Canon EOS-R8, EOS-R50 And New Lenses Announced

[Kisaha]

Ofcourse, if you remember back then I was a huge NX sympathizer, and what happened to all that tech?!

Still have a full wardrobe of NX stuff I never use. Sales are an indication of company health and in our world money makes the world go round (not that I agree with that..).

All in all, it is a very good release in my opinion. It does have most of the things that matter for most people, except maybe IBIS, which is a given these days, but if we talk absolutely money, this is the best cheap FF camera. Do you remember the first silly RF ones?!

I have some of the cheap RF primes and lots of EF ones, do not underestimate the power of the EF stock around the planet!

[Django]

5 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

I have some of the cheap RF primes and lots of EF ones, do not underestimate the power of the EF stock around the planet!

Agreed, EF L glass has never been cheaper and is still great. I also have some RF STM primes and they're cheap and compact, have IS and macro. It is a bummer no more third party lenses from Sigma and such though..

[Andrew Reid]

The Fp has absolutely no competition when it comes to size and the ergonomics are well thought out. Build quality is very solid. It feels and looks like a professional tool.

Can you really say the back of the R8 looks anything like a near $2000 tool in 2023?

Looks like the controls you'd find on a $200 compact.

4K/60p 15ms rolling shutter with good AF does not a great film make.

It will not make you into Spielberg.

Taken as an all-round package it just isn't very exciting as, say the X-H2 is.

The X-H2 is a proper pro and enthusiast camera with cutting edge specs.

This is an upgrade for all those Instagram click weasels still holding onto the their entry level DSLRs.

[Andrew Reid]

7 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Ofcourse, if you remember back then I was a huge NX sympathizer, and what happened to all that tech?!

Still have a full wardrobe of NX stuff I never use. Sales are an indication of company health and in our world money makes the world go round (not that I agree with that..)

Sales make no difference to your use of the camera, unless in the case of the NX it gets discontinued of course, but that's rare.

You shouldn't concern yourself with what other people are buying in large numbers!

Just pick what's right for you.

Actually it is an advantage to choose something different to the masses as you then have a tool and image that stands out.

NX1 still stands up well today but Samsung had bigger fish to fry with their smartphone cameras. They felt the mirrorless camera market just wasn't big enough, taken as a whole, not enough growth potential compared to smartphones. I have to say they were right.

It is a bit like Exxonmobil deciding to quit gasoline and going into olive oil instead.

7 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

but if we talk absolutely money, this is the best cheap FF camera.

It isn't at all though is it.

It doesn't have IBIS. It has pound shop ergonomics. It probably won't even let you shoot video in the PSAM modes like R6.

It has a tiny battery and silly single card slot you can't get at when it's rigged up or on a tripod!

The EVF is probably the size of a pinhead and the codec bitrates are probably crippled with mud.

Add to that the not inconsiderable price difference between £1699 + £1699 again for a lens, and compare that to a beautiful vintage Contax Zeiss on a second hand Panasonic S1 for £1000, and you must really have to prioritise autofocus over literally everything else artistic to get an R8 instead!

7 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

I have some of the cheap RF primes and lots of EF ones, do not underestimate the power of the EF stock around the planet!

EF is on the way out now, it's been a good run.

I can use my Sigma E-mount lenses on both Sony and Nikon cameras.

Sony A1 and Nikon Z9 way to go for me.

Absolutely zero appeal in the R8 even as a curiosity or a second (20th?) body.

Whereas X-H2 gives me 8K ProRes!

[Django]

Yeah the R8 hardware isn't crazy but remember the R6 had the 1DX3 sensor and R6ii improved on it and this is what you get inside R8. I still find it pretty crazy you get one of Canons flagship sensors inside a $1500 camera. They didn't gimp it video spec wise either giving it face only detect, a feature not even present in the R5.. 

[MrSMW]

Still waiting for my S5ii to turn up replacing my original S5…

Otherwise, nope.

[ntblowz]

52 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

It probably won't even let you shoot video in the PSAM modes like R6.

 

If u look at the top it have photo and video mode switch just like R7/R6ii, so this is way better than R6 who can't even have custom c1/c2 mode for video.

[PannySVHS]

We will see, if CLog 3 on the R8 looks anything like Clog3 on the now old C300MKII, which in Cine 4K has an impressive image, UHD, 2K, HD not so much due to mushy codec in lowlight.

Colours and gradeablility of the C300MKII still beats an S1H imho in natural light. Lit sets is something the lowlight monsters of the S series really shine though. They don´t need much of it, but without it the mostly look dull.

Anyway, so far, Canon users on this forum have seemed not to be in love with the late 10bit Canon hybrids, except the R5 for its RAW image.

[Andrew Reid]

59 minutes ago, Django said:

Yeah the R8 hardware isn't crazy but remember the R6 had the 1DX3 sensor and R6ii improved on it and this is what you get inside R8. I still find it pretty crazy you get one of Canons flagship sensors inside a $1500 camera. They didn't gimp it video spec wise either giving it face only detect, a feature not even present in the R5.. 

Yes but the R6 image vs 1DX3 there is no comparison. 1D X Mark III just stomps all over it. Especially with the internal 5.5K RAW.

Do we actually know if the R6 II and R8 are the same image quality wise just because they have a similar sensor?

There's a lot more to it than that.

It's not one of Canon's flagship sensors.

That would be R3 and R5 sensors.

The R6 II sensor is a mid-range chip, and only just catching up with the Sony A7 III sensor from 2018!

[Andrew Reid]

22 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

If u look at the top it have photo and video mode switch just like R7/R6ii, so this is way better than R6 who can't even have custom c1/c2 mode for video.

So a bit better than shit then.

Thumbs up!

[Ty Harper]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

EF is on the way out now, it's been a good run.

True, but not for a while bcuz practically speaking, unless you're a new shooter making your first foray into buying glass, what are the actual advantages of buying into that system now? Especially with all these Canon adapters that essentially give the EF very practical advantages over the RF line.

[newfoundmass]

I think people confuse a low price with "being a good value." To me, the only thing that really impresses me is the uncropped 4k60p. But if you want any stabilization in that mode won't it crop into the sensor anyway? Not as drastic as an APSC crop you'd get on other cameras, but a crop nonetheless.

[Andrew Reid]

47 minutes ago, Ty Harper said:

True, but not for a while bcuz practically speaking, unless you're a new shooter making your first foray into buying glass, what are the actual advantages of buying into that system now? Especially with all these Canon adapters that essentially give the EF very practical advantages over the RF line.

Well, EF on E-mount is good. On L-mount it didn't make sense until they sorted out phase-detect AF with the S5 II, now it does. On Nikon Z the Finger EF adapter works great. On Fuji the same but all the good EF lenses are designed for full frame and there are better, smaller, cheaper choices for APS-C.

I really think the days of EF are numbered now there's so much mirrorless glass.

It's just that RF is a very closed mount, no Sigma, no Tamron, you are stuck with what Canon says and does. For example on the EOS R3, even at that level it is crippled with non Canon-branded lenses. The IBIS stops working properly.

So if I were to commit to a mirrorless mount it would be Sony E, followed by L-mount.

Sony E I can use on Nikon Z as well.

I found myself using my Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 E-mount lens so much more than the Canon EF 24-70mm F2.8 recently.

It's just better.

[BTM_Pix]

2 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

It's just that RF is a very closed mount

One which they seemed determined to keep tightly closed with the cease and desist order to Viltrox.

Wonder whether the two new cameras will be the first ones to lock out 3rd party adapters.

 

[Ty Harper]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I found myself using my Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 E-mount lens so much more than the Canon EF 24-70mm F2.8 recently.

Yep, just picked up the Sigma 24-70mm over the Canon as well for my R5C. 

[herein2020]

9 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

This camera illustrates the significant difference between Canon and everyone else. Even when putting out a compelling package, and for some folks this is a compelling package, they can't help themselves from holding back something significant like IBIS. Meanwhile, others are putting everything they can into even their entry level options. To me this feels like a stop gap more than anything. It's not compelling enough for most serious users, but might provide an upgrade path for RP or R users who might be eying the exit as other companies offer better value and those cameras continue to become long in the tooth.

I am sure they will sell loads of these but to me its hard to tell who will buy this. The absolute only feature that I think is surprising at its price point is the uncropped downsampled 4K60FPS, everything else is a major compromise IMO:

 

• No IBIS - That rules out most vloggers
• Tiny Battery - Anyone who already owns a Canon body will think twice about getting a new body that requires a different battery.
• Single card slot - understandable at this price point but IMO this single missing feature eliminates this camera from even being used as a B or C camera for paid work. 
• No Hybrid Hotshoe - Once again, understandable at this price point, but I would have thought Canon would standardize on that feature for all new bodies not to mention it might drive sales of Canon accessories.
• Price - This camera is definitely priced out of Canon Rebel territory, but it has the ergonomics of a Canon Rebel. Definitely better specs, but the same ergonomics. Combine that with expensive RF lenses or having to buy EF lenses and an adapter vs crop sensor lenses like the Canon Rebel and you have a rather expensive setup with tons of compromises.

Of course I am biased since I own (and love) my R7, but IMO if you are going with a Canon body at this price point the R7 is a way better value. The R8 makes you accept too many compromises just to say you have a FF sensor and to get non line skipped 4K60FPS.

Also, I agree with @Andrew Reid the ergonomics look pretty awful; the only thing that makes the R7 tolerable without the back wheel is the wheel around the joystick, even then I still wish the R7 had included the back wheel as well just to keep some consistency when paired with the R5.

BTW Canon is confusing me these days, it seems like no two bodies are even the same button layout. I think the wheel around the joystick is great and should have made an appearance with the R6II but it didn't. It would have also made the button layout of the R8 a bit more tolerable.

Needless to say, this is a big nope for me, but Canon being Canon, they will sell tons of these and convert tons more new buyers to their RF lenses. A body like this reminds me of printers; they get you with the rock bottom prices and loads of features....the sticker price comes later when you need to buy the ink. With this body they get you with the low price then you are stuck with either more compromises (buying "new" EF mount lenses), or they get you with the RF lens prices since I get the feeling that most buyers of this body won't already be in Canon's FF ecosystem.

[newfoundmass]

Canon is confusing because their releases can sometimes feel random. Releasing the R50 makes sense, since it's the uber low cost entry level camera that will get the normal user into the RF system. We all know people that are the R50's target audience. I really don't know though what the target audience for the R8 is, and if anything it feels like it's competing with Canon's own cameras, namely the R7. 

I've seen people repeat some variation of "they'll sell a ton of these" all over the place, but to who? This feels kind of like the replacement for the RP but did that camera really sell well? I don't know anyone that bought one. I feel like the R8 will be much the same. The R7 feels like a better overall option for people needing a b-cam for professionals or enthusiasts. Maybe it'll be useful as a permanent "studio" cam for Youtubers? But they don't need uncropped 4K60p for that anyway. 

[John Matthews]

The R8 really looks like a bare-bones FF camera with the main purpose of "buying FF". Also, you know when people actually get their hands on it, there will be some sort of gotcha with Canon. I'd never buy Canon after the BS R5 debacle.

I was looking at the high ISO raw files of the R6 ii (on DPREVIEW)... they only look about 1 stop better than older M43 cameras. Is it a Sony sensor?...I'm used to seeing much better high ISO performance.

[ac6000cw]

1 hour ago, John Matthews said:

I was looking at the high ISO raw files of the R6 ii (on DPREVIEW)... they only look about 1 stop better than older M43 cameras. Is it a Sony sensor?...I'm used to seeing much better high ISO performance.

AFAIK, it's a Canon designed and manufactured sensor.

According to the info here - https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-R6-Mark-II.aspx - it's front-side illuminated and non-stacked, so relatively 'old tech' in design terms.

[92F]

12 hours ago, Django said:

Oui, le matériel R8 n'est pas fou, mais rappelez-vous que le R6 avait le capteur 1DX3 et le R6ii amélioré et c'est ce que vous obtenez à l'intérieur du R8. Je trouve toujours assez fou que vous obteniez l'un des capteurs phares de Canon dans un appareil photo à 1 500 $. 

Neither back-illuminated nor stacked,