii, which will eventually get fixed with a firmware update, don't detract from the near universal praise the S series cameras have gotten for the images they produce. You mention the GH5, which is a six-year-old camera: what relevance is that to what I said? And what were any of those companies producing six years ago that came anywhere close to offering the value and image of the GH5 when it came to video? 

 

You're just further proving my point. You're saying Panasonic is just catching up. I'm saying CaNikon/Fuji have been at it for almost a century. Six years ago, Canon had its entire Cinema line available. 1DC brought 4K to the hybrid market in 2012. That's eleven years ago! Canon started the FF revolution. First 8K mirrorless camera in 2020. First RAW internal hybrid. Etc.

7 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Almost every other company has caught up to Canon when it comes to colors, and most produce overall a better or just as good image (and have for years.) The days of Canon eating everyone's lunch when it comes to color are over.

 

Simply not true:

 

[PannySVHS]

3 hours ago, Django said:

I'm saying CaNikon/Fuji have been at it for almost a century. Six years ago, Canon had its entire Cinema line available. 1DC brought 4K to the hybrid market in 2012. That's eleven years ago! Canon started the FF revolution. First 8K mirrorless camera in 2020. First RAW internal hybrid. Etc.

Panny has been in the video, camera and broadcast market for very long. Canon had no broadcast cameras for decades. 🙂

2014, Panny started the 4K revolution. GH2 had lotta charisma, Lumix still has to me. Sometimes our assumptions and conclusions become a bit shaky after series of posts and replies.  @FHDcrew posted a spiffy video shot with Nikon z6 to external prores. Looking better than 99% of youtube stuff. Some of the best looking stuff on this forum regarding colour and overall craft of the finished video. Solid!

[Django]

57 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Panny has been in the video, camera and broadcast market for very long. Canon had no broadcast cameras for decades. 🙂

2014, Panny started the 4K revolution. GH2 had lotta charisma, Lumix still has to me. Sometimes our assumptions and conclusions become a bit shaky after series of posts and replies.  @FHDcrew posted a spiffy video shot with Nikon z6 to external prores. Looking better than 99% of youtube stuff. Some of the best looking stuff on this forum regarding colour and overall craft of the finished video. Solid!

Broadcast cameras maybe not, but broadcast lenses they've done for over +60 years and the real mojo when it comes to video/film is in the lenses in my opinion (camera bodies and technology evolves every 6 months..):

GH series brought affordability to the market.. well initially at least!

[mkabi]

On 2/19/2023 at 5:41 AM, PannySVHS said:

2014, Panny started the 4K revolution. 

*cough* Canon 1dc *cough* released in 2012 *cough*

[mkabi]

5 minutes ago, mkabi said:

*cough* Canon 1dc *cough* released in 2012 *cough*

Sorry - Red One - released in 2007 is really the first... so, technically Red should be thanked for the 4K revolution. If we are talking about affordability... sure lets bring Panasonic in the picture... but it has to be in the same space as Chinese knock offs (I'm sorry if I'm triggering some people - but the truth hurts) and we all know Chinese knock offs are cheap.

[PannySVHS]

Well, gh4 started a wave, first affordable 4k cam with good and slim codecs plus pro features in a pro body. Feels more solid than a Gh5 in my hand. Pro feel like my S1. Anyway. Love Canon too and my Sony Fs700 and PMW F3. Got a 5d2 and eos m used for hard to beat prices. Would love sell my S1 and snap myself a S1H thanks to AND despite posts on this forum. 🙂

[FHDcrew]

On 2/19/2023 at 5:41 AM, PannySVHS said:

Panny has been in the video, camera and broadcast market for very long. Canon had no broadcast cameras for decades. 🙂

2014, Panny started the 4K revolution. GH2 had lotta charisma, Lumix still has to me. Sometimes our assumptions and conclusions become a bit shaky after series of posts and replies.  @FHDcrew posted a spiffy video shot with Nikon z6 to external prores. Looking better than 99% of youtube stuff. Some of the best looking stuff on this forum regarding colour and overall craft of the finished video. Solid!

This made my day man!  Thanks so much! I feel like I’ve grown a lot mainly in terms of lighting over the past while, and I also am always really satisfied with the image the Z6 spits out!  Such a great budget cam. 

[Kubrickian]

People from the marketing departments of these companies must read these threads and start furiously pleasuring themselves. 

[PannySVHS]

Ok, I really love the image coming from the C500 MKII. Forum members stated that the Log profiles on the Canon Hybrids are not up to the quality of the C300 MK2. Regardless the sometimes mushy codec of the C300II in low light, i really love how the camera responds in grading. C500 MKII is a dream to work with in color grading. So how doe the R5,6,8 full frame cameras compare to that when it comes to the pracitcalities of color grading?

@FHDcrew Highly deserved! 🙂